texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
dtd13, Wreckt, sunshinewireline, tractorking1, stackinbillz
64486 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 90,501
stxranchman 53,900
bill oxner 50,383
RKHarm24 44,577
rifleman 44,415
BMD 41,009
SnakeWrangler 40,242
Big Orn 37,484
txshntr 35,379
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics419,560
Posts6,096,332
Members64,486
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? #7131522
04/03/18 07:44 PM
04/03/18 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
H
huck18 Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
huck18  Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
H

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
I'm new to reloading (have only reloaded a few hundred rounds of plinking ammo for an AR). I'm using a Hornady single stage press and Hornady custom full length dies.

I'm in the process of trying to find a load for my 6.5 creedmoor (143 ELD-X and once fired Hornady brass). My issue is after I did a full length resize of my once fired brass the shoulder did not bump back at all. Using a Hornady head space gauge the brass measures the same length after resizing as it did before the resizing. This is with the die all the way down flush with the shell holder and slightly backed off a half turn as well. Is this normal? Does it take more than one use for the brass to grow enough to need to bump the shoulder? The resized brass seems to chamber and eject with no issues. Also do I need to trim the brass after one use or can I get a few uses before trimming?

I've read that you want to bump the shoulder back 0.002, but with my die this seems impossible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131533
04/03/18 07:53 PM
04/03/18 07:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 28,857
Texas
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
redchevy  Offline
THF Celebrity
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 28,857
Texas
Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: redchevy] #7131549
04/03/18 08:04 PM
04/03/18 08:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,049
Texas
kmon1 Online shocked
junior
kmon1  Online Shocked
junior

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,049
Texas
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.


Yup, what he said

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131554
04/03/18 08:09 PM
04/03/18 08:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,139
Wills Point
W
wp75169 Online content
THF Trophy Hunter
wp75169  Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
W

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,139
Wills Point
Most books will offer information on max/min lengths which can be used as a guideline for when to trim.

Some trim every firing, I seldom trim.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131556
04/03/18 08:11 PM
04/03/18 08:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,819
The Lone Star State
B
Bar-D Offline
Pro Tracker
Bar-D  Offline
Pro Tracker
B

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,819
The Lone Star State
When properly adjusted, you should feel the ram "cam over" against the die.


People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: redchevy] #7131575
04/03/18 08:36 PM
04/03/18 08:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
H
huck18 Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
huck18  Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
H

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.


I have tried it all three ways.

Ram to the highest point with die flush.
Ram to the highest point with die backed off half a turn.
Ram to the highest point with die screwed down a half turn.

All three produced the same results.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131613
04/03/18 09:14 PM
04/03/18 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 28,857
Texas
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
redchevy  Offline
THF Celebrity
R

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 28,857
Texas
The way you should do it is with the ram at highest point and shell holder in screw the die in till it touches then lower the ram and screw the die in a little more, think a 1/8 or so.

If that still doesn't do anything I would call Hornady and inquire about setup/possible error in the die and/or have you rifle checked for headspace.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131619
04/03/18 09:23 PM
04/03/18 09:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,049
Texas
kmon1 Online shocked
junior
kmon1  Online Shocked
junior

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,049
Texas
Make sure you read their directions and follow them.

I have had a couple rifles that you could just neck size and shoot as the spent casing chambered without any difficulty and did the same after reloading them, tight chambers behave differently than one that lets the case expand amore.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131644
04/03/18 10:07 PM
04/03/18 10:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,388
Wylie, TX
J
Judd Offline
THF Celebrity
Judd  Offline
THF Celebrity
J

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,388
Wylie, TX
I’ve also had dies where I’ve had to either have the shell holder shaved or the bottom of the die. It isn’t normal but it does happen.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131688
04/03/18 10:50 PM
04/03/18 10:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 67
S
Sigmund Offline
Outdoorsman
Sigmund  Offline
Outdoorsman
S

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 67
I had this problem when using the hornady dies with an RCBS shell holder. Got a hornady shell holder and I could get it to bump the shoulder just before the ram would cam over.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131701
04/03/18 11:06 PM
04/03/18 11:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,971
The Woodlands, Tx
P
postoak Offline
Veteran Tracker
postoak  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,971
The Woodlands, Tx
Have you tried screwing the die all the way down to the raised shell holder, lowering the ram and then turning the die down an additional turn?

What you said at the beginning about screwing the die all the way down to the shell holder and then backed off a half turn is all wrong.

If what I said to do doesn't get you some set back then you may have an undersized chamber or you need to switch shell holders like Sigmund said.


Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131720
04/03/18 11:35 PM
04/03/18 11:35 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 826
Texas
S
Smokey Bear Offline
Tracker
Smokey Bear  Offline
Tracker
S

Joined: May 2017
Posts: 826
Texas
Read the instructions with the die set. Put the shell holder in the press. Raise the ram to the highest point just before the press cams over. Screw the die down till it touches the shellholder. Tighten the lock ring. That is setting up for full length size per Hornady instructions. Measure before and after. Screw the die further in to bump the shoulder further. Back it out to not bump the shoulder as far.

My advice to gain a better understanding is sacrifice a piece of brass to learn. Set the die up as described to full length size, then back it out two full turns. Ink the shoulder on a case with a sharpie. Run it through the die. A portion of the neck will be sized. The shoulder will be untouched. With your head space comparator measure the shoulder. Screw it in a quarter turn more then re-ink and resize. Measure what you get. The ink will tell you when the shoulder of the case makes contact with the die. Keep repeating till you end up with the measurement you are looking for. The neck on your case will be way over worked and should either be discarded or annealed but at the end of the excercise you should have an understanding of what is happening and how to set up your die.

Last edited by Smokey Bear; 04/03/18 11:37 PM.

Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131809
04/04/18 12:47 AM
04/04/18 12:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Offline
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: huck18
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.


I have tried it all three ways.

Ram to the highest point with die flush.
Ram to the highest point with die backed off half a turn.
Ram to the highest point with die screwed down a half turn.

All three produced the same results.


So you have felt cam-over? This requires a significant amount of force, and this action is why loading benches have to be By-Gawd strong. It is a bit violent on some cases.



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131818
04/04/18 12:54 AM
04/04/18 12:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,956
Lewisville, TX
C
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity
ChadTRG42  Offline
THF Celebrity
C

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,956
Lewisville, TX
Cam over or not, the die MUST make hard contact with the shell holder to get a FL size. You NEVER back the die out half a turn after making contact with the shell holder. You go down further, or until you have a proper position with the ram making contact with the shell holder.



Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131867
04/04/18 01:41 AM
04/04/18 01:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 67
S
Sigmund Offline
Outdoorsman
Sigmund  Offline
Outdoorsman
S

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 67
I had to wait until I got home to check this, because I couldn’t remember earlier...

I also have the hornady “custom grade” dies.

What headspace bushing are you using? Seems like this could be an issue if you were using one to big?

I believe it should be the 0.400” for the 6.5 creedmoor.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/_CC_Drawings/Rifle/6_5%20Creedmoor.pdf

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7131878
04/04/18 01:49 AM
04/04/18 01:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,781
Houston, TX
K
Kawabuggy Offline
Pro Tracker
Kawabuggy  Offline
Pro Tracker
K

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,781
Houston, TX
As you suspected, on new brass it may take several firings before it is necessary to bump the shoulder back. At this point, try just neck sizing and firing the brass once, or twice, more and then using your head space gauge check the brass to see if the shoulder is moving forward. Keep neck sizing until it becomes stiff, or sticky, to close the bolt on a fired piece of brass.

At this point, I would not worry about fiddling with die adjustment.. Shoot the brass some more and you will see it begin to grow in length until you have to bump the shoulder.

Like someone mentioned above, with the ram all the way up, screw the die in until it makes hard contact with the shell holder. You can leave it there, or lower the ram and run the die in just a tad more (I NEVER do this as I have never found a need, or reason, to). I also never press my brass until it "cams over" as some people mention. When you figure out the length of your chamber, you can then make the brass the exact, correct, length each time for your specific rifle. I can assure you that unless you have a custom (tight) chamber you will not be F/L sizing your brass in the future with the die making contact with the shell holder. It will be turned out/away from the shell holder so that you are not pushing the shoulder back too far. NO, it won't hurt anything to F/L size the brass this way, but eventually, you may want to just re-size the brass to be the best fit for your chamber. Only through repeated firings, and careful measuring of the fired brass can you figure out how to re-size your brass.

If you can find a piece of brass that has been fired in someone else's rifle-that has a longer chamber-you can then measure that brass using your head space gauge set up, and then slowly bump the shoulder back until you get that piece of brass to fit your chamber. Then, you will know the length of your chamber for future brass resizing.


A hog is nothing more than a bullet receptacle.
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: Kawabuggy] #7131928
04/04/18 02:32 AM
04/04/18 02:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Offline
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
^^Whole lot I disagree with there.



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7132042
04/04/18 11:37 AM
04/04/18 11:37 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,643
Houston
K
Korean Redneck Offline
Veteran Tracker
Korean Redneck  Offline
Veteran Tracker
K

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,643
Houston
I can't tell if the cam over thing on a hornady press is causing issues. One trick I do on my hornady classic press is put the handle all the way down, screw in the die until it make contact. Then I gently back the die like 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time and then try to raise the handle. I keep doing this until it just barely makes it back over the cam with a little resistance.
Btw, I'm still very new to reloading so maybe this is not even an issue for u.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: Smokey Bear] #7132142
04/04/18 01:21 PM
04/04/18 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,971
The Woodlands, Tx
P
postoak Offline
Veteran Tracker
postoak  Offline
Veteran Tracker
P

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,971
The Woodlands, Tx
Originally Posted By: Smokey Bear
Read the instructions with the die set. Put the shell holder in the press. Raise the ram to the highest point just before the press cams over. Screw the die down till it touches the shellholder. Tighten the lock ring. That is setting up for full length size per Hornady instructions. Measure before and after. Screw the die further in to bump the shoulder further. Back it out to not bump the shoulder as far.

My advice to gain a better understanding is sacrifice a piece of brass to learn. Set the die up as described to full length size, then back it out two full turns. Ink the shoulder on a case with a sharpie. Run it through the die. A portion of the neck will be sized. The shoulder will be untouched. With your head space comparator measure the shoulder. Screw it in a quarter turn more then re-ink and resize. Measure what you get. The ink will tell you when the shoulder of the case makes contact with the die. Keep repeating till you end up with the measurement you are looking for. The neck on your case will be way over worked and should either be discarded or annealed but at the end of the excercise you should have an understanding of what is happening and how to set up your die.


That is not what he should be doing. He needs to go past the point the shell holder and die contact each other. No lock ring tightening until he has gotten the amount of shoulder set back he wants.


Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: postoak] #7132145
04/04/18 01:24 PM
04/04/18 01:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Offline
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
^^Right



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: Sigmund] #7132166
04/04/18 01:44 PM
04/04/18 01:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
H
huck18 Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
huck18  Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
H

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: Sigmund
I had to wait until I got home to check this, because I couldn’t remember earlier...

I also have the hornady “custom grade” dies.

What headspace bushing are you using? Seems like this could be an issue if you were using one to big?

I believe it should be the 0.400” for the 6.5 creedmoor.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/_CC_Drawings/Rifle/6_5%20Creedmoor.pdf


I was using the B350 hornady headspace gauge.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: FiremanJG] #7132172
04/04/18 01:50 PM
04/04/18 01:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
H
huck18 Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
huck18  Offline OP
Veteran Tracker
H

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,299
Ft. Worth, Texas
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: huck18
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.


I have tried it all three ways.

Ram to the highest point with die flush.
Ram to the highest point with die backed off half a turn.
Ram to the highest point with die screwed down a half turn.

All three produced the same results.


So you have felt cam-over? This requires a significant amount of force, and this action is why loading benches have to be By-Gawd strong. It is a bit violent on some cases.


You guys helped me figure it out. I just needed to go down a little bit further with my die. I was getting it to cam-over before, but it was very slight. I lowered it down a bit more and had to put a little more muscle into it and felt it cam-over much harder and this is got me a 0.003 bump back. I was being a little soft with it before and figured if it was that hard then something probably wasn't right.

Thanks for all the help.

Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7132176
04/04/18 01:54 PM
04/04/18 01:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Offline
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
up

You can back out a bit and get the bump down to .001" to .002", with enough trial and error.



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: huck18] #7132181
04/04/18 01:56 PM
04/04/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,884
In the Right lane
D
DStroud Offline
Pro Tracker
DStroud  Offline
Pro Tracker
D

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,884
In the Right lane
Just to save someone future grief not ALL dies are adjusted the same ex: RCBS and a few others say until it touches shellholder then adjust down until shoulder is set where the brass chambers easily.
Well if you use that method with a Whidden die your round probaly won’t fire as you will have set the shoulder back too much. None of my Whidden FL dies touch the shellholder. I would guess they have about a thickness of a dime’s clearance. That’s why Whidden sends you a headspace gauge with each die.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder? [Re: DStroud] #7132243
04/04/18 02:55 PM
04/04/18 02:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
F
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity
FiremanJG  Offline
THF Celebrity
F

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 26,805
Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: DStroud
headspace gauge


I can nearly say that tool is an "always use this when setting up a sizing die".

Only time to not use it, might be when FL sizing brass for a gas gun.



800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread


© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
UBB.threads™ 7.6.2