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Mar 25th, 2012
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Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types #7190838
06/07/18 04:16 AM
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I working up dual loads for my 30 Nos ó 215 Bergers and 200 A Frames.

Iíve heard the Swiftís foul worse/different because of pure copper jacket. Will shooting the bergers and then Swiftís without cleaning the barrel affect the accuracy when I go back to shooting bergers or vice versa?

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7190905
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Could. There's no guarantee though.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7190910
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If I will be using a different bullet, I always clean the barrel out squeaky clean before shooting, then shoot 5 foulers before trying out a different load. Eliminates one the variables if accuracy is not up to par.

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7190968
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It all depends on the rifle and load. I have seen some were switching between Swifts and other bullets were no problem and others where it was a problem. this might be a case where the powders like the new line from IMR Enduron with the copper fouling eraser can help. I know on one rifle of mine using Hodgdon CFE made a difference in accuracy across copper bullet to gilding metal and back improved accuracy

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7191196
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Why two different loads?



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7191209
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Why two different loads?


For my trip to S Africa óthey donít like bergers much over there and said their hunters have had less than stellar performance on the big plains game critters at close range even with the 215. I need a stout bonded bullet for 0-300 yds and will use the 215 for extended range

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7191231
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I'd just run the A-frames for everything.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7191283
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Originally Posted By: RedSnake
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Why two different loads?


For my trip to S Africa óthey donít like bergers much over there and said their hunters have had less than stellar performance on the big plains game critters at close range even with the 215. I need a stout bonded bullet for 0-300 yds and will use the 215 for extended range


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7191387
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Originally Posted By: RedSnake
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Why two different loads?


For my trip to S Africa óthey donít like bergers much over there and said their hunters have had less than stellar performance on the big plains game critters at close range even with the 215. I need a stout bonded bullet for 0-300 yds and will use the 215 for extended range


I've killed probably 50 head of plains game over there. Your shots are not likely to be much more than 150 yards. Those super skinny/high BC bullets are pretty useless over there IME. I've used mostly accubonds, and a few partitions for all of them.

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: Jgraider] #7191540
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Did you ever try any Berger VLDs on animals there? Or anywhere?



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7191695
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In turn, have you tried the A frames there? The PHís apparently think itís a better alternative.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: redchevy] #7191785
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
In turn, have you tried the A frames there? The PHís apparently think itís a better alternative.



Nope.

Won't opine on them, because of that.

I will not believe EVERY animal on the African continent is "tougher" than EVERY animal on the North American continent. Having said that, this belief that Berger Hunting bullets are not really hunting bullets is asinine. And that is not an accusation toward anyone in particular. Plenty of big animals have been taken via Bergers, close and long range alike.



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7193311
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There are PHís in Africa that donít even think Partitions are tough enough to suit them. Itís a whole Ďnother world over there. A bulletís only requirement is to kill as fast as possible. Many probably couldnít tell you what BC is. Itís irrelevent to them. So, no, they arenít going to want anyone using Bergers. Thatís just not their idea of a hunting bullet. A-frames and solids rule that land.

Sure, you could use multiple loads, and some use a couple, but why would you want or need more than two when you arenít shooting that far, anyway? Itís best to keep it simple. The PHís know this. They not only make a living out of it, but they preserve their own hide while doing it.

Bergerís have their place in the hunting world. I just canít make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: Sneaky] #7193401
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Bergerís have their place in the hunting world. I just canít make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.


Open plains game. Nothing but grass, wind, and distance.

Pure speculation on my part.



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7193604
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Bergerís have their place in the hunting world. I just canít make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.


Open plains game. Nothing but grass, wind, and distance.

Pure speculation on my part.


Same here. Iím just going off of what Iíve read.

I bet theyíd do fine on most plains game, but some of the larger critters have a reputation for shrugging off all but the toughest bullets. Those PHís donít like to take risks, however minimal they may be, especially when they donít know just how skilled their client may or may not be.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: Sneaky] #7193619
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Bergerís have their place in the hunting world. I just canít make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.


Open plains game. Nothing but grass, wind, and distance.

Pure speculation on my part.


Same here. Iím just going off of what Iíve read.

I bet theyíd do fine on most plains game, but some of the larger critters have a reputation for shrugging off all but the toughest bullets. Those PHís donít like to take risks, however minimal they may be, especially when they donít know just how skilled their client may or may not be.


This will get me flamed. From observation, some that will speak very poorly of Bergers are poor shooters, and/or watched poor shooters try and use them. The old Rem Core Lokt is a great expanding bullet, and what I've seen is the ammo is 8" at 100 yards. Sure it expands reliably, but where in the hell are they going to go?

Is that better than the precisely placed, hand loaded Berger? As far as I'm concerned, no.



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7193623
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Let me clarify. I will be loading 200 AF for Africa as most shots will be 100 yds with a 400 yd being uncommon due to the habitat where Iíll be going. And I have a load for the 215 Bergers that I have worked up for hunting for N American big game and long range steel.

I found a good load for the Berger then worked up the AF load, but when I went back to the Berger it wouldnít group for sh!t. Feel like Iím chasing my tail.

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7193631
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Did you clean, and re-foul in between?



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7193688
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Did you clean, and re-foul in between?


No. Thatís why I was asking.

Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7193703
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Bergerís have their place in the hunting world. I just canít make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.


Open plains game. Nothing but grass, wind, and distance.

Pure speculation on my part.


Same here. Iím just going off of what Iíve read.

I bet theyíd do fine on most plains game, but some of the larger critters have a reputation for shrugging off all but the toughest bullets. Those PHís donít like to take risks, however minimal they may be, especially when they donít know just how skilled their client may or may not be.


This will get me flamed. From observation, some that will speak very poorly of Bergers are poor shooters, and/or watched poor shooters try and use them. The old Rem Core Lokt is a great expanding bullet, and what I've seen is the ammo is 8" at 100 yards. Sure it expands reliably, but where in the hell are they going to go?

Is that better than the precisely placed, hand loaded Berger? As far as I'm concerned, no.


I donít doubt that, at all.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: RedSnake] #7193704
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Originally Posted By: RedSnake
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Did you clean, and re-foul in between?


No. Thatís why I was asking.


Change bullet, change powder, clean in between. Once cleaned, and shooting the next load, foul, zero, and obtain DOPE for that load.



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7193809
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
The old Rem Core Lokt is a great expanding bullet, and what I've seen is the ammo is 8" at 100 yards. Sure it expands reliably, but where in the hell are they going to go?

Is that better than the precisely placed, hand loaded Berger? As far as I'm concerned, no.


8" at a 100 yards? I've never seen that. I've always had good luck with the cheap flat based factory ammo before I started reloading. I've never used Bergers but I'm sure they will work just fine. I think any 200+ grain 30 caliber hunting bullet will easily kill plains game from a 30 Nosler. That momentum is going to be hard to stop in an animal.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: scottfromdallas] #7193815
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I said that because that is what happened when a customer brought then out. He shot 60 Winchester 180 gr Power Points. Then switched to 180 gr Rem Core Lokt. I told him the scope would need to be zeroed for that ammo, but give it a few shots to see how it groups. 1 and 2 were within an inch of each other. Shot three literally was 8" left and 2" low. We had just checked all the screws' torque, and he didn't mess up the shot that bad, he had already hit everything out to 800. I've NEVER seen that crap shoot consistent in any rifle.

Buuuut....

back



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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: FiremanJG] #7193821
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I haven't used it in years so I will take your word for it. I get in arguments with my buddy about things all the time. His hunting experience was 20 years ago so he argues from that point of view. I have to remind him that some brands that were bad 20 years ago are good and some that were good back then aren't that great.


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Re: Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types [Re: scottfromdallas] #7193866
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I concur.

Bushnell was WalMart optics 20 years ago. Surw they still have some that level, and they now have some that can hang with the big boys in clearity, and tracking. Just as an example of what you're saying.



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