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Mar 25th, 2012
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1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? #7246627
08/06/18 12:45 PM
08/06/18 12:45 PM
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1. Ok what should I expect to pay to re-barrel my 700 5R from .223 to .223AI. I supply the barrel? I will buy it already deeply fluted.

2. Keeping the .20" barrel, even worth it?


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246633
08/06/18 12:53 PM
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Been answered 5 times before, and you have Tony's number.

bang



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246640
08/06/18 01:00 PM
08/06/18 01:00 PM
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Wow, I thought I was indecisive, Buzz you make me feel better about me! cheers


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Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
I dig the CHODE.

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246672
08/06/18 01:25 PM
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have we already talked about this, really? Hummm, I cant remember


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246678
08/06/18 01:28 PM
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My 223ai is 21 or so on length and pushes a 80gr vld at 2902fps.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246683
08/06/18 01:32 PM
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24"
80 gr ELD-M
3085 fps

Three shot group at 100 yards .062"



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246698
08/06/18 01:47 PM
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Twist for the .223AI ?
7 or 8?


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246700
08/06/18 01:50 PM
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Buzz, you really are a piece of work.

Barrel = 325 - 375
Chamber = 250 - 350 w/crown
Muzzle break = $35 from Harrells
Thread for muzzle break and blend to barrel = 75 - 150

Yes, we've been through this all before.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246704
08/06/18 01:57 PM
08/06/18 01:57 PM
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Unless your 5R won't shoot, you aren't going to gain enough making that change to make it worth your while. Sell the 5r for full value, buy a donor action, and build.


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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246705
08/06/18 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Twist for the .223AI ?
7 or 8?


Mine is 1:7.7

Spoke to Greg, at Bugholes.com about a 1:7. His take was, that would only be necessary for 90 gr Bergers (88 gr ELM-M had not been introduced yet). And if was going to run the 90's, I'd be top loading, only. He said everyone that tried 90's in a .223 A.I. went back to 80's so they could Mag (not clip) feed, and the 1:7.7 would do a fine job. He was right.



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246712
08/06/18 02:06 PM
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Mine is a 7 twist.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246721
08/06/18 02:11 PM
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How many fps does AI’ing a 223 really gain?

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246727
08/06/18 02:16 PM
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100-140fps depending.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: jeffbird] #7246732
08/06/18 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
How many fps does AI’ing a 223 really gain?




Heard of straight .223's (24") making an 80 gr go 2900 fps, and I think that's the top end. Nearly a 200 fps gain going A.I. I've also heard, in A.I. cartridges, the .223 yields the most gain in velocity.



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: dee] #7246736
08/06/18 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
100-140fps depending.


How so?

7mm-08 A.I. gained 120 fps with a 162 gr.



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: jeffbird] #7246745
08/06/18 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
How many fps does AI’ing a 223 really gain?

I don't think it matters to Buzz. He just needs a reason to spend $700 on this project. Of course, in about 3 hours he will be at the pool with his ladies and we will have this conversation tomorrow after the coffee helps his head. Didn't we already do this yesterday?

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: FiremanJG] #7246834
08/06/18 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: dee
100-140fps depending.


How so?

7mm-08 A.I. gained 120 fps with a 162 gr.


I meant just the 223 version. Each case will vary and parent case design will affect how much gain the Ackley form yields.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246871
08/06/18 03:54 PM
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Right. .223 seems to gain more than 100-140 fps, going to A.I.

Course, you and I are on different barrel lengths. So 100-200 fps would cover a broader spectrum. And this is only talking 80's. Drop down to a 55 gr and it'll be no telling how much faster.



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7246907
08/06/18 04:39 PM
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I'm a 223/223ai lover. My current .223 is a 26" Brux sending 82 bergers at around 2925 via 8208. My .223ai is 20", sending the same bullets at the same speed, suppressed. 75 gr SS2's are a touch slower, but just as accurate.

223ai is definitely worth it, and if your barrel is accurate, it is likely worth just re-cutting the chamber and cleaning up the crown and threads. Remington continues to have their heads in the clouds with twist rate, so going AI on your barrel MIGHT allow for you to shoot 75's more accurately. If not, pick a good barrel manufacturer and go from there. Tough to go wrong in today's barrel world.

223ai is a hot rod, and will smoke everything native to Texas...the upside is that you can pile primers for cheap, deal with no recoil, and it's just inherently stupid accurate. The downside is fireforming, and tweaking the mag box if your are gunning bdl bottom metal. Problem solved, and staying solved, with accurate mags and taking a dremel to the front lip. Feeds slick as snot.

Last edited by Ackley_improved; 08/06/18 04:40 PM.
Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: dee] #7246922
08/06/18 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: dee
100-140fps depending.


How so?

7mm-08 A.I. gained 120 fps with a 162 gr.


I meant just the 223 version. Each case will vary and parent case design will affect how much gain the Ackley form yields.


The more sloped the body of the case the more velocity will be picked up. IIRC for a 20 percent case volume increase exprct about 4 percent velocity increase, if you holding pressures the same.

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: kmon1] #7246952
08/06/18 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: dee
100-140fps depending.


How so?

7mm-08 A.I. gained 120 fps with a 162 gr.


I meant just the 223 version. Each case will vary and parent case design will affect how much gain the Ackley form yields.


The more sloped the body of the case the more velocity will be picked up. IIRC for a 20 percent case volume increase exprct about 4 percent velocity increase, if you holding pressures the same.


10% is what I added to the load, once formed, and it made 10% more speed.

24.6 gr made 2800 fps (fire forming) 113 fps/ per grain of powder.

26.4 gr makes 3085 fps. 116 fps/ per grain of powder.

The pressure increases once formed. I have not been able to get the pressure up, while fire forming, even on compressed powder charges. The brass is just flowing so far, dropping pressure.

Now, can a .223 chamber make more velocity than a fire forming .223 A.I. chamber? I think, yes it certainly will.

edit: 7mm-08 A.I. chamber fire forming 2700 fps.

Fire formed> 3.5% increase in charge =4% more velocity.

Last edited by FiremanJG; 08/06/18 05:29 PM.


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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7247013
08/06/18 05:58 PM
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Jason, I was not referring to a fire forming load in an AI chamber, but a standard 223 in a standard chamber and a 223AI in the 223AI chamber.

IE. if you shoot a 223 or 280 or what ever at X velocity and you cut that chamber to the AI version there is about a 4% increase in velocity for a 10% case capacity increase. Trying to remember where I picked up that little tidbit of Info and think it was in either one of the PO Aclkey or Ken Waters books I have read over the years.

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: kmon1] #7247082
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Originally Posted By: kmon1
Jason, I was not referring to a fire forming load in an AI chamber, but a standard 223 in a standard chamber and a 223AI in the 223AI chamber.

IE. if you shoot a 223 or 280 or what ever at X velocity and you cut that chamber to the AI version there is about a 4% increase in velocity for a 10% case capacity increase. Trying to remember where I picked up that little tidbit of Info and think it was in either one of the PO Aclkey or Ken Waters books I have read over the years.



I see.

I wouldn't doubt it. That would put the standard .223 making more speed, which it has to.



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Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Judd] #7247096
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Originally Posted By: Judd
Buzz, you really are a piece of work.

Barrel = 325 - 375
Chamber = 250 - 350 w/crown
Muzzle break = $35 from Harrells
Thread for muzzle break and blend to barrel = 75 - 150

Yes, we've been through this all before.


Seems like a giant waste of $700-900.

Re: 1.Rebarrel cost? 2.Worth it? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7247142
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink
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