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Mar 25th, 2012
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with or w/o safety #7125075
03/27/18 10:57 PM
03/27/18 10:57 PM
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I was killing time again looking at gun parts and am now curious. I see triggers w and w/o. Who uses what and why?

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125082
03/27/18 11:01 PM
03/27/18 11:01 PM
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Wylie, TX
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w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125093
03/27/18 11:07 PM
03/27/18 11:07 PM
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I accidentally bought one with a bolt release , make sure you get a model without one if your action comes with

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125101
03/27/18 11:13 PM
03/27/18 11:13 PM
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Wise Co.
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You can get a Timney for a 98 Mauser action with or without safety. The bolt shroud can be had in something more or less original configuration, converted to a Model 70 2-position type, or replaced with a custom shroud with a full 3-position safety. Or you may be wanting a trigger for an Interarms Mark X or a Remington 798, in which case you might want top go with the safety integrated into the trigger.




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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Brother in-law] #7125146
03/27/18 11:55 PM
03/27/18 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
I accidentally bought one with a bolt release , make sure you get a model without one if your action comes with


Hmmmm...I may have a Jewell for sale shortly...Didn't think about that..






Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Judd] #7125148
03/27/18 11:56 PM
03/27/18 11:56 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

To each their own.


This.

For many of my rifles, I could get by with no safety, as I leave the bolts open 99.9% of the time, and the selector on fire.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Judd] #7125187
03/28/18 12:23 AM
03/28/18 12:23 AM
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Lewisville, TX
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Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.


Honestly, this is me. I don't use a safety at all. When I am in the deer stand the rifle is chambered and hot, safety off. The rifle goes from a safe position to out the window and ready to shoot. When I get ready to leave the deer stand, the round is un-chambered and goes back down into the magazine and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. The rifle is "safe" and ready with a quick cycle of the bolt. This is how I operate my rifles most of the time.

When general shooting, the rifle is unloaded until time to shoot. When I am ready a round is chambered and ready to shoot. Same for comps.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Brother in-law] #7125217
03/28/18 12:49 AM
03/28/18 12:49 AM
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San Angelo
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Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
I accidentally bought one with a bolt release , make sure you get a model without one if your action comes with

Is it not removable?


Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Judd] #7125504
03/28/18 12:28 PM
03/28/18 12:28 PM
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Ft. Worth
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Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.

That's what I thought. I too could get by without the safety as the bolt is only closed when ready to fire. A trigger with safety can be treated like one without by leaving it in fire all the time. So, does the safety cause an issue for competition guys? Why not have the option at all?

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: bphillips] #7125517
03/28/18 12:37 PM
03/28/18 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: bphillips
Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
I accidentally bought one with a bolt release , make sure you get a model without one if your action comes with

Is it not removable?


Yes I just have to get in them and do it

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: ChadTRG42] #7125545
03/28/18 12:49 PM
03/28/18 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.


Honestly, this is me. I don't use a safety at all. When I am in the deer stand the rifle is chambered and hot, safety off. The rifle goes from a safe position to out the window and ready to shoot. When I get ready to leave the deer stand, the round is un-chambered and goes back down into the magazine and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. The rifle is "safe" and ready with a quick cycle of the bolt. This is how I operate my rifles most of the time.

When general shooting, the rifle is unloaded until time to shoot. When I am ready a round is chambered and ready to shoot. Same for comps.


That is simply not a good practice. Having a loaded and ready to fire rifle in that is not under your complete control violates the most basic rules of firearms safety. You should at the very least have the bolt open.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7125560
03/28/18 01:03 PM
03/28/18 01:03 PM
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Wills Point
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.


Honestly, this is me. I don't use a safety at all. When I am in the deer stand the rifle is chambered and hot, safety off. The rifle goes from a safe position to out the window and ready to shoot. When I get ready to leave the deer stand, the round is un-chambered and goes back down into the magazine and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. The rifle is "safe" and ready with a quick cycle of the bolt. This is how I operate my rifles most of the time.

When general shooting, the rifle is unloaded until time to shoot. When I am ready a round is chambered and ready to shoot. Same for comps.


That is simply not a good practice. Having a loaded and ready to fire rifle in that is not under your complete control violates the most basic rules of firearms safety. You should at the very least have the bolt open.


Seriously, I donít think he came across as advocating that behavior he was simply stating what he does in a deer stand alone. Many many people hunt with their weapon ready to fire. I do not. He also stated when not hunting his rifle is otherwise unloaded until heís ready to shoot.

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125574
03/28/18 01:15 PM
03/28/18 01:15 PM
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Murphy, TX Dickens county
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Safety.


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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7125593
03/28/18 01:41 PM
03/28/18 01:41 PM
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Lewisville, TX
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.


Honestly, this is me. I don't use a safety at all. When I am in the deer stand the rifle is chambered and hot, safety off. The rifle goes from a safe position to out the window and ready to shoot. When I get ready to leave the deer stand, the round is un-chambered and goes back down into the magazine and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. The rifle is "safe" and ready with a quick cycle of the bolt. This is how I operate my rifles most of the time.

When general shooting, the rifle is unloaded until time to shoot. When I am ready a round is chambered and ready to shoot. Same for comps.


That is simply not a good practice. Having a loaded and ready to fire rifle in that is not under your complete control violates the most basic rules of firearms safety. You should at the very least have the bolt open.


What? Having a safe weapon all the time with no round in the chamber? Or having a hot weapon when I'm hunting by myself with the rifle at my ready? And the weapon is under my complete control the entire time. When needed to go safe, the bolt is lifted very quickly. I don't mess with the safety, especially since there have been documented cases of weapons firing when the safety is engaged, which has happened to me. I think my practice of weapon handling "when hunting" by myself is a very safe practice.

Oh, and I had to click on your post to see it, since you are one of my ignored users. And sure enough, I should have just let it go.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125606
03/28/18 01:49 PM
03/28/18 01:49 PM
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Wylie, TX
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Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.

That's what I thought. I too could get by without the safety as the bolt is only closed when ready to fire. A trigger with safety can be treated like one without by leaving it in fire all the time. So, does the safety cause an issue for competition guys? Why not have the option at all?


I wouldn't say it creates and issue but if you play timed games and some how some way your safety is turned on...it will cost you time and potentially points because you weren't being able to get off as many rounds.

It's not cosmetically pleasing to have a safety stem up next to a beautifully polished action either grin You know, doesn't matter if you win or lose you have to look good.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7125633
03/28/18 02:13 PM
03/28/18 02:13 PM
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Judd, I forgot about the looking good some folks must have. I just stand next to the ugliest guy I see during the that part of judging. The trigger I just bought has safety but Iíll rarely use it. I really donít give a shoot what it looks like. To sum it up, safety for safety and no safety for looks and fear of it being turned on during timed competition. Thanks for clarification.

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Judd] #7125734
03/28/18 03:19 PM
03/28/18 03:19 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted By: Judd
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.

That's what I thought. I too could get by without the safety as the bolt is only closed when ready to fire. A trigger with safety can be treated like one without by leaving it in fire all the time. So, does the safety cause an issue for competition guys? Why not have the option at all?


I wouldn't say it creates and issue but if you play timed games and some how some way your safety is turned on...it will cost you time and potentially points because you weren't being able to get off as many rounds.


^^This has happened to all of us at some point. My competition rifle has not had the safety selector touched in years, it is always on "fire". Those type matches have strict rules of open bolts. Grounded rifle, mag out bolt back, coming up to the line, mag out bolt back, you are told when to insert the mag, and the bolt is still back. Once time starts the bolt is still back, until your eye is looking down the scope at the target. When moving positions, the bolt is back, and again, is not closed until you're looking at the target. There really is no point in touching the safety selector, ever.

My weekly carry rifles are treated the same way. Traveling in the truck, UTV, tractor, or walking, the selector is on "fire" and the bolt is back.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: FiremanJG] #7126631
03/29/18 02:30 AM
03/29/18 02:30 AM
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Cedar Park, TX
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Judd
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Originally Posted By: Judd
w/o safety is a comp trigger or a guy who doesn't close the bolt and keeps it open until it's time to go hot.

Too each their own.

That's what I thought. I too could get by without the safety as the bolt is only closed when ready to fire. A trigger with safety can be treated like one without by leaving it in fire all the time. So, does the safety cause an issue for competition guys? Why not have the option at all?


I wouldn't say it creates and issue but if you play timed games and some how some way your safety is turned on...it will cost you time and potentially points because you weren't being able to get off as many rounds.


^^This has happened to all of us at some point. My competition rifle has not had the safety selector touched in years, it is always on "fire". Those type matches have strict rules of open bolts. Grounded rifle, mag out bolt back, coming up to the line, mag out bolt back, you are told when to insert the mag, and the bolt is still back. Once time starts the bolt is still back, until your eye is looking down the scope at the target. When moving positions, the bolt is back, and again, is not closed until you're looking at the target. There really is no point in touching the safety selector, ever.

My weekly carry rifles are treated the same way. Traveling in the truck, UTV, tractor, or walking, the selector is on "fire" and the bolt is back.


Are you not worried about dirt, dust and other debris getting in the action or barrel when riding in the UTV or tractor?

I've always been a safety guy and depending on where I'm hunting, don't unload until I get to the truck. Some walks are long and may scare up something to shoot at, of course need to know that it's safe to shoot, (know what's behind my target).

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7126656
03/29/18 02:44 AM
03/29/18 02:44 AM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted By: Scott W
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Judd
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
That's what I thought. I too could get by without the safety as the bolt is only closed when ready to fire. A trigger with safety can be treated like one without by leaving it in fire all the time. So, does the safety cause an issue for competition guys? Why not have the option at all?


I wouldn't say it creates and issue but if you play timed games and some how some way your safety is turned on...it will cost you time and potentially points because you weren't being able to get off as many rounds.


^^This has happened to all of us at some point. My competition rifle has not had the safety selector touched in years, it is always on "fire". Those type matches have strict rules of open bolts. Grounded rifle, mag out bolt back, coming up to the line, mag out bolt back, you are told when to insert the mag, and the bolt is still back. Once time starts the bolt is still back, until your eye is looking down the scope at the target. When moving positions, the bolt is back, and again, is not closed until you're looking at the target. There really is no point in touching the safety selector, ever.

My weekly carry rifles are treated the same way. Traveling in the truck, UTV, tractor, or walking, the selector is on "fire" and the bolt is back.


Are you not worried about dirt, dust and other debris getting in the action or barrel when riding in the UTV or tractor?

I've always been a safety guy and depending on where I'm hunting, don't unload until I get to the truck. Some walks are long and may scare up something to shoot at, of course need to know that it's safe to shoot, (know what's behind my target).


No, not worried. I just know I have to pull the bolt and clean the action frequently. That is free as compared to an accidental discharge, especially into someone, or something of importance.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7128241
03/30/18 10:40 PM
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All my long guns have safety's. I get not using the safety at the range in lieu of an open bolt. In the field while hunting I use the safety every trip. If the safety is not reliable, I replace it with one that functions properly. A closed bolt makes more sense for most of the hunting I do.


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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7128400
03/31/18 01:33 AM
03/31/18 01:33 AM
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The reason I like Springfields and Mausers, one anyway is that the safety's are positive, locking the firing pin and easy to move to fire without making a sound. I see no reason not to use a safety at all times the rifle is loaded until you need to shoot.

Re: with or w/o safety [Re: rickt300] #7128442
03/31/18 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
I see no reason not to use a safety at all times the rifle is loaded until you need to shoot.


Safeties sometimes fail, causing accidental discharges, and sometimes dead people. Open bolts never fail, that's the reason.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: FiremanJG] #7128495
03/31/18 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
[quote=rickt300]I see no reason not to use a safety at all times the rifle is loaded until you need to shoot.


Safeties sometimes fail, causing accidental discharges, and sometimes dead people. Open bolts never fail, that's the reason. [/quote

Different settings definitely require different precautions. Anything mechanical can and will eventually fail but the safety is a feature that makes handling a loaded firearm safer that I take advantage of. The above poster is spot on in his assessment of the robustness of the Mauser style safety. Ultimately, failure to control the muzzle is the biggest underlying factor in accidental shootings.
Edit to add-if I were operating a shooting range I would definitely have an open bolt policy.

Last edited by Smokey Bear; 03/31/18 02:56 AM.

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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: Smokey Bear] #7128505
03/31/18 03:07 AM
03/31/18 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: Smokey Bear
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
[quote=rickt300]I see no reason not to use a safety at all times the rifle is loaded until you need to shoot.


Safeties sometimes fail, causing accidental discharges, and sometimes dead people. Open bolts never fail, that's the reason. [/quote

Different settings definitely require different precautions. Anything mechanical can and will eventually fail but the safety is a feature that makes handling a loaded firearm safer that I take advantage of. The above poster is spot on in his assessment of the robustness of the Mauser style safety. Ultimately, failure to control the muzzle is the biggest underlying factor in accidental shootings.
Edit to add-if I were operating a shooting range I would definitely have an open bolt policy.


I do not bash any safety selector other than Rem 700. Millions work, every day. But just like NOT driving drunk is way safer than driving drunk, and relying on a seatbelt and air bags.



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Re: with or w/o safety [Re: garyrapp55] #7128536
03/31/18 03:55 AM
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The only 700 safeties I have seen fail had a trigger job by an amateur gunsmith. Scared the crap out of all of us who were present too. I actually liked the old Remington trigger/safety, however I have replaced them all with Timney's as a precaution. So your concern is not unwarranted. To my knowledge the new Remington trigger is safe but can not easily be lightened up enough to suit my taste.

Last edited by Smokey Bear; 03/31/18 04:23 AM.

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