texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
HeliarcHand, Grant123, Bigchief99, Adam210, Wldlife23
64477 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 90,486
stxranchman 53,890
bill oxner 50,360
RKHarm24 44,577
rifleman 44,415
BMD 41,009
SnakeWrangler 40,181
Big Orn 37,484
txshntr 35,379
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics419,482
Posts6,095,201
Members64,477
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness #7131971
04/04/18 03:57 AM
04/04/18 03:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
C
chesterc Offline OP
Woodsman
chesterc  Offline OP
Woodsman
C

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
An interesting thing happened with my new rifle and Iím not sure what to make of it.

I just bought a TC Encore Pro Hunter with a 25-06 Remington barrel. So I get out my Hornady Lock-n-Load O.A.L Gauge with the 25-06 threaded case. I insert a Nosler Partition 115 grain bullet and insert it into the chamber.

I have cleaning rod inserted into the barrel so I can push the bullet back and get a good feel for where the bullet touches the lands. So after a little back and forth and double/triple checking I get a measurement (using a Lock-n-Load bullet comparator on a digital caliper) of 2.882Ē.

Thatís an OOAL of 2.882Ē Ö Ogive Over All Length.

When Iím pushing the bullet forward with the O.A.L gauge I feel absolutely no resistance until the bullet stops all forward travel.

That has the bullet so far out of the case mouth that it just tumbles out of the case. Obviously canít do a load with that. Itís just outrageously long. I tried it a couple of more times and get the same measurement.

Iím using Noslerís loading data so I decide to put together a dummy round to their specified COAL, which is 3.250Ē. I do that and measure it with my Comparator and I get an OOAL of 2.753Ē.

I then put that cartridge into my rifle and try to close the action. Surprise! It wonít close. Well, it closesís but it wonít lock. I have to force it to lock shut. I take out the cartridge and there are marks on the bullet where the lands have pushed against the bullet.

I measure it in the Comparator and itís now 2.740Ē OOAL! I put it back in the rifle and do the same thing again and it shrinks again. Now itís 2.735Ē OOAL Ö which turns out to be as small as it gets.

So what Iíve learned is that the maximum cartridge length (measured to the bullet ogive) for my rifle with that bullet is 2.735Ē OOAL which is 0.147Ē shorter than the O.A.L. Gauge was telling me.

Huh! confused2

Has anyone else used the Hornady O.A.L Gauge on a break-action rifle? Have you had similar results?

Last edited by chesterc; 04/04/18 04:01 AM.
Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7131976
04/04/18 04:10 AM
04/04/18 04:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
Was the round completely in the chamber or was the extractor holding it out some?

Seat a bullet in a case with no primer and no powder. Seat it about 0.050Ē longer than the book max COAL. Color the bullet with a Sharpie or Marksalot. Look for the lands leaving marks. Keep moving it back 0.010Ē at a time until there are no marks. Also, holding the bullet over a kitchen match to cover it in soot works too.


Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7132062
04/04/18 12:04 PM
04/04/18 12:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
patriot07  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
The other thing that can cause problems is if the modified case on your gauge wasn't screwed down tight during the test and then you screw it down before measuring. It'll give the exact results you're seeing.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7132370
04/04/18 05:34 PM
04/04/18 05:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,131
Wills Point
W
wp75169 Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
wp75169  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
W

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,131
Wills Point
I vote extractor as well. It should be simple to remove the extractor for testing then replace it when done.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7132374
04/04/18 05:39 PM
04/04/18 05:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
patriot07  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: patriot07] #7132400
04/04/18 05:55 PM
04/04/18 05:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird] #7132925
04/05/18 01:53 AM
04/05/18 01:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
patriot07  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.
Now I realize what you were saying...thanks.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird] #7132937
04/05/18 02:15 AM
04/05/18 02:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,415
Lubbock Area
C
ckat Online content
Pro Tracker
ckat  Online Content
Pro Tracker
C

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,415
Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.


This is my vote, too...

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7136309
04/09/18 03:48 AM
04/09/18 03:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
C
chesterc Offline OP
Woodsman
chesterc  Offline OP
Woodsman
C

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
Thank you for all the responses. I'll make the measurements with the barrel removed and report back.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird] #7138038
04/11/18 03:26 AM
04/11/18 03:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
C
chesterc Offline OP
Woodsman
chesterc  Offline OP
Woodsman
C

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 130
Dallas
jeffbird, you're correct. It was the extractor holding the case out of the chamber.

First, I measured the same way I did before and I got an OOAL of 2.882" touching the lands.

Then, I removed the barrel and measured again ... OOAL of 2.728". (very close to the measurement of my cartridge where I let the rifle push the bullet into the case, which was 2.735").

I made up a dummy round with an OOAL of 2.728" and put it in the re-assembled rifle. The action closes and locks just fine. When I measure the cartridge after taking it out there is no change in length and no marks on the bullet. So we have a winner!

Thank you to everyone who responded!

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7138148
04/11/18 12:01 PM
04/11/18 12:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
Good morning Chester,

glad that worked out for you.

Seat the bullets 0.010Ē off of contact with the lands and go to town finding a favorite load.

up

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7139211
04/12/18 03:57 PM
04/12/18 03:57 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 825
Texas
S
Smokey Bear Online content
Tracker
Smokey Bear  Online Content
Tracker
S

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 825
Texas
The Hornady OAL guage is a great tool and I use it, but using it with the standard modified case does not give an exact OAL measurement to the lands in your rifle. To obtain the exact measurement with that tool you need to either drill and tap a fire formed case from your rifle or send one to Hornady and they will do it for you, to screw onto the guage. The caliber specific case you buy is universal to fit all rifles that shoot a given SAAMI spec. cartridge. In order to do that the case head to shoulder measurement is generally a little shorter than a case fire formed in your rifle. Which accounts for the seven thousandth difference you observed. If you have the headspace bushings you can compare the two to see what the actual difference is. The measurement you get with the tool is more than adequate for what Most want to know before commencing with a new bullet though.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7139279
04/12/18 05:31 PM
04/12/18 05:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
patriot07  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
Smokey Bear - I had wondered about that as well. I thought about trying to do a shoulder measurement on a fire formed case and the modified case and just adding that to the lands distance from the gauge for my loading purposes? Seems like it would work.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7139294
04/12/18 05:43 PM
04/12/18 05:43 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 825
Texas
S
Smokey Bear Online content
Tracker
Smokey Bear  Online Content
Tracker
S

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 825
Texas
Patriot, it is not necessary unless you are trying to seat Bullets in the lands, which I do not want to do. Inking or smoking the bullet like jeffbird showed is the most accurate IMO. It is also a good bit more time consuming. I just roll with the number I get with the OAL guage and seat deeper from there.

Last edited by Smokey Bear; 04/12/18 05:50 PM.

Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7139322
04/12/18 06:09 PM
04/12/18 06:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
patriot07  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,596
Royse City, TX
Yeah I suppose the specific number isn't important unless you're jamming them into the lands, like you said.

Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc] #7139692
04/13/18 12:10 AM
04/13/18 12:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
J
jeffbird Online content
Veteran Tracker
jeffbird  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,469
Knowing the specific number for base to ogive to make contact with the lands is very handy for knowing where to start when changing bullets.

My default starting point for working with a new bullet, any bullet, is 0.010" off of the lands.

Knowing that measurement makes adjusting the seating die quick and easy with the new bullet.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread


© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
UBB.threads™ 7.6.2