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Mar 25th, 2012
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What do you want to know about Ammo? #7167037
05/11/18 05:10 PM
05/11/18 05:10 PM
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ChadTRG42 Offline OP
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Many shooters have a lot of questions about the different parts of ammunition. I get asked questions all the time! I want to put a blog up on my website answering any questions shooters have about ammunition. Questions from easy to advanced. The first topic I want to go over is all about gun powder.

Topics I'd like to discuss:

-Ammo loaded single stage versus a progressive machine and the differences between the two.
-"My rifle doesn't like this bullet" fallacy.
-powder selection for a specific caliber and bullet
-Primers- info on various primers
-Powder scales


So, what questions do you have that would be good topics to answer?

Thanks!!



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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167042
05/11/18 05:11 PM
05/11/18 05:11 PM
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How can I get my .22lr to hit at 1 1/2 Miles, like they claim? popcorn



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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167056
05/11/18 05:26 PM
05/11/18 05:26 PM
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I think a good place to start would be how to choose burn rate. That's pretty basic.




I'm here to give and receive knowledge, not affirmation or adoration. If you don't like it, mierda dura. Intellectual honesty is not for fragile egos.
Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167107
05/11/18 06:21 PM
05/11/18 06:21 PM
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Here's what I am thinking for my first post:

All about gun powder

In the world of smokeless powders, there are double base powders and single base powders. There is extruded (stick powder) and ball/spherical powder. Then there are powders that have coatings applied to them to make them more temp stable. All the Hodgdon Extreme line of powders are single base, extruded powder and have a coating on the powder to make them more temp stable, like H4350, VARGET, H4831, H1000, RETUMBO, H4895, etc. These work very well to help maintain match grade consistent ammunition year round.

Ball or spherical powder, is very small sphericals that are much smaller than an extruded powder. Therefore they have more surface area to react to temp change. In general, ball/spherical powders are more temp sensitive and extruded powders are less temp sensitive.
Then there's double base and single base powder. Single base powder uses only nitrocellulose, where double base powder uses nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. The double base powders have more energy than single base powders do, therefore give higher speeds than single base powders do. Double base powders are more temp sensitive than a single base powder is. Double base powders will push a bullet faster than a single base powder will since there is more energy in the powder.

The Hodgdon Extreme line of powders are single base, extruded, and coated to be more temp stable. They are not immune to temp sensitivity, but they certainly are much better than other double base, ball/spherical powders.

So, if ammunition is loaded with a double base, ball/spherical powder, it has all the right combinations to VERY temp sensitive. Ammunition loaded with a double base, ball/spherical powder combination can push a bullet faster, but it comes at a cost. During the summer time, you risk blowing primers and locking up your bolt due to a high pressure round. And during the winter time, the velocities will be reduced creating much slower speeds. In either case, there is enough effect on the speeds and pressures to take you in or out of an accuracy node. This double base and ball/spherical powder combination is common on a lot of factory ammo. Ball/spherical powder is commonly used because it is easier to meter through progressive loading machines than an extruded powder.

I have used double base and ball/spherical powder combination in testing for a local guy in his 270 WSM. At his request, I used this powder. I was able to get over 100 fps more velocity than other Hodgdon powders with the same bullet. I worked up the load when it was cooler out. He shot the same load in the summer time and was blowing primers, locking up his bolt and groups opened way up. So, we went back to the load with a slower velocity with H4831 that was a temp stable load and still shot very well.

For this reason, I will not use any double base, ball/spherical powders for my custom match ammo. It's too big of a risk with those powders, unless you reduce the load enough to shoot them in the summer time heat. But even then it can make for a bad shooting load. I load mostly Hodgdon Extreme powders for the better temperature stability and more consistent ammunition year round.

If you research each powder on the manufactures website, they list the kind of powder it is and you can see in the powder description and product details. Often times, these powders can shoot good, but you just can't go to max and keep it there in year round temps.



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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167138
05/11/18 07:03 PM
05/11/18 07:03 PM
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Might be good to talk about pistol and shotgun powders too.


Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167203
05/11/18 08:21 PM
05/11/18 08:21 PM
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So what is the purpose of a double base spherical powder. It appears to be useless in any application I can think of.

Edit: from what I understand you can tune the double base for maximum speed at max temp and it will exceed the single base extruded load in speed when hot, but maybe even slower when cold, and possibly not as accurate at any range.

Last edited by wp75169; 05/11/18 08:27 PM.
Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167321
05/11/18 09:59 PM
05/11/18 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Powder scales
So, what questions do you have?

I began reloading with a cheap scale that I already had from another hobby. It didn't weigh in grains so I had my conversion chart handy. I questioned its precision so I set out looking for a better scale. After some time spent reading and researching I had just as many if not more questions and still little confidence in what to look for. I did finally settled on this. https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jennings-jscale-jsvg20.html

What should the average Joe re-loader be looking for on his/her quest for precisely (or as precise as he can afford or willing to afford) measured charges?

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167322
05/11/18 10:01 PM
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Another one that is not on your list yet. Crimping for the AR. How much is enough and more important, how to keep it consistent from 1 session to the next?

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167423
05/11/18 11:40 PM
05/11/18 11:40 PM
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What powder or powders do you think might get used in the Mil-Spec 6.5CM? And what bullet, if such a bullet exists and doesn’t need to be developed for military use? I’m thinking that such a bullet will need to be ‘invented’.

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: garyrapp55] #7167504
05/12/18 12:57 AM
05/12/18 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Another one that is not on your list yet. Crimping for the AR. How much is enough and more important, how to keep it consistent from 1 session to the next?


I’d be interested in this


Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: RiverRider] #7167506
05/12/18 12:58 AM
05/12/18 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
I think a good place to start would be how to choose burn rate. That's pretty basic.

And this up


Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167520
05/12/18 01:09 AM
05/12/18 01:09 AM
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seating depth and jump. how to find out what your gun/bullet combo likes and why

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167527
05/12/18 01:15 AM
05/12/18 01:15 AM
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Why Ladder Tests do in fact work. bolt



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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167779
05/12/18 01:28 PM
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How to properly measure or set neck tension...

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: snake oil] #7167819
05/12/18 02:14 PM
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You CANNOT measure neck TENSION. Tension is a force, not a dimension. You CAN measure the force required to seat a bullet using some special reloading equipment, and you CAN measure neck inside diameter before seating...but you absolutely can NOT measure the tension that a case neck is subjected to with a bullet seated.

You CAN measure case necks before seating and after seating, but that is only a dimensional change. Without knowing much more about the current state of the brass in the case neck and some very exact dimensions, you still will not know what the TENSION in that case neck is. Before and after measurements may bring about good consistency if meticulous brass prep is executed, including annealing, but tension has a very specific meaning.

Originally Posted By: wikipedia
In physics, tension may be described as the pulling force transmitted axially by the means of a string, cable, chain, or similar one-dimensional continuous object, or by each end of a rod, truss member, or similar three-dimensional object; tension might also be described as the action-reaction pair of forces acting at each end of said elements. Tension could be the opposite of compression.




I'm here to give and receive knowledge, not affirmation or adoration. If you don't like it, mierda dura. Intellectual honesty is not for fragile egos.
Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167830
05/12/18 02:30 PM
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which ever direction/topic you begin with Chad it will be appreciated by all of us. Thanks for bringing this up.


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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: Dave3575] #7167892
05/12/18 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave3575
seating depth and jump. how to find out what your gun/bullet combo likes and why


I would definitely like to hear about Chad's approach on testing/tuning the seating depths with various types of bullets (Berger Hybrids, ELDM, Matchking, and Accubond). Would also enjoy more about primer selection and why.


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I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink
Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167939
05/12/18 04:30 PM
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How to improve powder throw consistency with handgun loads on Dillon presses. I have been using Titegroup, but am changing to Win 231 hoping that improves the end result.

How to improve primer seating consistency on a Dillon press. Out of 100, 3 to 4 start off out of alignment and make a slight impression on the primer. They always shoot fine, but the imperfect surfaces always leaves me wondering about reliability.

Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7168239
05/13/18 02:00 AM
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I've had that too jeffbird, always thought I'm doing something not quite right.


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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7168849
05/14/18 12:45 AM
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How about bearing surface effecting bullet jump? I've noticed I have better luck with bullets that have a bigger bearing surface when there is more freebore.

Last edited by Rcinit; 05/14/18 12:47 AM.

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Re: What do you want to know about Ammo? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7170438
05/15/18 03:34 PM
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How about brass prep and its effect on accuracy and consistency. Another good one previously mentioned is charge weights and scales.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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