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Mar 25th, 2012
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Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing #7177120
05/23/18 12:36 AM
05/23/18 12:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 13,289
Colleyville, DFW, TX
jeh7mmmag Offline OP
gramps
jeh7mmmag  Offline OP
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Colleyville, DFW, TX
This hog control method could have been the ruin of lot of Quail, Dove, and other game birds, etc. Lucky it was caught in early trails





Quote:
Field testing of a new feral hog control method experienced a major setback recently after nearly 200 birds were found dead.
During a regular agricultural extension report to Wichita County Commissioners, extension agent David Graf reported the issue at a study underway in an undisclosed North Texas location.
Hog-Gone, with active ingredient sodium nitrite, was thought to be the next great hope for feral hog control.

More:
https://www.timesrecordnews.com/story/ne...exas/629868002/


ďEverybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in,
where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.Ē
~ John Muir
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177222
05/23/18 02:10 AM
05/23/18 02:10 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,872
Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Wow. They said it was safe. They said there was no way for other animals to get into the feeders.


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177287
05/23/18 03:38 AM
05/23/18 03:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 90,532
Abilene or on the road...
dogcatcher Offline
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Abilene or on the road...
That is no good, bad news and still no answer. bang


Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________



Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177301
05/23/18 03:56 AM
05/23/18 03:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 960
maximus_flavius Online content
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maximus_flavius  Online Content
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I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177302
05/23/18 03:58 AM
05/23/18 03:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 257
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DUKFVR Online content
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Never a fan of using any kind of poison.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177339
05/23/18 10:24 AM
05/23/18 10:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 784
San Antonio
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RattlesnakeDan Online content
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And few hogs were killed by it because they won't eat the stuff. What some of us already knew would happen and mentioned earlier. Hogs are perceptive to bad situations.


Just like Jesus, sometimes you gotta kill some hogs.
bigtextrailerworld.com/sanantonio
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177364
05/23/18 11:45 AM
05/23/18 11:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,246
Corsicana
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Dang. I was afraid of that.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: maximus_flavius] #7177388
05/23/18 12:19 PM
05/23/18 12:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 44,071
Metroplex
BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.


Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177427
05/23/18 12:54 PM
05/23/18 12:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,951
CEDAR CREEK LAKE
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No real surprise. Was a bad idea from the start.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out.
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7177489
05/23/18 01:57 PM
05/23/18 01:57 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,872
Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.


Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.



After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters?????

Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas?

They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die?


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177497
05/23/18 02:03 PM
05/23/18 02:03 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,921
Flower Mound, TX
CharlieCTx Offline
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"The initial goal was to have the sodium nitrite bait registered for use with the EPA by 2020-21."

A "few" bird deaths won't stop the current EPA Administrator from approving it.


Charlie

M&P-10 + AAC Cyclone
Kel-Tec RFB + Griffin Sportsman Ultra Light 300
Pulsar Apex XQ-50
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177529
05/23/18 02:24 PM
05/23/18 02:24 PM
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mattyg06 Offline
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Well it was within described tolerances so whats to worry about? confused2


Quote:
While the number of birds taken is within the tolerances described within the environmental assessment, it is not acceptable to us as wildlife biologists,

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177540
05/23/18 02:32 PM
05/23/18 02:32 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 960
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I'd rather get rid of hogs the old fashioned way, with lead poisoning.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7177550
05/23/18 02:41 PM
05/23/18 02:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 44,071
Metroplex
BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.


Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.



After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters?????

Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas?

They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die?


200 over 14 sites. Being that invasive sparrow densities are extremely high itís not that surprising.

I image thier studies areas are pretty big. Being that it killed those itty bitty birds that quickly, probably not to many fly away out of control area.

Interesting study, be cool to see the results and changes.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7177662
05/23/18 04:35 PM
05/23/18 04:35 PM
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jeffbird Online content
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
I knew it.

It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.


Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.



After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters?????

Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas?

They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die?


200 over 14 sites. Being that invasive sparrow densities are extremely high itís not that surprising.

I image thier studies areas are pretty big. Being that it killed those itty bitty birds that quickly, probably not to many fly away out of control area.

Interesting study, be cool to see the results and changes.



Bobo,

there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.

English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.

So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.

The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177664
05/23/18 04:36 PM
05/23/18 04:36 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,872
Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Still, I am not buying it. This was the first actual field testing and it produced a significant negative result.

I notice that the article failed to state the number of hogs killed or methods of searching for dead birds. It says the birds were just found in the immediate feeder area.

This is also a rather disturbing statement.

Quote:
The study found success in keeping most non-target animals out of the feeder and they also showed animals who feed off the carcasses of hogs who ingest Hog-Gone were not negatively impacted.


In other words, the system isn't as hog-specific as it was designed to be.

If they are still using the same setup as they were a few months ago, it involves a process of teaching the hogs how to use the feeders and then pulling bait and switch on the hogs, literally, and then killing the educated hogs. Then the user is left with a feeder living hogs don't know how to use and the process must start anew.


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177685
05/23/18 04:55 PM
05/23/18 04:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 44,071
Metroplex
BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird


Bobo,

there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.

English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.

So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.

The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.



Rarely? Seen them throughout the countryside. End of the day thatís 14 birds per site, that not what most would call an enviomental disaster, probably doesnít even move the needle much as far as impact.
Like I said be interesting to see the tweeks and all the info once published.

Pointed articles with limited info on ongoing scientific studies really do both sides a disfavor. As seen in this thread already

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177706
05/23/18 05:18 PM
05/23/18 05:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,895
Big D
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Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: Txduckman] #7177772
05/23/18 06:05 PM
05/23/18 06:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
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Metroplex
BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly.


Donít mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that

There is no effective solution at this time. Large crop areas are actually better suited for Aerial management practices. Gun/archery ground hunting is not effective thatís for sure.

Iíd like to seen them completely removed from landscape,

The way they have to deliver the poison isnít the answer, if you have to deliver it from a feeder then you can use a drop trap. Just a lazier way of doing it

I do want to see the studies run thier course. Findings will be interesting

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7177778
05/23/18 06:13 PM
05/23/18 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: jeffbird


Bobo,

there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.

English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.

So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.

The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.



Rarely? Seen them throughout the countryside. End of the day thatís 14 birds per site, that not what most would call an enviomental disaster, probably doesnít even move the needle much as far as impact.
Like I said be interesting to see the tweeks and all the info once published.

Pointed articles with limited info on ongoing scientific studies really do both sides a disfavor. As seen in this thread already


Bobo,

can you differentiate the field marks for House Sparrows, Black-throated, Field, Clay-colored, Dickcissels, Harris' Sparrow, White-crowned, White-throated, and House Finches, to list just a few similar species?

House Sparrows are rarely found away from human structures and habitation, and very rarely in wildland areas typically inhabited by feral hogs.

14 birds per site over a short time frame is a major impact, if scaled up to a statewide level for years.

Imagine if it was 14 Bobwhite Quail killed per site in a matter of weeks, then multiple that across the state for years.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177790
05/23/18 06:26 PM
05/23/18 06:26 PM
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Posts: 44,071
Metroplex
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I can identify a few by name but not all. I can tell which ones arenít male House/common sparrow
blk throat has a distinct blk throat and white lines on head
Harrisís just move blk throat over the head
Diskcissel is a mini horned lark with the yellow on head

House sparrows have been invading my tractor cab AC vents for years,

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177813
05/23/18 06:44 PM
05/23/18 06:44 PM
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Define short time frame, 171 birds in a week, month, 5 months?? I may be wrong but I didnít see where the article stated a time frame.

Why I hate pointed articles.


Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177909
05/23/18 07:53 PM
05/23/18 07:53 PM
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In Mississippi at the moment, the opine of the wildlife department hee on the hog poison

Quote:
The Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks (MDWFP) is dedicated to finding new and effective tools to control wild hog populations throughout our state. One of these tools might one day include a poison that can be safely and ethically placed on the landscape. However, the concerns brought about by this product (Kaput) are too grave to overlook. Therefore, the MDWFP does not endorse and will not use this product. As stewards of the lands of Mississippi, we must always strive to make decisions based on their overall impact to the natural environment.

As the great naturalist Aldo Leopold once said ďA thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.Ē


http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Chemical-Weapons.pdf

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeh7mmmag] #7177917
05/23/18 08:04 PM
05/23/18 08:04 PM
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Bobo,

I am trying to track down a copy of the actual study.

Will post it if I obtain a copy.

Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing [Re: jeffbird] #7177925
05/23/18 08:10 PM
05/23/18 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Bobo,

I am trying to track down a copy of the actual study.

Will post it if I obtain a copy.


Thatís what Iím talking about cheers

Thank you, look forward to a good interesting read.

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