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Mar 25th, 2012
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Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? #7110888
03/14/18 03:54 PM
03/14/18 03:54 PM
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Has anyone done a field results comparison of the 103/108 ELDs (G1 .512/.536)to the 140/143 (.610/.625)? I understand the difference in BC, but I wondered just how much the added velocity would make up for it between 500-1000 yards.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7110893
03/14/18 03:57 PM
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With a few bullets the 6mm can be better otherwise they are about equal. The 6mm will have less drop and maybe .1 less wind drift depending. 6.5 will have more recoil and energy on target.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7110937
03/14/18 04:19 PM
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Good question. Comparing the 6mm CM to the 6.5 CM, the 6mm is fast and gets to the target quickly inside of 600 yards. The 6mm is flatter and has less wind drift. If you were setting up a round for simply target shooting inside of about 600 yards, the 6mm CM is a good one- light recoil, fast speed, good BC. Most competition matches are won or lost inside of about 500-600 yards anyway. But, the 6mm CM starts to lose out past that, IMO. The light weight bullets of 105 grains begin to have more drift and less energy on target out past 600. Impacts or misses become very difficult to see. The 6.5 CM has more weight in this area and will improve on down range performance at longer ranges. You don't lose out on much with the 6.5 CM either. There is a little more drop inside of 500-600 yards, but there's not enough difference, IMO, to want to go 6mm. Watching these 2 rounds through a spotting scope and seeing bullet trace go down range, the 6mm CM is certainly flatter and quicker. But I want the added weight of the 140 grain class bullets with the higher BC in for me. There comes a point where you simply go too light for good performance down range, and I think the 6mm is right at that mark.

There are some good shooters that use the 6mm CM, and it is very effective. A lot of the comp shooters these days are fully sponsored with multiple barrels, unlimited powder, and unlimited bullets, and can practice and compete with multiple barrels. So barrel life is not a huge consideration to some of these shooters. To the average shooter, you have to consider this. A 6mm CM should get about 1000-1400 rounds ish, and a 6.5 CM should easily go 2500-3000+ rounds. So, that's a huge factor also.



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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111008
03/14/18 05:21 PM
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To go with what Chad said, you can do really well with a 6mm inside 800, in high wind. The 105's get wind drifted too bad, the 115's don't get blown around as much. But the 140's and 147's out of the 6.5mm hold up better in my opinion. Year before last I shot my 6.5 Creedmoor on Saturday and a friend's 6X47 with 105's on Sunday. My 140's had an MV of 2800, the 105's had an MV of 3030. 700 yards, and less I was really liking the 6mm, past that, I decided I did not want to own one. We had a stage that was 800 to 1260 yards, and the wind was 20 mph +, the 6mm was getting its' butt kicked. My friend shot right after me with a 6.5mm and hit about 70% to 80%, after I stumbled through with a 6mm and a 30% hit ratio. I need to try someone's 6mm with 115's and see what I see, but as of right now, I have no intention of leaving 6.5mm and going to 6mm.

BC and MV are quantifiable, weight is not, as far as I know. And as far as I've seen, take equal BC and MV, but one is heavier. The heavier bullet wind drifts less. That's not difficult for anyone to grasp.



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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111025
03/14/18 05:40 PM
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115 dtac, 110 smk, 110 jlk and 105 rdf offer a good advantage for the 6mm. Lowest bc of the bunch is the rdf at .283 highest is 110's in the .303 area with 115 pretty much there at .302. Those are some very respectable bc numbers especially when going 2900 plus.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111172
03/14/18 07:23 PM
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Last year when patriot07 and myself took the precision shooting class at JG's place, I was running a 243 with 105 amax and 07 was running 6.5 with Hornady 140 eld match ammo. I check his numbers and the 243 was a full 1 mil flatter than 6.5 at 800 yds. I was running at 2980 fps and not sure what the Hornady match ammo was. It wasn't windy that day so can't tell you about the difference in wind drift. I no these aren't the bullets or calibers your asking about but similar.

Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: jlsbassman] #7111182
03/14/18 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: jlsbassman
Last year when patriot07 and myself took the precision shooting class at JG's place, I was running a 243 with 105 amax and 07 was running 6.5 with Hornady 140 eld match ammo. I check his numbers and the 243 was a full 1 mil flatter than 6.5 at 800 yds. I was running at 2980 fps and not sure what the Hornady match ammo was. It wasn't windy that day so can't tell you about the difference in wind drift. I no these aren't the bullets or calibers your asking about but similar.


The Hornady 6.5 CM ammo I have chrono'd for a customer with the 143 ELD-X and 140 BLHP Black ammo were running 2540 and 2560 fps. So, it wouldn't be a fair comparison with Hornady factory 6.5 CM ammo.



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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111578
03/15/18 01:52 AM
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Try your ballistics with the 22 Creedmoor running the new Sierra 95gr with .600 BC at 3150fps and see how it compares. cool


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111655
03/15/18 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Has anyone done a field results comparison of the 103/108 ELDs (G1 .512/.536)to the 140/143 (.610/.625)? I understand the difference in BC, but I wondered just how much the added velocity would make up for it between 500-1000 yards.


I always use the G7, it saves me alot calculating when building a range chart. I personally think the both calibers would be superior in a 308 parent case but then you would run into mag length issues. 260 and 243

Last edited by spg; 03/15/18 02:59 AM.
Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: DStroud] #7111768
03/15/18 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: DStroud
Try your ballistics with the 22 Creedmoor running the new Sierra 95gr with .600 BC at 3150fps and see how it compares. cool


I'll know before too long hopefully...... Congrats on the calling contest win recently.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111902
03/15/18 01:52 PM
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Good articles on this topic on Precisionrifleblog.




Originally Posted By: syncerus
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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: Big Fitz] #7111907
03/15/18 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Big Fitz
Good articles on this topic on Precisionrifleblog.





Not a ton of guys running hybrids these days. I know a few but they are pointing them and bumping the bc up to the 290 area.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7111927
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115 dtac at 2950 vs 140 hybrid at 2800. Most dtac or 6mm shooters are running a touch faster in the 2980-3050 range but this gives a slight idea when newer bullet designs are compared.



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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: dee] #7111964
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Originally Posted By: dee
[quote=Big Fitz]Good articles on this topic on Precisionrifleblog.

Not a ton of guys running hybrids these days. I know a few but they are pointing them and bumping the bc up to the 290 area.


What are they running in 6mm? 6.5mm?


Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink
Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: dee] #7112013
03/15/18 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
115 dtac at 2950 vs 140 hybrid at 2800. Most dtac or 6mm shooters are running a touch faster in the 2980-3050 range but this gives a slight idea when newer bullet designs are compared.




You let me down. Wind matters. Where's the wind?

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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: Big Fitz] #7112014
03/15/18 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: Big Fitz
Originally Posted By: dee
[quote=Big Fitz]Good articles on this topic on Precisionrifleblog.

Not a ton of guys running hybrids these days. I know a few but they are pointing them and bumping the bc up to the 290 area.


What are they running in 6mm? 6.5mm?


115 gr DTAC.

6.5mm, 140 ELD-M, 142 SMKs, 147 ELD-M, probably some Bergers in the mix. Lots of 6.5mm bullets to choose from. You know me, I'm going to Hornady first, they're easy to make shoot, and have a great BC. grin



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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: FiremanJG] #7112053
03/15/18 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: dee
115 dtac at 2950 vs 140 hybrid at 2800. Most dtac or 6mm shooters are running a touch faster in the 2980-3050 range but this gives a slight idea when newer bullet designs are compared.




You let me down. Wind matters. Where's the wind?

peep


That's wind and drop. Wind is a 10mph full value. Wind is solid line while drop is dotted.

Last edited by dee; 03/15/18 04:11 PM.

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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: Big Fitz] #7112059
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Originally Posted By: Big Fitz
Originally Posted By: dee
[quote=Big Fitz]Good articles on this topic on Precisionrifleblog.

Not a ton of guys running hybrids these days. I know a few but they are pointing them and bumping the bc up to the 290 area.


What are they running in 6mm? 6.5mm?


Still seeing a lot of 140 hybrids but there's a good mix of 140-143 eld. Of course there's the 130 from prime too. Speed on the 6.5 typically is around 2800 lime your graph but I know a ton of 6.5x47 guys running in the 2700-2750 range and a lot of creed in the 2750 area. Mainly for reliability in rain but it helps brass life a lot too. Some guys over on the east coast have been running 135jlk too but not a ton as I've seen more data with them floating around the saum guys.


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Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7113335
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I was looking at these two calibers as far as hunting coyotes and antelope. using the same bullet [100 grns] which one would be better at say 500 yards I was leaning towards the 6mm creedmoor it seams to have a little more energy than the 243 or 6mm rem without going the Ackley way I realy don't target shoot
thanks

Re: Creedmoor - 6mm vs 6.5mm? [Re: ChadTRG42] #7114896
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: jlsbassman
Last year when patriot07 and myself took the precision shooting class at JG's place, I was running a 243 with 105 amax and 07 was running 6.5 with Hornady 140 eld match ammo. I check his numbers and the 243 was a full 1 mil flatter than 6.5 at 800 yds. I was running at 2980 fps and not sure what the Hornady match ammo was. It wasn't windy that day so can't tell you about the difference in wind drift. I no these aren't the bullets or calibers your asking about but similar.


The Hornady 6.5 CM ammo I have chrono'd for a customer with the 143 ELD-X and 140 BLHP Black ammo were running 2540 and 2560 fps. So, it wouldn't be a fair comparison with Hornady factory 6.5 CM ammo.
I need to put a chrono on the factory ammo and my reloads to see what they are running. I was surprised that the 243 was so much flatter, but I love my 6.5 and I still think it's a fantastic combination of low recoil, good energy on target, and good long range ballistics. Generally speaking, it seems like the 6CM was designed as a lower recoil alternative to the 6.5, and I just don't know if there is a need for another recoil drop past the 6.5, especially if you're trading off performance to get it. But I can see where folks like it at short/medium ranges.

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