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Mar 25th, 2012
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Creedmoor Tune-Up #7172911
05/18/18 09:25 AM
05/18/18 09:25 AM
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Still working on a load for my Savage 6.5 Creedmoor. This one is 40.0 grains of H4350 W/ Hornaday 143 grain ELDX bullets. Shot at 10:30 in 7 ring was a fouling shot after a bore clean with bore snake.



Last edited by DH3; 05/18/18 09:26 AM.
Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7172951
05/18/18 11:36 AM
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Need way more powder charge. 42.0 to 43.0 gr.

And if you want to clean it, use a good solvent and patches.

Last edited by FiremanJG; 05/18/18 11:38 AM.


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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: FiremanJG] #7172999
05/18/18 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Need way more powder charge. 42.0 to 43.0 gr.

And if you want to clean it, use a good solvent and patches.

You need to know that I have tried "Way more powder" with little success. As I reduce the load, I see an improvement (reduction) in group size. Where I hunt ( my ranch) the longest shot that I have to take is 143 yards so I am not concerned about the slightly reduced velocity.
FWIW, 143 grains of H4350 is bordering on a max load and even if I used it, I would not post that advice for liability reasons.
A good bore snake with some Kroil cleans a barrel to my satisfaction.

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173004
05/18/18 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: DH3
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Need way more powder charge. 42.0 to 43.0 gr.

And if you want to clean it, use a good solvent and patches.


FWIW, 143 grains of H4350 is bordering on a max load and even if I used it, I would not post that advice for liability reasons.



What reloading guide listed 143 grs as a max load ???

lol35


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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173021
05/18/18 01:21 PM
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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173063
05/18/18 02:08 PM
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DH3, what does your chrono say?

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173081
05/18/18 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: DH3
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Need way more powder charge. 42.0 to 43.0 gr.

And if you want to clean it, use a good solvent and patches.

You need to know that I have tried "Way more powder" with little success. As I reduce the load, I see an improvement (reduction) in group size. Where I hunt ( my ranch) the longest shot that I have to take is 143 yards so I am not concerned about the slightly reduced velocity.
FWIW, 143 grains of H4350 is bordering on a max load and even if I used it, I would not post that advice for liability reasons.
A good bore snake with some Kroil cleans a barrel to my satisfaction.


I wasn't talking about speed, I was talking about a tighter group.

But since you're putting Kroil in your barrel, that tells me to leave you to your devices.

That is what is causing it to shoot so poorly.



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: Pig_Popper] #7173083
05/18/18 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pig_Popper
Originally Posted By: DH3
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Need way more powder charge. 42.0 to 43.0 gr.

And if you want to clean it, use a good solvent and patches.


FWIW, 143 grains of H4350 is bordering on a max load and even if I used it, I would not post that advice for liability reasons.



What reloading guide listed 143 grs as a max load ???

lol35


That would be a way hot load in a 375 Chey-Tac. peep



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173093
05/18/18 02:32 PM
05/18/18 02:32 PM
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FJG, not sure of your reference to Kroil being "bad" for a barrel? It's the best penetrataing oil on the planet. I use Kroil first (when I decide to clean) to clean carbon first, then I attack copper with Wipe-Out.

Why is Kroil a negative?

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173095
05/18/18 02:36 PM
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Midway USA says

“Kano Kroil Penetrating Oil and Bore Cleaning Solvent is the oil that creeps. Kroil is used by the most accuracy-obsessed benchrest shooters to keep their barrels clean. Kroil creeps below the fouling in your barrel, allowing you to knock it out easily with a patch or brush. For best results when working with rusted or frozen gun parts, allow 24 hours for Kroil to penetrate.”

4.9 stars out of 5 with 240+ reviews....


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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173096
05/18/18 02:36 PM
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143 grains? You got a plastic surgeon on speed dial?

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: Jgraider] #7173097
05/18/18 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
FJG, not sure of your reference to Kroil being "bad" for a barrel? It's the best penetrataing oil on the planet. I use Kroil first (when I decide to clean) to clean carbon first, then I attack copper with Wipe-Out.

Why is Kroil a negative?


Any oil in a barrel is a no-no. Some guys store a rifle for many months with oil in the barrel to prevent rust. Makes total sense. But it had better be removed before shooting the rifle, or the rifle will shoot like crap. Solvent soak, dry patches, until clean. It may take several soaks of solvent to get it out. A barrel needs to be completely free of any solvent, oil, water, anything liquid.



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173113
05/18/18 02:54 PM
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Gotcha, and I agree completely. I assumed everyone shoots with an oil free barrel, hench the fouling shots?

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173114
05/18/18 02:57 PM
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I took it to mean he applied Kroil to the bore snake, and the snake through, and shot the rifle.

That's a recipe to turn a sub 1 MOA rifle (which a Savage should be) into a much greater than 1 MOA rifle, which this one is.



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173149
05/18/18 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: DH3
A good bore snake with some Kroil cleans a barrel to my satisfaction.


Oh, [censored]! No way Jose! I could tell you some nightmares about Kroil! Yes, it is a freakin' awesome heavily penetrating oil. It's like WD-40 on steroids. But it is NOT an item to be used inside a barrel to get consistency in shooting. If you put that crap in a barrel, it will take you MANY MANY MANY (did I say many) rounds to foul that barrel back in before you will have any consistency inside the barrel. You are adding a super slick oil inside the barrel that the bullet slides on. Plus, from round 1 to round 10-20 will have totally different friction inside the barrel. I would clean the snot out of that barrel with a major cleaning agent, and start over. And I'm not even to the powder and load info yet!



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173151
05/18/18 03:27 PM
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Here's my famous post about oil in the barrel. Please read it to understand it, and ask me any questions afterwards. Let's address the main elephant in the room first, then get to the fine tune details of the ammo.

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4661544/1/Rifle_Cleaning_for_deer_season



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173153
05/18/18 03:29 PM
05/18/18 03:29 PM
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Ya'll are not going to reason with this guy or teach him anything. He does the same thing on every post. Go back and read his last 10 posts and see what I mean.


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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173155
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I respectfully disagree Chad, as it hasn't been my experience at all, but hey...... 1 fouling shot at most IME, and very often I don't see any difference it "fouler" and the rest of the group. I always use Wipe Out afterwards though, so maybe this has something to do with it. Truth be known, I don't clean my barrels very often anyway, and they're all treated with Dyna Tek Bore Coat.

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: Jgraider] #7173173
05/18/18 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
I respectfully disagree Chad, as it hasn't been my experience at all, but hey...... 1 fouling shot at most IME, and very often I don't see any difference it "fouler" and the rest of the group. I always use Wipe Out afterwards though, so maybe this has something to do with it. Truth be known, I don't clean my barrels very often anyway, and they're all treated with Dyna Tek Bore Coat.


After cleaning the barrel, my 6.5 Bartlein shoots like sh!+ for 15-20 rounds. Once it's fouled in, it goes back to .3s.


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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173175
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If you use Wipe Out after the Kroil, then you are cleaning out the Kroil. The Wipe Out will break down the oils and flush it out. Kroil is very good at cleaning and lubricating steel for protection. It's super slick. But it's not a good product to have inside your barrel for consistency.

I had a good buddy give me some of it to try on my competition rifle. I used it as a cleaner. I cleaned it good after a match. Later on, I wiped it with dry patches, and started shooting my rifle again. The rifle was always a one hole gun at 100. For 10+ rounds I couldn't get it dialed in again for anything. And my velocity numbers were off with high extreme spreads (I chrono everything I shoot). I shot it and shot it, and it finally came around. I spoke to someone else about the Kroil, and they had the same results. I read more about Kroil and realized it is not a good product for inside rifle barrels when shooting for consistency. Yes, it's a great protecting oil. But it's not a product to keep a consistent group or consistent velocity numbers in your rifle. If all you need is a bullet inside of a few inches at 100 yards, it will work. But if you are trying to shrink groups and get good consistency, this product will hold you back from those results. Just my 2cents



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173179
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These are rotated 90°

Factory Tikka barrel, re-chambered for 7mm-08 A.I.
Gunslick bore cleaning solvent, 15 minute soak. 12 passes of dry patches until a clean patch.







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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173187
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Now on the powder charges, there is always multiple accuracy nodes to be found with a certain combination of powder and bullet. When Hornady used to load their factory ammo with H4350, they wrote 41.9 grains on the box with a 140 grain. They later reduced it to 41.5 grains. It ran about 2650 fps. At 40.0 grains, you will be about 130 fps slower than that. Probably around 2520 fps. That's pretty slow for a 140 grain out of a CM. But, your brass will last a long time. There is an accuracy node on the higher end where Fireman mentioned, if you want more speed that the CM is capable of.



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Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173189
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Very nice, but you cheated.........Tikka.

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173472
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If cleaning a barrel is bad, why do benchrest shooters clean their barrels every 10 rounds or so?? Educate the unwashed please...

Re: Creedmoor Tune-Up [Re: DH3] #7173623
05/18/18 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: DH3
If cleaning a barrel is bad, why do benchrest shooters clean their barrels every 10 rounds or so?? Educate the unwashed please...


They have the time.

I've spent weekends competing, firing 300 rounds for points. If someone played a joke, and cleaned another shooter's barrel when he wasn't looking, the guy that did the cleaning could expect a broken nose over it, possibly.

Point being, clean barrels don't keep shooting well for very long. There's a clean zero, a clean POI for a certain number of shots, then it changes and stabilizes for X number of shots. Talking to Judd (BR shooter) his barrels, and his gunsmith's machining technique is exactly the same as mine. Judd is running a BR stock, and a way different action, that shaves another 1/8 MOA+ off what mine can do. But he's got the time to clean between a relays, I do not.

The barrel crosses a hump getting fouled in, the holds true for a certain number of rounds. That number is load, bullet, powder charge, barrel length specific, and it varies rifle to rifle. The barrel I have that likes to be cleaned the most often is a 7mm-08 A.I. on a button rifled Tikka barrel. It starts to open up around 50 rounds. But I have several cut rifled barrels that keep shooting exactly where I tell them for 200 to 400 rounds, depending on what I listed above.



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