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Mar 25th, 2012
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Alchohol and carrying heat #7160946
05/05/18 01:09 PM
05/05/18 01:09 PM
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Another thread made me post this.

If you go out to dinner where you will be drinking, do you leave your gun(s) at home?

Slippery slope, both this and driving are against the law if over the legal "limit".

I wont carry but I tend to forget about my truck gun which never leaves its place.


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7160961
05/05/18 01:18 PM
05/05/18 01:18 PM
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Granbury, TX
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It's easy for me. My department policy says I can't carry off duty with any alcohol in my system, so I just don't drink when we go out somewhere. I already wouldn't drink anything if I was driving so it's just a small step to include when I'm carrying. I would rather carry than drink.


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7160962
05/05/18 01:19 PM
05/05/18 01:19 PM
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If I know Iím going to partake I will leave it at home, the possible trouble just isnít worth it. If the evening turns into a late night I will put it under the back seat in the little compartment. I believe itís just as important to protect yourself legally as it is to protect yourself physically. Just my .02



"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7161163
05/05/18 05:34 PM
05/05/18 05:34 PM
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People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Bar-D] #7161186
05/05/18 06:05 PM
05/05/18 06:05 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted by Bar-D


And there^^ is the answer.

Lost control of normal faculties OR a blood alcohol level of .08



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Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7161284
05/05/18 09:15 PM
05/05/18 09:15 PM
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This is why I don't have a LTC.......

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: snake oil] #7161313
05/05/18 10:11 PM
05/05/18 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


It is the same as having a driverís license.

Originally Posted By: Grizz
It's easy for me. I would rather carry than drink.


This is my feeling. I had to quit a few years ago because of problems Tylenol was causing to me. I have not missed it and feel better overall.

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: snake oil] #7161554
05/06/18 10:58 AM
05/06/18 10:58 AM
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Frisco, TX / Davao Philippines
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Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: FiremanJG] #7161556
05/06/18 11:03 AM
05/06/18 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Bar-D


And there^^ is the answer.

Lost control of normal faculties OR a blood alcohol level of .08


Question?

So if you don't have a CHL/LTC then this doesn't apply to you? If you have a concealed weapon in your car?


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: RedRanger] #7161691
05/06/18 02:54 PM
05/06/18 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........



The reason for the license is to carry it from the vehicle into the business. Without the license you are in "unlawful carry".

I am friends with lots of Police officers. The majority, by a wide margin, are relieved to see a LTC. That license proves you are not a felon or a known scumbag. The rookie that over reacts (which I see as a tiny chance) isn't going to harm you if you comply with his commands. Do what the Police say, Police don't shoot you.



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Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: RedRanger] #7161695
05/06/18 02:56 PM
05/06/18 02:56 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted by RedRanger
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Bar-D


And there^^ is the answer.

Lost control of normal faculties OR a blood alcohol level of .08


Question?

So if you don't have a CHL/LTC then this doesn't apply to you? If you have a concealed weapon in your car?



Any firearm, knife, club in your vehicle falls under the Texas Castle Law. And yes, .08 B.A.C. does in fact apply to you. You are operating a deadly weapon (automobile) and are in posession of another potential deadly weapon, firearm.



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Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7161717
05/06/18 03:24 PM
05/06/18 03:24 PM
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The problem is the slippery slope. One drink leads to another. Then you donít have the judgment needed to put your weapon away.

Guy starts out fine intending not to drink or just have one, one leads to more - never takes his gun out of his waistband. Iíve seen it several times.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7161960
05/06/18 07:56 PM
05/06/18 07:56 PM
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Yep, nice guys can turn mean and mean guys can turn nice with too much booze.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: RedRanger] #7162031
05/06/18 09:41 PM
05/06/18 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........



It wont take him long to know you have an LTC. He will know before he walks up to your vehicle. You best NOT try and keep anything from him. Just my .02


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: RedRanger] #7162040
05/06/18 09:57 PM
05/06/18 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........



The Virginia loophole. Watch a video, take a test and you are legal in Texas. People that don't pass background check in Texas can pass theirs sometimes and get a license good in Texas.

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Txduckman] #7162100
05/06/18 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........



The Virginia loophole. Watch a video, take a test and you are legal in Texas. People that don't pass background check in Texas can pass theirs sometimes and get a license good in Texas.


The reciprocity agreements with some states only apply to resident licenses, i.e. a Texas resident with a Texas license. Also, the Texas course teaches law which a person needs to know about where not to carry and Texas law on the use of force, which is critical.

All of the officers I know and have encountered have a positive view of licensees as they have been through a background check and have decided to care about and be responsible for their own safety.

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7162145
05/07/18 12:07 AM
05/07/18 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........



It wont take him long to know you have an LTC. He will know before he walks up to your vehicle. You best NOT try and keep anything from him. Just my .02


What?

The vehicle you are driving lets LEO know if you have a gun in your car? No way that can happen

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: FiremanJG] #7162612
05/07/18 02:06 PM
05/07/18 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........


The reason for the license is to carry it from the vehicle into the business. Without the license you are in "unlawful carry".

I am friends with lots of Police officers. The majority, by a wide margin, are relieved to see a LTC. That license proves you are not a felon or a known scumbag. The rookie that over reacts (which I see as a tiny chance) isn't going to harm you if you comply with his commands. Do what the Police say, Police don't shoot you.


Have you met that Idiot Rookie looking for a problem? I did and it could have ended up with some one shot!!! He was very excited when he found out I was carrying, he grabbed my arm and shoved it in the air and started trying to jerk a fully loaded .357 Mag out of a retention holster hollering at me how do you get it out???

Dumb A** could have easily shot me or his partner (who was a good guy and just shaking his head). I still have my LTC and use it every day and would recommend that most people should, but do not ever under estimate a complete jerk with a badge. Now with that said I have contact with many officers in the 5 years or so that I have carried, all but this one have been positive experiences.


Thank You
Robert

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7162622
05/07/18 02:13 PM
05/07/18 02:13 PM
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Robert,

what department was the officer with?

Have to say, this is the first problem I have heard of in Texas between an officer and a LTC licensee.

Were you carrying open or concealed?

Would appreciate some specifics to help me in my teaching.

Thanks.

Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: rdhibbs] #7162682
05/07/18 03:29 PM
05/07/18 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: rdhibbs
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RedRanger
Originally Posted By: snake oil
This is why I don't have a LTC.......


With you being able to carry in your vehicle, I really don't see much reason to have a CHL/LTC now of days.

Maybe if you traveled a lot in the USA it would be good to have

I think you can get a license from Vermont for like $40 and be legal in Texas.

I don't like the police knowing I have a LTC/CHL when I get pulled over, I am pro cop but I just don't want to get the rookie who tries to be billy bad arse........


The reason for the license is to carry it from the vehicle into the business. Without the license you are in "unlawful carry".

I am friends with lots of Police officers. The majority, by a wide margin, are relieved to see a LTC. That license proves you are not a felon or a known scumbag. The rookie that over reacts (which I see as a tiny chance) isn't going to harm you if you comply with his commands. Do what the Police say, Police don't shoot you.


Have you met that Idiot Rookie looking for a problem? I did and it could have ended up with some one shot!!! He was very excited when he found out I was carrying, he grabbed my arm and shoved it in the air and started trying to jerk a fully loaded .357 Mag out of a retention holster hollering at me how do you get it out???

Dumb A** could have easily shot me or his partner (who was a good guy and just shaking his head). I still have my LTC and use it every day and would recommend that most people should, but do not ever under estimate a complete jerk with a badge. Now with that said I have contact with many officers in the 5 years or so that I have carried, all but this one have been positive experiences.


Of course I have, on duty an off. And every veteran officer has told me to be polite, try to calm him down, and he will figure things out. They've also said to call his Sergeant, or go all the way to the Chief.

One of our guys, David, was concealed carrying off duty. He unintentionally passed a counterfeit $50, and the clerk in the convenience store would not give it back (David wanted to destroy it) Clerk called Garland PD. David gave the officer his LTC. Officer asked "are you carrying?" David, "of course". Officer took David's pistol and cleared it. Sergeant showed up, heard the story, told the officer to put that Fireman's pistol back in his holster, and apologize. Sergeant saw that David had FMJ in his mag, and asked "what the hell are you doing loaded with those bullets?" David, "well, I was practicing with it yesterday and didn't reload with self defense rounds". Sergeant said "come with me". David went to the patrol car, Sergeant opened the trunk, and handed David a box of Speer Gold Dot, and said "put the right damn bullets in that mag".

grin



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Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7162706
05/07/18 03:43 PM
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Jeffbird,

I came very close to calling for just that reason. Details are as follows.

About a year ago I was taking a 4-H shooting sports coach training in Pampa TX. The training was in a City / County park where the county barn and several shooting facilities are.

I could not afford to / did not want to drive back and forth to Dumas on the tight schedule, Also could not afford a hotel room. So I slept in the car just outside the Pistol Club that we were training in. Now I have done this enough to expect the knock on the window at approx 2:00 am to see if every thing is OK.

As expected about 2:00 am I got a Knock on my window asking if I was OK and what I was doing. I Opened the door (window did not work) I explained what I was doing the officer was a very nice guy and was courteous. He ask for my ID, I had to pass my hand by my revolver to get to my billfold, I stated that to the officer before I reached for my billfold. He said OK.

About the time I handed the first officer my LTC and DL, I hear GET OUT OF THE CAR, Which I did. Imeaditaly my hand went strait up in the air. He began hollering where is it. I was half asleep and said where is what!!! He reply's the GUN Where is the Gun. I told him on my hip. It was covered by a light jacket and a Tee shirt.

With my hand held in the air and him jerking on my fully loaded Ruger LCR in .357, He was pulling up hard enough to make me feel I was being lifted up, (I darned sure did not try to move my hand in the direction of the fire arm to help him).

He finally got it out of my holster and disappeared. I began talking to the first officer again and then we hear "did you run his license? DID YOU RUN HIS LICENSE? the other officer stated yes. The young punk Said Get Him in the light. I must have given the first officer the "WTF" look because he said, please just step in the headlights of the car it will only take a minute. My Revolver was on the hood with ammo scattered on the hood. About that time the dispatch came back and stated "Subject Has an LTC / Fire arm is clear" The young cop says I am putting this back in your car Do Not Load it until we are gone, and he put the revolver and ammo in my driver seat.

I waited until they were gone, reloaded and put it back in my holster.

I did not tell them about the Loaded .45LC derringer in the seat beside me, or the two unloaded .22 rifles in the back seat, I do not know what would have happened>

I was pretty shaken for a day or two thinking about how it could have gone south and quickly. I finely derided I was lucky, I only had to deal with him for 15 Minutes, I sure would hate to be his partner.

I treated those officers with respect the whole time, I was compliant with all their commands.

The two things I learned that night were how valuable a retention holster relay is and how quickly things can go bad.


Thank You
Robert

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7162984
05/07/18 07:11 PM
05/07/18 07:11 PM
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Glad that worked out for you - sounds like you did everything just right.

Even rookie cops are not supposed to be idiots.

That's kinda why they undergo the training to be certified. The problem with letting them figure things out is that they might kill somebody or get themselves or someone else killed in the meantime.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7163271
05/07/18 11:55 PM
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Robert,

Thank you for the write-up, that had to be a very tense situation for everyone involved. Glad it ended up ok for all involved.

Not saying you did anything wrong, but there are a couple of things in this interaction that started it on a higher tension path, by which I mean different than the protocol taught by TxDPS in the CHL/LTC course.

First, the context is important. ďRoutineĒ stops always pose real risk to the officer, and then this interaction is not "routine." Middle of the night, driver is out cold. Could be sleeping in a car. If the person is homeless, which is the more common scenario than a good citizen taking a nap, mental illness is likely. At 2 a.m., a passed out drunk driver is a real likelihood. Passed out from drugs is another likely scenario. All of those point to an unpredictable response from the person. They do not know who you are, only you are out cold in the car, in the middle of the night, on the side of the road.

Originally Posted by rdhibbs


As expected about 2:00 am I got a Knock on my window asking if I was OK and what I was doing. I Opened the door (window did not work)


Next, you opened the door without him requesting you to do so. To me, this move likely is what changes the dynamics and mindset of the officers. The TxDPS protocol as taught in LTC classes is to have all windows down, and the interior light on, hands in plain sight.

The door is a protective barrier between you and the officer. By you opening the door rather than the window, you are crossing that barrier. Bad things happen to cops when doors open. They now are on high alert. They are authorized to disarm licensees during a stop. They are required to give your pistol back before departing. Given the time, location, and coming out of the car, the tense atmosphere is not surprising.

In the future, please fix the window and use it instead of the door. Next time you are going to sleep by the gate, it might not hurt to call the dispatcher or a patrol officer before going to sleep and they might even keep an eye on you to make sure you are ok.

For general purpose info for everyone when stopped, put all windows down, turn off the engine, turn on the dome lights, have your driverís license out and your LTC out if you have one, keep both hands up on the top of the steering wheel in plain sight, do not go reaching in the console, glove box, purse, pants, bags, or boxes.

Most importantly, do not get out of the car unless asked to do so. Then keep hands in plain sight towards the officer.

Here are some examples of how fast things can turn to SHTF for the cop.





Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: Buzzsaw] #7163402
05/08/18 01:57 AM
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My wife and I recently completed the classroom and shooting qualification.
It's clear to me a lifestyle change is going to be necessary especially
considering my ability to function is left up to the discretion of
someone that does not know me. I know there is not a better way.

I have always enjoyed drinks with dinner, now I'll have to decide if I
want a cocktail more than I feel the need to carry because I will not
do both.


It's nights like these that make me sleep all day

Lucero
Re: Alchohol and carrying heat [Re: jeffbird] #7163679
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Originally Posted by jeffbird
Robert,

Thank you for the write-up, that had to be a very tense situation for everyone involved. Glad it ended up ok for all involved.

Not saying you did anything wrong, but there are a couple of things in this interaction that started it on a higher tension path, by which I mean different than the protocol taught by TxDPS in the CHL/LTC course.

First, the context is important. ďRoutineĒ stops always pose real risk to the officer, and then this interaction is not "routine." Middle of the night, driver is out cold. Could be sleeping in a car. If the person is homeless, which is the more common scenario than a good citizen taking a nap, mental illness is likely. At 2 a.m., a passed out drunk driver is a real likelihood. Passed out from drugs is another likely scenario. All of those point to an unpredictable response from the person. They do not know who you are, only you are out cold in the car, in the middle of the night, on the side of the road.

Originally Posted by rdhibbs


As expected about 2:00 am I got a Knock on my window asking if I was OK and what I was doing. I Opened the door (window did not work)


Next, you opened the door without him requesting you to do so. To me, this move likely is what changes the dynamics and mindset of the officers. The TxDPS protocol as taught in LTC classes is to have all windows down, and the interior light on, hands in plain sight.

The door is a protective barrier between you and the officer. By you opening the door rather than the window, you are crossing that barrier. Bad things happen to cops when doors open. They now are on high alert. They are authorized to disarm licensees during a stop. They are required to give your pistol back before departing. Given the time, location, and coming out of the car, the tense atmosphere is not surprising.

In the future, please fix the window and use it instead of the door. Next time you are going to sleep by the gate, it might not hurt to call the dispatcher or a patrol officer before going to sleep and they might even keep an eye on you to make sure you are ok.

For general purpose info for everyone when stopped, put all windows down, turn off the engine, turn on the dome lights, have your driverís license out and your LTC out if you have one, keep both hands up on the top of the steering wheel in plain sight, do not go reaching in the console, glove box, purse, pants, bags, or boxes.

Most importantly, do not get out of the car unless asked to do so. Then keep hands in plain sight towards the officer.

Here are some examples of how fast things can turn to SHTF for the cop.






Thank You for your input, I see you are truly concerned that everyone out there including myself is safe. I want to clarify a thing or two.

I did not just throw the door open, I just opened it far enough they could hear me, I communicated that the window did not work. I know that is not the prophetical you quoted, but it was the best I could do.

I am aware of the officers right to disarm any armed person LTC or not, I understand the reasoning on this one as well. MY concern was the manor in which he did it, His actions while taking the fire arm was reckless and could have resulted in a negligent discharge, injuring me or his partner. The other point here is that the older officer may have been on high alert as well, but his actions and demeanor was much different.

In any case everyone walked away OK, 99.9% of my interactions with law enforcement has been positive. I just wanted to point out that there are young motivated officers who can easily take the situation out of hand.


Thank You
Robert

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, right or wrong - is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

Theodore Roosevelt
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