texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
HeliarcHand, Grant123, Bigchief99, Adam210, Wldlife23
64477 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 90,481
stxranchman 53,890
bill oxner 50,351
RKHarm24 44,577
rifleman 44,414
BMD 41,009
SnakeWrangler 40,180
Big Orn 37,484
txshntr 35,379
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics419,460
Posts6,094,928
Members64,477
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". #7136071
04/08/18 11:18 PM
04/08/18 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Creekrunner Online content OP
THF Celebrity
Creekrunner  Online Content OP
THF Celebrity

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Entering year 4 on our lease. 4 friends from church. I've vented on here before about minor peccadillos. Nothing remotely worth getting off the lease. Now I've always observed how human systems, without a lot of attention to detail and occasional new energy, eventually break down. "Policies", committees, charities...the list is endless. I've always called it "entropy".

Expense reimbursements are starting to get really lax involving the deer lease. And they were never what'd you'd call efficient in the very beginning. My friend that's the "manager" runs his life, and his business, in a completely different way than I run mine. I can afford to have my expenses "blown off" (within reason). But I can't stand another man taking advantage of me, even if we consider each other close friends. I sent my expenses in in January, as instructed. I've usually had to send them in twice, 'cause he can never find the emails we'd sent before. Now there's the request for the full amount from each of us. No mention of balancing feed bills, other expenses, etc. that we've turned in. I've got an email into him (and the other two) asking what to deduct for my expenses, but here's where the "entropy" comes in. I know where this is headed.

Friendship is one thing. Bidness is another. The other two guys could care less. One has the attention span of a ferret on cocaine and the other has enough money to not even care.

Thoughts?


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136113
04/09/18 12:05 AM
04/09/18 12:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,246
Corsicana
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Nogalus Prairie  Offline
THF Celebrity
N

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 25,246
Corsicana
You need a better system or better friends - one of the two.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7136131
04/09/18 12:26 AM
04/09/18 12:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 958
maximus_flavius Offline
Tracker
maximus_flavius  Offline
Tracker

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 958
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
You need a better system or better friends - one of the two.


+ 1

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136142
04/09/18 12:34 AM
04/09/18 12:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 434
N.E. Texas
J
JCO Offline
Bird Dog
JCO  Offline
Bird Dog
J

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 434
N.E. Texas
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136150
04/09/18 12:39 AM
04/09/18 12:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,783
DFW
D
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Deerhunter61  Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,783
DFW
You guys simply need a better system. You mention expenses but I'm not sure what that entails. On my lease we are each responsible for our own set up and keeping our feeders full. We are required to feed year around. We pay for the lease and that payment includes the water and electricity we use while there. Other than that there aren't any additional expenses.

P.S. It is unfortunate but I too have experienced Christian friends who take advantage of others and it's unfortunate because it's not a very good testimony. Not only that but I've been taken advantage of by my Christian "brothers" in business. A very tough lesson I had to go thru more than once in order to learn my lesson. Remember, "Not every who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

Last edited by Deerhunter61; 04/09/18 12:44 AM.
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: JCO] #7136155
04/09/18 12:42 AM
04/09/18 12:42 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
T
Texas Dan Online content
THF Celebrity
Texas Dan  Online Content
THF Celebrity
T

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
Originally Posted By: JCO
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.


Great quote.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136205
04/09/18 01:24 AM
04/09/18 01:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
West TX
T
Theringworm Online content
Tracker
Theringworm  Online Content
Tracker
T

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 571
West TX
I do not let anyone handle my financial affairs on the lease. I pay directly to the rancher what is due. Been down that road before CR, ainít going down it again. My best friend still owes me money from 2 years ago. I reminded him once with an excel spreadsheet of the amount due. He didnít question it, just never paid. I havent reminded him again of it because, as a man with integrity/morals I feel he should recognize his own debt/shortcomings and pay as soon as possible. Thatís what I do if I had to borrow money. Completely eats me up inside until I can get it paid back. We are still best friends, but he wonít see another .01 from me, ever, even if he pays me back. Some would say I am holding a grudge. I disagree. I am simply protecting my wallet.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Theringworm] #7136242
04/09/18 02:04 AM
04/09/18 02:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
T
Texas Dan Online content
THF Celebrity
Texas Dan  Online Content
THF Celebrity
T

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
I do not let anyone handle my financial affairs on the lease. I pay directly to the rancher what is due. Been down that road before CR, ainít going down it again. My best friend still owes me money from 2 years ago. I reminded him once with an excel spreadsheet of the amount due. He didnít question it, just never paid. I havent reminded him again of it because, as a man with integrity/morals I feel he should recognize his own debt/shortcomings and pay as soon as possible. Thatís what I do if I had to borrow money. Completely eats me up inside until I can get it paid back. We are still best friends, but he wonít see another .01 from me, ever, even if he pays me back. Some would say I am holding a grudge. I disagree. I am simply protecting my wallet.


Had something very similar happen to me and several other guys when the guy running the lease was working inside with just a couple of the heir landowners. The other heirs were left out for several years but eventually found out about the money that was changing hands. Of course the guy running the lease blamed everyone but himself. It created so much discord in the family that I doubt the family will ever agree to lease the property to anyone again.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Theringworm] #7136292
04/09/18 03:14 AM
04/09/18 03:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Creekrunner Online content OP
THF Celebrity
Creekrunner  Online Content OP
THF Celebrity

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136312
04/09/18 03:53 AM
04/09/18 03:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,832
Big D
T
Txduckman Online content
THF Celebrity
Txduckman  Online Content
THF Celebrity
T

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,832
Big D
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136318
04/09/18 04:14 AM
04/09/18 04:14 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
T
Texas Dan Online content
THF Celebrity
Texas Dan  Online Content
THF Celebrity
T

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 13,921
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.


clap


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: JCO] #7136352
04/09/18 10:58 AM
04/09/18 10:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 960
Cedar Creek Lake Eustace, TX
M
Marc K Online content
Tracker
Marc K  Online Content
Tracker
M

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 960
Cedar Creek Lake Eustace, TX
Originally Posted By: JCO
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.


True on so many levels.


A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was not designed to be a Democracy.
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Txduckman] #7136376
04/09/18 11:39 AM
04/09/18 11:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,127
Flower Mound, TX
D
DQ Kid Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
DQ Kid  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
D

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,127
Flower Mound, TX
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.


Good way to be, getting 4-6 identically like minded or like motivated individuals is a virtual impossibility. Better to chase unicorns. In that size group, one to two will always be the highly motivated, highly willing to work and/or paying individual, one to two will be somewhere in the middle, one to two will be on the lower end of the scale for whatever reasons; lots of kids' activities, a nagging spouse, busy jobs, laziness or a combination of the sort. Whatever the case, co-existence/acceptance is paramount or if not, find a 1-2 person lease or buy own property. Those are pretty close to the options for most.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: DQ Kid] #7136464
04/09/18 01:42 PM
04/09/18 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Creekrunner Online content OP
THF Celebrity
Creekrunner  Online Content OP
THF Celebrity

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.


Good way to be, getting 4-6 identically like minded or like motivated individuals is a virtual impossibility. Better to chase unicorns. In that size group, one to two will always be the highly motivated, highly willing to work and/or paying individual, one to two will be somewhere in the middle, one to two will be on the lower end of the scale for whatever reasons; lots of kids' activities, a nagging spouse, busy jobs, laziness or a combination of the sort. Whatever the case, co-existence/acceptance is paramount or if not, find a 1-2 person lease or buy own property. Those are pretty close to the options for most.


Very well put, and I totally agree. I just know that, since I've shared some good deer that I've bothered to fart with the game cameras and see, there's going to be more "harvest rules" suddenly coming down from "on high" this upcoming season. So, the place will become less laid back each season I'm afraid. This, in combination with the expenses getting blown off more each year just makes the "writing on the wall" obvious. I'm all for good deer management and letting minor details slide. I just know the chances of where I think this is headed. Maybe not. But the friendship at church is more important to me than a leased pasture to kill deer in.

Thanks for all the input.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136583
04/09/18 03:37 PM
04/09/18 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 15,083
Murphy, TX Dickens county
P
Pitchfork Predator Offline
THF Celebrity
Pitchfork Predator  Offline
THF Celebrity
P

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 15,083
Murphy, TX Dickens county
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.


Yep.

Hopefully they see the error in their ways.


Marc C. Helfrich
Retirement Planner

www.insured-wealth.com
469-323-8920
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7136593
04/09/18 03:46 PM
04/09/18 03:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,680
Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
T
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
therancher  Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
T

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,680
Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
A few of a zillion reasons i chose to own rather than lease.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136778
04/09/18 08:08 PM
04/09/18 08:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Creekrunner Online content OP
THF Celebrity
Creekrunner  Online Content OP
THF Celebrity

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
My email woke him up and we're all back square now. 'Guess I was doing my Chicken Little routine, which I've been known to do from time to time. I made peace with my pessimism long ago. I'll practice cleansing breaths all summer and prepare for the what-we're-gonna-shoot discussion coming in October.
"Don't sweat the small stuff...and it's all small stuff!"


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136787
04/09/18 08:19 PM
04/09/18 08:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,121
H
Hunt Dog Offline
Pro Tracker
Hunt Dog  Offline
Pro Tracker
H

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,121
Sort of reminds me of an issue my neighbor had with a rent house. He learned the hard way of the Holy Trinity of people not to deal with:
Family/Friends, people you work with, people you go to church with.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7136801
04/09/18 08:42 PM
04/09/18 08:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,025
Western Parker County
H
Halfadozen Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
Halfadozen  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
H

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 9,025
Western Parker County
Glad you got it worked out CR, unfortunately it shouldn't have taken that step.


Freedom is a fragile thing ...Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again.
-- Ronald Reagan


Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Hunt Dog] #7136802
04/09/18 08:44 PM
04/09/18 08:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Creekrunner Online content OP
THF Celebrity
Creekrunner  Online Content OP
THF Celebrity

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11,342
Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: Hunt Dog
Sort of reminds me of an issue my neighbor had with a rent house. He learned the hard way of the Holy Trinity of people not to deal with:
Family/Friends, people you work with, people you go to church with.


I strictly adhere to the first two. On the third, the wife (of 25 years; we're both retired) said "PLEASE find a deer lease!" This was the first opportunity that came open. bang


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7137223
04/10/18 03:49 AM
04/10/18 03:49 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,073
M
Mickey Moose Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Mickey Moose  Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
M

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 5,073
This thread is one reason I hunt alone.


* Information Security Ninja
* NRA Endowment Life Member

* In search of 1 or 2 person lease, 3 hours from Plano, Please PM me
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Mickey Moose] #7137300
04/10/18 11:43 AM
04/10/18 11:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,618
tlk Offline
Veteran Tracker
tlk  Offline
Veteran Tracker

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,618
I love our lease - I can hunt way more property and better deer versus what I could afford to buy.

Anyway we have 12 hunters and I serve as the manager(I pay the same as everyone else - I do not subsidize my cost by passing it on to other members). We do not have designated areas - it is all community blinds.

I collect a lump sum up front for feed from each hunter. We also have buy in fee for any new hunter that goes toward camp expenses like cameras, batteries, etc.

I also collect one payment prior to start of season for electric, water, etc.

Never had a problem collecting it - but it does take some book work and keeping up behind the scene with all the bills, etc.

I then send out a detailed accounting to each member at the end of the season on how and where the money was spent including copies of all feed bills.

If a member did not pay their part then they would not step on the ranch until they did - pretty simple


You can't fix stupid
Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner] #7137325
04/10/18 12:07 PM
04/10/18 12:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 11,272
Bandera, Tx
D
don k Online content
THF Celebrity
don k  Online Content
THF Celebrity
D

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 11,272
Bandera, Tx
I never knew doing something you liked like hunting could be such a problem.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: tlk] #7137385
04/10/18 01:22 PM
04/10/18 01:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,676
A
Always ready 2 hunt Offline
Pro Tracker
Always ready 2 hunt  Offline
Pro Tracker
A

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,676
Originally Posted By: tlk
I love our lease - I can hunt way more property and better deer versus what I could afford to buy.

Anyway we have 12 hunters and I serve as the manager(I pay the same as everyone else - I do not subsidize my cost by passing it on to other members). We do not have designated areas - it is all community blinds.

I collect a lump sum up front for feed from each hunter. We also have buy in fee for any new hunter that goes toward camp expenses like cameras, batteries, etc.

I also collect one payment prior to start of season for electric, water, etc.

Never had a problem collecting it - but it does take some book work and keeping up behind the scene with all the bills, etc.

I then send out a detailed accounting to each member at the end of the season on how and where the money was spent including copies of all feed bills.

If a member did not pay their part then they would not step on the ranch until they did - pretty simple


I totally agree with this ^^^. No drama, good simple & everyone handling their hunting business responsibilities for the enjoyment of all.

Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: don k] #7137413
04/10/18 01:50 PM
04/10/18 01:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,618
tlk Offline
Veteran Tracker
tlk  Offline
Veteran Tracker

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,618
Originally Posted By: don k
I never knew doing something you liked like hunting could be such a problem.


there a lots of things in life I like that can have problems - it is how you handle the problems that matter IMO.
I owned my own ranch once - I liked it a lot but there were still problems. Personally I enjoy sharing a camp and hunting with others that a lease environment provides.


You can't fix stupid
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread


© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
UBB.threads™ 7.6.2