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Mar 25th, 2012
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"MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" #7105983
03/09/18 02:20 PM
03/09/18 02:20 PM
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chital_shikari Offline OP
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I saw Chad's response to Buzzsaw's post about 140gr ELD-M ammo and had a discussion about it with my dad. Then I asked him if Browning rifles were made in USA, and he said, "Yeah, they're great, but now, with the rifles we've handled (in reference to our rifles and most of the sub-$650 rifles we've handled), if I'm gonna buy it's going to be a Blaser or something." Blaser is the most expensive rifle my dad or I have handled; they're super pretty for sure, but why pay $5000 for something I will not utilize to it's best ability (Americans don't need fancy equipment to fit into large driven hunts or straight-pull bolt actions for them either, for example)

In response, I showed him this video. There are some things I disagree with, like the bit about the ammo; you can shoot whatever ammo out of whatever gun, but to have consistent accuracy, you need precision-loaded ammunition. I'm also left wondering about semi-custom rifles, those factory rifles that are bastardized by add-ons such as stocks, triggers, barrels, and other attachments.

Anyway, enjoy the video if you do and let me know your thoughts. At the end of the day, any rifle in the hands of the right shooter is a 1000yd rifle (practice practice practice!)

Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106021
03/09/18 02:41 PM
03/09/18 02:41 PM
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Most Browning Rifles are made by Miroku in Japan...


You did what?
Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106054
03/09/18 03:05 PM
03/09/18 03:05 PM
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All I know is that I have a Tikka T3X in 6.5 creed. So far I have tried only factory ammo including Hornady 143 ELDX, Hornady Black 140gr HPBT, Prime 130gr HPBT, Hornady Non Typical 140gr soft points, and Hornady Match 140gr ELDM. It shoots them all well under MOA.

I do want to try Chad's ammo too though.

Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106063
03/09/18 03:24 PM
03/09/18 03:24 PM
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redchevy Offline
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I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106085
03/09/18 03:42 PM
03/09/18 03:42 PM
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Frisco, Texas
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I tell ya'll looking for a great rifle for around a grand, look no further than the Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Long Range. If a crisp, 3.5# trigger is too heavy, Jard and Timney now offer "drop=in" triggers for it. Thing will shoot.

He77 my daughters X-Bolt Micro Midas 20", 7mm-08, shoots under an inch with Hornadys Custom "Lite" ammo.

Great little rifles...


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106091
03/09/18 03:47 PM
03/09/18 03:47 PM
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These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down!



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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: redchevy] #7106110
03/09/18 04:01 PM
03/09/18 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo.


Well, they don't.

You also don't have to put high octane fuel in a steet/race engine, but...



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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106125
03/09/18 04:13 PM
03/09/18 04:13 PM
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Blanco texas
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505ed Offline
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Blaser are excellent rifles. I own 3 frames and 2 bolt assemblies, with 4 different barrels. That is the beauty of the system--being able to break down hold zero and travel in a compact package..that being said I do own a few good customs also.

I will disagree with the last statement--not any rifle is a capable 1000 yard rifle...1000 yards is a long way...I have a Winchester 94 trapper that is exceptionally accurate with it's mounted peep site--but try putting that on steel consistently at 1000 yards.

Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: 505ed] #7106135
03/09/18 04:21 PM
03/09/18 04:21 PM
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chital_shikari Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: 505ed
I will disagree with the last statement--not any rifle is a capable 1000 yard rifle...1000 yards is a long way...I have a Winchester 94 trapper that is exceptionally accurate with it's mounted peep site--but try putting that on steel consistently at 1000 yards.
Well, let me define one thing and ask you to define another: by "any" I meant bolt-action sporters at MSRPs of around $500-$X. But in your rebuttal, which I concede is a valid one, I ask you: what is consistency for a M1894 Trapper and what does that translate to out to 1000yd?

Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: FiremanJG] #7106146
03/09/18 04:31 PM
03/09/18 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: redchevy
I never knew that all custom rifles had to use custom ammo.


Well, they don't.

You also don't have to put high octane fuel in a steet/race engine, but...


I guess I need a sarcasm imoji, the movie stated that custom rifles had to use custom ammo.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: ChadTRG42] #7106148
03/09/18 04:32 PM
03/09/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down!


Well, obviously you need to be stamping 2900 on your boxes! grin




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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106151
03/09/18 04:33 PM
03/09/18 04:33 PM
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Denton,Tx
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Drop Tine Online content
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Chad, you're over your pm limit. Clean some out and send me a message please.


Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106153
03/09/18 04:34 PM
03/09/18 04:34 PM
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^^ That's a great idea!!! I've always wondered, when does it count as false advertising? I mean as a shooter, being off 150+ fps on ammo would count as false advertising, IMO.



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Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: Jgraider] #7106181
03/09/18 05:06 PM
03/09/18 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
All I know is that I have a Tikka T3X in 6.5 creed. So far I have tried only factory ammo including Hornady 143 ELDX, Hornady Black 140gr HPBT, Prime 130gr HPBT, Hornady Non Typical 140gr soft points, and Hornady Match 140gr ELDM. It shoots them all well under MOA.

I do want to try Chad's ammo too though.
good point, I will be selling a Fierce 6.5 creedmoor, that will shoot with the best, I don't consider my self a good shot, be amazing to see someone like Jason shoot the Fierce.


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106204
03/09/18 05:31 PM
03/09/18 05:31 PM
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Agree on Hornady's factory stuff being slower. It is especially true in my son's CTR 260 Rem.
Mine averaged out as follows using a cheap Chrony:

Tikka T3X 24"bbl.
Box Actual
Hornady ELDX 2700 2657
Hornady Black 2690 2648
Prime 2851 2795

Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7106243
03/09/18 06:23 PM
03/09/18 06:23 PM
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Yep, if I didn't reload, Chad would be my ammo guy. Well worth the money for a real load work up, not like my grab the popular load and roll with it.


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: ChadTRG42] #7108871
03/12/18 04:43 PM
03/12/18 04:43 PM
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Fairfax, VA
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
These days, most "good" rifles can shoot under MOA. Even basic factory ammo will shoot decent. But the big thing to me is what's on the inside of the ammo. I see my ammo compared to lots of factory ammo. The big negative thing I see on factory ammo is that it's MUCH slower than what's on the box (especially the Hornady 6.5 CM ammo), and has a much higher extreme spread in velocity. Last Friday we tested the 140 BTHP and 143 ELD-X factory ammo. It was running 2540 and 2560 fps, with 2700 fps written on the box. I'm running 2750-2780 fps with the same bullets. That's 200 fps faster than factory ammo. It's watered down!


What barrel length are you using?

SAAMI Specs a 24" barrel for velocity and pressure testing. If you are using a 20" barrel and Hornady tested it in a 24" barrel that could explain the difference in listed velocities.

And yes most major manufacturers err on the side of caution and don't run at the maximum pressure specifications. Companies like Underwood, Buffalo Bore, and Double Tap have based their businesses on loading ammunition that just barely is under SAAMI max but gives better performance than the major ammo makers.


"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
-- Confucius
Re: "MOA: Custom rifles vs Production rifles" [Re: chital_shikari] #7109031
03/12/18 06:59 PM
03/12/18 06:59 PM
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When I see gun discussions, especially custom vs factory reduced to sub MOA accuracy I think about what this guy said the other day: "Roseanne Barr or Jennifer Lopez, both would give the same ending, who would you rather see and hold"
I hate comparing it to women and I really don't like personifying guns, but I'll make an exception this time.

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