Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Tranger03, Willie Beamin, Keifer20, robertnbryant, oldchief
64319 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 90,055
stxranchman 53,720
bill oxner 49,629
RKHarm24 44,577
rifleman 44,411
BMD 41,008
SnakeWrangler 39,422
Big Orn 37,484
txshntr 35,376
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics417,514
Posts6,070,275
Members64,319
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
21st centuy seating dies #7214173
07/02/18 11:02 PM
07/02/18 11:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
Anyone using the 21st century seating dies ($275)? To order you have to send 3 fired resized brass and the specific bullet to them so they can machine it from scratch. Thinking of trying a set but they're higher than GP.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214201
07/02/18 11:52 PM
07/02/18 11:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,539
Red River way
D
dee Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
dee  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
D

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,539
Red River way
Pretty sure my shooting skills don't require dies like that. My redding dies do great. Oal is solid and little to no runout.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214209
07/03/18 12:06 AM
07/03/18 12:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
My OCD gets the best of me sometimes. I'm using whidden dies which aren't cheap either, probably no better than redding.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214220
07/03/18 12:12 AM
07/03/18 12:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,539
Red River way
D
dee Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
dee  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
D

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,539
Red River way
Eh. Which whidden's? I've heard a lot of hit and miss with their seaters. I can't personally say I have experience with them as I've only used their sizing die.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: dee] #7214256
07/03/18 12:45 AM
07/03/18 12:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
FL bushing sizing die and the seating die. Never had and issue with the seating die.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214276
07/03/18 01:06 AM
07/03/18 01:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,633
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Online content
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Online Content
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,633
Wolfe City, TX
Are the seating dies you're using not working?

No offense, I don't mean this rude. There's a mindset some people get into of chasing gear, just because it is new. I know plenty of guys that buy a scope each year, right after SHOT. Then in several months sell it (at a loss) and get something else.

I have no doubt there are some hand loaders, using 50 year old equipment that are making ammo better than some of the new guys using the "latest and greatest".



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: FiremanJG] #7214344
07/03/18 02:42 AM
07/03/18 02:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
Fire away Fireman, I got thick skin.........Depends on what you call problems, there is acute run out with the whidden seating die but not enough for the occasional hand loader to stress over. I know two people I absolutely trust that use Wilson seating dies in a arbor press the claim there is zero run out, the 21st century look similar or are the same except there custom made for your brass and bullet. I was curious if anyone used them yet to get some reviews/feedback. I'm usually not a impulse buyer but guilty of researching the hell out of something before I buy it.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214367
07/03/18 03:07 AM
07/03/18 03:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,258
Wylie, TX
J
Judd Online content
THF Celebrity
Judd  Online Content
THF Celebrity
J

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,258
Wylie, TX
Only way I'd spend that type of dough on is Newlon, they are supposed to be the best.

If you like 21st Century buy the hydraulic arbor press and Wilson dies...they make blanks so you run your chamber reamer in them...then they are all cut by the same thing.

I can attest, your buddies are right.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214502
07/03/18 01:05 PM
07/03/18 01:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,072
Ft. Worth
G
garyrapp55 Offline
Pro Tracker
garyrapp55  Offline
Pro Tracker
G

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,072
Ft. Worth
I wasn't going to comment due to my limited experience but I'll say this, I wouldn't want to spend that $ and be limited to that bullet. I'm not sure how they customize to a specific bullet anyway. Why can't it seat others? I do like the idea of a competition seater with the micrometer on top but I can get one for a lot less than $275. That said, now that I got the seating stem in the right place and locked tight for my newest rifle, adjust-ability is worthless unless I change bullets.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214510
07/03/18 01:11 PM
07/03/18 01:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,633
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Online content
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Online Content
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,633
Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: spg
Fire away Fireman, I got thick skin.........Depends on what you call problems, there is acute run out with the whidden seating die but not enough for the occasional hand loader to stress over. I know two people I absolutely trust that use Wilson seating dies in a arbor press the claim there is zero run out, the 21st century look similar or are the same except there custom made for your brass and bullet. I was curious if anyone used them yet to get some reviews/feedback. I'm usually not a impulse buyer but guilty of researching the hell out of something before I buy it.


Have you tried, seating completely, rotate the brass 180° or less, then seat again? I have never measured run-out. I don't want to know, my ammo shoots great.

Researching the hell out of something, before buying is what smart, responsible adults do. I won't ever fault someone for that.



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214584
07/03/18 03:00 PM
07/03/18 03:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,453
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,453
The vast majority of my ammo usually is 0.003" or less, and when I really take time and effort to focus on ammo to produce the best I can, it is 0.001" or less. I use RCBS Rockchuckers. The newest press is 15 years old, the oldest is 40+ years old. Forster non-bushing sizing and the Benchrest seater dies are my first choice, but also have a couple of Redding non-bushing dies that work well. The bushing dies never could consistently reduce runout down to the level the non-bushing dies can for me. Forster non-bushing dies seem to produce better results as a general rule. I have never had a bad Forster die. Also Forster's decapper produces lower runout than the Redding decapper as a general rule.

Dies are 1/3 of the equation in reducing runout and cannot cure issues that are created by the press or the brass prep.

For a press such as a RCBS or similar single stage, remove the wire on the ram that retains the shellholder. The shellholder does not need anything to stay in place and allowing it to free float can significantly reduce runout. The next point that benefits from attention is the die/press interface. Create a gasket between the lock ring and the top of the press. A couple of pieces of clear packing tape with the hole cutout in the middle works well and is quick, cheap, and easy. Last, when putting the die in, remove the decapping assembly from the die. If it is the first time to adjust the die, loosen the lock ring and back it up out of the way so it will not make contact. Then, put a washer or coin on top of the shellholder. Screw the die down to according to the manufacturer instructions. Then gently raise the ram so that the washer or coin puts gentle upward pressure on the die, then screw the lock ring down securely against the gasket - secure does not mean lots of pressure, just snug it down. Lube a fired case and run the fired shell into the die without the decapping assembly. Check the runout on the case neck. Adjusting and tightening the die is a real point for runout gremlins to cause trouble and can take several tries before the die is in the press straight. Seriously, if runout is still occurring at this point, back the die out a turn or two and try again, and keep trying for several attempts. I have spent an hour at this point until the runout was down to less than 0.001". Once the die is correctly adjusted and the lock ring is in place, then the next time is usually quicker, but this step is critical to reducing runout.

Once the runout is down to acceptable levels without the decapping assembly, then put the decapping assembly in, but leave it loose, not tight in the die. I slip an auto a/c o-ring over the decapping assembly so that there is a gasket between the top of the die and the bottom of the nut that holds the decapping assembly. The ability for the decapping assembly to free float helps reduce runout. The Forster decapper causes less runout for me than Redding decappers.

Before dropping a lot of money on more custom dies, it might be worth giving the Forster dies a try. Go for the basic resizing die and the Benchrest seater.

Then brass prep is the other 1/3 of the equation. The amount of time I spend on brass prep is substantial and a thread unto itself.

Forster presses have a good reputation for reducing runout without as much work as the RCBS. If I ever buy another press, Forster would be the next one.

I have Wilson seater dies and an arbor press and it is no better than the Forster dies on the RCBS. Now I only use it at the range to adjust seating depth. Just an observation that kind of fits with the discussion.

Hope some of the helps you and/or others.


Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214594
07/03/18 03:21 PM
07/03/18 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,197
southern OK
O
OkieDokie Online happy
Pro Tracker
OkieDokie  Online Happy
Pro Tracker
O

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,197
southern OK
Thanks Jeff Bird. That's some very interesting info. up Lots to think about. I have an RCBS Press and didn't think about letting the shell holder float on ram but that makes sense.
I don't even have a way of measuring run out and like Fireman I probably don't want to go there as long as it's shooting well.


Maybe Today.
raptureready.com
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7214645
07/03/18 04:17 PM
07/03/18 04:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,453
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,453
You're welcome.


Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: jeffbird] #7215404
07/04/18 04:03 AM
07/04/18 04:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
I concur..........I use a FL bushing die and had some issues with the bushing I'd been using over 500+ rounds which isn't a lot. It started leaving striations on the necks, the entire neck (360deg) so I ordered a new one and the striations stopped but the same size new bushing wasn't sizing the neck enough. I sent it back to Whidden and they sent me another in the same size and I bought one a size smaller, the 2nd exact size bushing I got back worked. The original got scratched somehow however, I inspected it under a magnified glass and still couldn't see any scratches. Next time I have an issue with the bushing I'm buying a regular FL die.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7215887
07/04/18 07:58 PM
07/04/18 07:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,860
In the Right lane
D
DStroud Online content
Pro Tracker
DStroud  Online Content
Pro Tracker
D

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,860
In the Right lane
Yep have a couple of bushing die sets but between donuts and no better results than FL dies I go the custom FL die now.... rather have a Lee collet than a bushing die.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: DStroud] #7215898
07/04/18 08:29 PM
07/04/18 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,796
Texas
kmon1 Online shocked
junior
kmon1  Online Shocked
junior

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,796
Texas
Originally Posted By: DStroud
Yep have a couple of bushing die sets but between donuts and no better results than FL dies I go the custom FL die now.... rather have a Lee collet than a bushing die.


I also like he Lee Collet die they work well. Haven't but thinking about ordering a couple custom collet dies from Lee

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7216130
07/05/18 01:14 AM
07/05/18 01:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,500
C
Cleric Online content
Extreme Tracker
Cleric  Online Content
Extreme Tracker
C

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,500
My question on runout is how much variation is there in the case thickness?

Also does it really matter? The bullet is held by the brass, then wouldn’t the jump to the bore allow it to center where it needs to?

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: Cleric] #7216153
07/05/18 01:56 AM
07/05/18 01:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
I imagine if you can measure 0 run out the thickness of the brass is the same throughout the brass, that's my thinking.

Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg] #7216192
07/05/18 03:15 AM
07/05/18 03:15 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
S
spg Offline OP
Pro Tracker
spg  Offline OP
Pro Tracker
S

Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,746
I turn the necks on my .284 lapua brass, and ream the inside but its not just for hunting. The main reason I do this is because I neck up new brass from 6.5 to 7mm with a mandrel, that process I've tested a thousand times and it causes inconsistencies in neck thickness. Turning the necks is a on one time thing unless I start getting donuts which is common after 6+ or so firings. Its almost impossible to see by eye but if you measure close to the shoulder neck junction you can detect it. For this particular round I have a specific neck turning tool that's stays locked on the same setting.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread


© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
UBB.threads™ 7.6.2