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Mar 25th, 2012
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SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... #7166553
05/11/18 02:59 AM
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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166581
05/11/18 03:21 AM
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They could have done this years ago since the 6.5x55 came out it 1894. At least they are catching up with 19th century technology.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: scottfromdallas] #7166585
05/11/18 03:25 AM
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In another thread, in another time, I said, the government isn't always the first to use ground breaking information, especially with rifle cartridges.



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166591
05/11/18 03:28 AM
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So is homeland security..... Also crane (seal armorers) put in to convert their scar from 308 to 6.5.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166601
05/11/18 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
In another thread, in another time, I said, the government isn't always the first to use ground breaking information, especially with rifle cartridges.


I seem to recall that. Took them long enough to catch up I guess... SMDH.

Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166609
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I love the 308 Win and 6.5x55. You can't argue with physics. I'm glad they are moving to the medium capacity 6.5. There is no doubt that the 6.5 Creedmoor is mainstream. Every manufacturer that makes bolt actions is adding it as a standard offering in their short actions. I was a hater but now I'm a lover. I have two 6.5x55s and the popularity of the Creedmoor just gives me more quality bullet options.

For hunting, I still love the 308 Win and always will.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166769
05/11/18 12:46 PM
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so here is the real question, what is this going to do for H4350 availability? It's already pretty bad!

Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166774
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If I were you, I would block H-4350 from my mind, I have. It is made in Australia.

IMR-4451 is made in America and seems to be doing the same work, but is a powder that is actually available.



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7166830
05/11/18 01:43 PM
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Pretty sure newer factory 6.5 creed is using a proprietary blend instead of 4350 like originally.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: Crews] #7166866
05/11/18 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Crews
so here is the real question, what is this going to do for H4350 availability? It's already pretty bad!


They won't use H4350, for 2 main reasons. The cost of H4350 would be higher than a commercial grade ball powder. Also, H4350 is an extruded powder and does not meter near as good as a ball powder does through a powder dispenser when loading thousands of rounds quickly. The ball powders meter very well for a more consistent round. And the loading tolerances on military ammo is not that tight. You can have a somewhat larger extreme spread on velocities, with a specification on temp tolerances.



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167031
05/11/18 05:03 PM
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Nah, it's just a fad, and since it's a millimeter bullet it doesn't hit as hard.

Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167089
05/11/18 05:59 PM
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“Those shooters fired Knight’s Armament’s SR-25, the M110A1 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (based on Heckler & Koch’s G28) and the Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle, made by Fabrique Nationale or FN, in three calibers — 7.62mm NATO, .260 Remington and 6.5mm.”

I’d think a writer for Military Times wouldn’t be so ignorant, I only count two calibers.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: ChadTRG42] #7167093
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Crews
so here is the real question, what is this going to do for H4350 availability? It's already pretty bad!


They won't use H4350, for 2 main reasons. The cost of H4350 would be higher than a commercial grade ball powder. Also, H4350 is an extruded powder and does not meter near as good as a ball powder does through a powder dispenser when loading thousands of rounds quickly. The ball powders meter very well for a more consistent round. And the loading tolerances on military ammo is not that tight. You can have a somewhat larger extreme spread on velocities, with a specification on temp tolerances.


I’ve always been under the impression U.S. sniper ammunition is hand loaded. Have I been wrong all this time?


A Tibetan monk walked up to a hotdog stand and said, “Make me one with everything”.
Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: booradley] #7167105
05/11/18 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: booradley
“Those shooters fired Knight’s Armament’s SR-25, the M110A1 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (based on Heckler & Koch’s G28) and the Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle, made by Fabrique Nationale or FN, in three calibers — 7.62mm NATO, .260 Remington and 6.5mm.”

I’d think a writer for Military Times wouldn’t be so ignorant, I only count two calibers.


7.62mm
.260 Remington
6.5mm (he left off Creedmoor)



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: booradley] #7167108
05/11/18 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: booradley
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Crews
so here is the real question, what is this going to do for H4350 availability? It's already pretty bad!


They won't use H4350, for 2 main reasons. The cost of H4350 would be higher than a commercial grade ball powder. Also, H4350 is an extruded powder and does not meter near as good as a ball powder does through a powder dispenser when loading thousands of rounds quickly. The ball powders meter very well for a more consistent round. And the loading tolerances on military ammo is not that tight. You can have a somewhat larger extreme spread on velocities, with a specification on temp tolerances.


I’ve always been under the impression U.S. sniper ammunition is hand loaded. Have I been wrong all this time?


Yessir, you were. I was told my an Army vet (maybe Sapper can expand) there are a few "grades" of ammo, and they are labeled on the can. The Snipers try to get the best grade. Their ammo is what holds them back from being able to shoot tighter than they do. They have to hit a man sized target. I think the top grade stuff is actually Federal Gold Metal Match, relabled.

As far as I know the only Army unit that uses hand loads is the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit, USAMU. And they are by Gawd excellent shooters with it too! They regularly win the Wibelton Cup.

PD Snipers also use mass produced ammo. Once agency that trains at my place uses 168 gr FGGM, and another uses 147 gr Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor.

Last edited by FiremanJG; 05/11/18 06:37 PM.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167129
05/11/18 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: booradley
“Those shooters fired Knight’s Armament’s SR-25, the M110A1 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (based on Heckler & Koch’s G28) and the Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle, made by Fabrique Nationale or FN, in three calibers — 7.62mm NATO, .260 Remington and 6.5mm.”

I’d think a writer for Military Times wouldn’t be so ignorant, I only count two calibers.


7.62mm
.260 Remington
6.5mm (he left off Creedmoor)


Three cartridges were tested, not three calibers. Only two calibers were tested. It’s not a biggie but I’d think a writer for a publication such as that would know the difference.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167134
05/11/18 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: booradley
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Crews
so here is the real question, what is this going to do for H4350 availability? It's already pretty bad!


They won't use H4350, for 2 main reasons. The cost of H4350 would be higher than a commercial grade ball powder. Also, H4350 is an extruded powder and does not meter near as good as a ball powder does through a powder dispenser when loading thousands of rounds quickly. The ball powders meter very well for a more consistent round. And the loading tolerances on military ammo is not that tight. You can have a somewhat larger extreme spread on velocities, with a specification on temp tolerances.


I’ve always been under the impression U.S. sniper ammunition is hand loaded. Have I been wrong all this time?


Yessir, you were. I was told my an Army vet (maybe Sapper can expand) there are a few "grades" of ammo, and they are labeled on the can. The Snipers try to get the best grade. Their ammo is what holds them back from being able to shoot tighter than they do. They have to hit a man sized target. I think the top grade stuff is actually Federal Gold Metal Match, relabled.

As far as I know the only Army unit that uses hand loads is the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit, USAMU. And they are by Gawd excellent shooters with it too! They regularly win the Wibelton Cup.

PD Snipers also use mass produced ammo. Once agency that trains at my place uses 168 gr FGGM, and another uses 147 gr Hornady Match 6.5 Creedmoor.


Guess I was wrong then.


A Tibetan monk walked up to a hotdog stand and said, “Make me one with everything”.
Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: booradley] #7167165
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Originally Posted By: booradley
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: booradley
“Those shooters fired Knight’s Armament’s SR-25, the M110A1 Semi-Automatic Sniper System (based on Heckler & Koch’s G28) and the Mk20 Sniper Support Rifle, made by Fabrique Nationale or FN, in three calibers — 7.62mm NATO, .260 Remington and 6.5mm.”

I’d think a writer for Military Times wouldn’t be so ignorant, I only count two calibers.


7.62mm
.260 Remington
6.5mm (he left off Creedmoor)


Three cartridges were tested, not three calibers. Only two calibers were tested. It’s not a biggie but I’d think a writer for a publication such as that would know the difference.


I agree.

I once sent an email to a contributor of "American Rifleman" magazine with a similar complaint.



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167193
05/11/18 08:10 PM
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I actually sent a friendly EMail to Todd South. He went and changed the sentence in the article. He did not know there was a difference between caliber and cartridge and thanked me for pointing out the discrepancy. He didn’t make the change in another sentence at the top of the article but I ain’t going to Email him again and point it out.


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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7167244
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I too was under the impression some of those guys were loading their own. Maybe it's Marine sniper teams. Maybe it is just the marksmanship units.

Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: booradley] #7167276
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Originally Posted By: booradley
I actually sent a friendly EMail to Todd South. He went and changed the sentence in the article. He did not know there was a difference between caliber and cartridge and thanked me for pointing out the discrepancy. He didn’t make the change in another sentence at the top of the article but I ain’t going to Email him again and point it out.


Good on both of you. Even if he didn't "complete" the job. up



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Re: SOCOM Snipers leaving the .308 Win, 7.62mm and going to... [Re: FiremanJG] #7168353
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Very cool. SOCOM always gets the best toys. lol. I remember a while back when Larry Vickers made a YouTube video about their latest scope selection, some very pricey S&B glass. Very neat.

I follow USAMU on Instagram. I know that they can use their handloads, but lately they've been posting about some 3-gun stuff and, earlier, Junior Air Rifle, so I'm not completely sure.

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