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Mar 25th, 2012
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Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow #7142521
04/16/18 09:08 PM
04/16/18 09:08 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 5,837
Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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My last vid has Dave and I shooting Speer TNT 90 gr ammo with pretty good results, but we didn't necropsy any hogs. So I went out Sunday night with the hopes of getting at least one hog, ideally a large boar. I ended up with a medium-sized sow (165 lbs). I made a shot that I would expect to be fatal with SST or other hunting ammo and it was definitely fatal with TNT. I apologize for the video. The computer has issues and I had to reboot a couple of times during the making of the video.

It took some research, but I learned of a condition that I had been seeing over numerous hunts with some hogs that I necropsy, tissue that feels like really delicate bubble wrap that pops with the slightest touch. That is actually called subcutaneous emphysema, which just means air bubbles in the tissue below the skin. It is unpleasant and generally not life threatening unless the bubbles close off an airway, such as in the throat. It occurs commonly with chest wounds or breaks in the pulmonary system allowing gas to escape into the body, such as with a stabbing or gunshot wound to the chest. However, I have also see this condition in the abdomen. It can occur by piercing wounds, blunt force trauma, or by extra large pressure increases (called 'barotrauma') such as may be experienced by divers. Given that the injury can occur outside of the chest cavity when animals are being shot and that it can happen very suddenly and over a wide area, I wonder if it doesn't happen as a result of the rapid expansion of the temporary wound cavity inside the animal??? Maybe somebody with real medical knowledge can enlighten me on this.

When I next try the TNT ammo, I will see if I can shoot farther back on the shoulder and step up the challenge to the round.



Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7142558
04/16/18 09:38 PM
04/16/18 09:38 PM
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Posts: 5,517
Mesquite, Tx
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bigjoe8565 Online content
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Great video.

Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7142584
04/16/18 10:21 PM
04/16/18 10:21 PM
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Posts: 1,829
Fort Worth
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Pig_Popper Online content
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The mighty little bullet that could...


I smell Bacon
Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7143222
04/17/18 04:27 PM
04/17/18 04:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 354
TX Panhandle
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JTPinTX Offline
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TX Panhandle
Good video, I always like the ones with bullet performance/terminal effects in them.

Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7144245
04/18/18 03:25 PM
04/18/18 03:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
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h20thief Offline
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Sub Q emphysema is generally caused by a perforated lung allowing air to escape into the plural space. I've treated a couple of patients (I'm a paramedic) with it and have seen it on closed trauma as well. In particular, a guy fell while standing on his back bumper and hit his tailgate just under his shoulder blade. 10 hours later he calls us due to severe pain and difficulty breathing. Rolled him a bit to inspect and found the sub Q rice crispy, definite sign of a lung injury.

I would suspect it could happen with the expansion of the plural space when the bullet strikes but likely also due to the animal continuing to breathe with a damaged lung. I've cleaned several deer over the years that presented with the same and I just assumed it was due to the respiratory effort immediately following the shot (I usually heart/lung shoot to avoid meat damage).

Great videos as usual DNS. Finally recovered from ankle surgery and hopefully can resume hunting with the Trail.


H20thief
------------
Positive thinking may not solve all your problems but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7144328
04/18/18 04:30 PM
04/18/18 04:30 PM
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Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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I have now heard back from a veterinarian (former military medic) and a doctor at the Mayo clinic of all places. Everything I had read had the condition occurring (often implied, not stated) over a prolonged period of time, such as 30 minutes to several days. Sudden traumatic onset certainly can happen, but the speed, in regard to treatment, isn't a huge concern as it usually takes care of itself (except in rare cases where it occurs in the neck and swelling may close off the airway) and so the speed issue usually isn't even addressed.

While it usually is associated with the top/forward half of the body (human/quadruped), I have seen it happen over the topside near the pelvis as well, around the wound area.

I have seen it with various projectiles and calibers, but I will be interested to see if the condition is really frequent with bullets like TNT that are known for their overly rapid expansion and see if that plays into it.


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7144568
04/18/18 07:56 PM
04/18/18 07:56 PM
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Posts: 22
Texas, Montague
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NorTexShooter Offline
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Texas, Montague
What brand or model brass catcher are you using?

Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7144584
04/18/18 08:12 PM
04/18/18 08:12 PM
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Posts: 1,310
Central Texas
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der Teufel Offline
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Intriguing …

It's interesting to see the performance differences between various bullets.
I don't get to shoot near enough hogs to collect sufficient data, and I tend to just shoot the cheapest cup and core bullets I can get, so thanks for taking the trouble to report your findings. Not that I'm likely to make any changes, but you never know.


You can never have too much ammo — unless you're swimming.
Re: Grendel 90 gr Speer TNT Test on 165 lb Sow [Re: NorTexShooter] #7144603
04/18/18 08:25 PM
04/18/18 08:25 PM
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Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Originally Posted By: NorTexShooter
What brand or model brass catcher are you using?


I use brass catchers from Tactical Brass Recovery. I have the low end model and the type that opens up.


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
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