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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Wytex]
#7096464
02/28/18 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554 |
We already have had state sections and landlocked public lands sold to private landowners, access is lost not gained. The state manages our wildlife so how would populations expand if land are sold to private? The reason our federal grazing leases are so cheap is that is that productive private lands in Wyoming are hard to come by. And we are Americans and public land advocates. So you're calling me un -American because I support public land issues ? I never said anything similar to that wytex. I believe that single issue groups put issues in front of others that may be better for the country as a whole. Like I said I'm for smart safe mining on some federal lands because energy independence is important to me. BHA is single issue group. No matter how good it is for the country they look at public land issue first. Like I said life is not black and white. Me I'm a Christian before I'm an American. Does that make me un American? I'd sure hope not. I wouldn't call anyone of the bha guys un American. I'm just stating where I believe their priorities are.
Last edited by ducknbass; 02/28/18 08:34 PM.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: SherpaPhil]
#7096505
02/28/18 09:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,428
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,428 |
Wytex look at the 1st and 2nd response from bobo. Yes the headline that Trump stole federal lands was a flat out lie. Wasn't it Patagonia that said that, not BHA? Both are guilty. I’m an ex BHA member, I was real close to becoming life member, and choose to wait. Thier email campaign is pretty bad, damn near malicious. So far I think TRCP is a much better organization, but I’m still watching, their partner ship with Patagonia is disturbing With that said there probably will never be an organization that appeases me 100%, in general I’m very anti Conservation Groups because they loose thier way and put $$$ in front of thier core supporters’ beliefs. You can’t put recreational at the forefront all the time especially with malicious intent toward commercial food supplies. I support public land 100% I think it’s a fundamental that makes Americans America. IMO -Transfer would destroy hunting, Think it would eliminate a sector that is view very favorably with the non hunting public. I also seen what the best stewards in World have done for wildlife and that’s our private landowners. Undeniable that with out Private Landownership many species like Tule elk, Pronghorns, wild turkeys etc wouldn’t be here.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: therancher]
#7096997
03/01/18 03:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074
Justin T
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,074 |
the constitution only grants them power to own land for bases, fed structures, and infrastructure.
I hear this repeated a lot, but with nothing to back it up. Exactly which part of the constitution states that? The constitution does not state that. I'm a librarian and have researched this topic for my students. Especially during "Bundy stand-off". The “Bundy stand-off” in Oregon at a federal wildlife refuge has triggered (or, rather, re-triggered) questions about the constitutionality of federal land ownership. Westerners in particular question why the federal government should own nearly 30% of the country. In the West, the issue is particularly important. The federal government has title to about half the territory of the eight Rocky Mountain states, the west coast states, and Alaska. The share of ownership in each of those states ranges from about 30% to about 88%. * Under the Property Clause (Art. IV, Sec. 3, Cl. 2), land titled to the federal government and held outside state boundaries is “Territory.” Federal land held within state boundaries is “other Property.” * If the host state agrees, the federal government can acquire an “enclave” within the state under the Enclave Clause (I-8-17). This grants governmental jurisdiction to the federal government, but the federal government has to acquire title separately. Washington, D.C. (the most important enclave), for example, is under federal jurisdiction, but much of the land is held by other parties, including individuals. * The Property Clause gives Congress unconditional power to dispose of property and authority to regulate what is already held. It does not mention a power to acquire. * Under the Treaty Clause (II-2-2; see also Article VI), the federal government may acquire land outside state boundaries. As long as the area is governed as a territory, the federal government may retain any land it deems best. * As for acreage (“other Property”) within state boundaries: Under the Necessary and Proper Clause, the federal government may acquire and retain land necessary for carrying out its enumerated powers. This includes parcels for military bases, post offices, buildings to house federal employees undertaking enumerated functions, and the like. It is not necessary to form federal enclaves for these purposes.
* But within state boundaries the Constitution grants no authority to retain acreage for unenumerated purposes, such as land for grazing, mineral development, agriculture, forests, or parks.* Once a state is created and is thereby no longer a territory, the federal government has a duty to dispose of tracts not used for enumerated purposes. * In the process of disposal, the federal government must follow the rules of public trust. It would be a breach of fiduciary duty for the feds to simply grant all of its surplus property to state governments. Each tract must be disposed of in accordance with the best interest of the American people. For example, natural wonders and environmentally sensitive areas (such as those now encompassed by the national parks) might be conveyed under strict conditions to state park authorities or (as in Britain) to perpetual environmental trusts. Land useful only for grazing, mining, or agriculture should be sold or homesteaded, with or without restrictions. The restrictions might include environmental protections, public easements, and protection for hunters and anglers. Most states were admitted to the union pursuant to treaties, agreements of cession, and/or laws passed by Congress. These are called organic laws. They include, but are not limited to, enabling acts and acts of admission. These laws cannot change the Constitution, but they have some interesting ramifications for federal land ownership. That is a topic for another posting. Thanks for posting. Exactly what I said in a lot fewer words. The constitution also establishes that congress can make laws, such as the antiquities act. Pretty much shoots down your constitution argument right there.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097004
03/01/18 03:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
^^^^^^ He’s right, you know.^^^^^^^
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097055
03/01/18 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795 |
I am too old to enjoy it much longer, but for those that want to dispose of it. Your children and grandchildren and their children will be the losers when it is gone. I made my first trip to Colorado for hunting when I was a young child, 60 something years ago, I still remember it.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097075
03/01/18 05:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234
gusick
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,234 |
I don't see any benefit to selling off federal lands. I don't want the West to turn into Texas. Texas bores the heck out of me. It's a pretty and ecologically diverse state, but you have to enjoy it all from the highway.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097112
03/01/18 09:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 216
machine73
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 216 |
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097246
03/01/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404
Choctaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Choctaw]
#7097321
03/01/18 02:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904
txtrophy85
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097337
03/01/18 02:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience Why anyone would countenance for a second the idea of selling America’s Crown Jewels is absolutely beyond me. I’m amazed we even have to discuss it, much less fight to keep it from happening.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7097398
03/01/18 03:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,785
Mr. T.
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,785 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience Why anyone would countenance for a second the idea of selling America’s Crown Jewels is absolutely beyond me. I’m amazed we even have to discuss it, much less fight to keep it from happening. X2
Cabin rental in Pagosa Springs, Co. Sleeps 10, If interested please PM me.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097403
03/01/18 03:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,791
Wytex
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 3,791 |
You all need to take a drive up north and see what you're talking about. Mineral extraction in Wyoming is going gangbusters, mining, oil and gas and trona. Yes , they still clearcut in the lower 48, we have thousands of acres scheduled for it in the next few years in the MBNF and in Colorado. Thankfully our state legislature has laws on the books just in case the feds "give" it back to the states, no selling of public lands that results in net loss of public lands. Let us manage it yes, but sell it, no way.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7097430
03/01/18 03:37 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904
txtrophy85
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience Why anyone would countenance for a second the idea of selling America’s Crown Jewels is absolutely beyond me. I’m amazed we even have to discuss it, much less fight to keep it from happening. I guess we are socialists Nog
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097435
03/01/18 03:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,610
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,610 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience The $48.00 hunting&fishing combo with the $48.00 public hunting permit, " Poormans food stamps" is cheap compared ta hunting leases. Wish they'd had a Life time WMA Permit. Just for thought.
i'm postaddic
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: 1860.colt]
#7097445
03/01/18 03:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904
txtrophy85
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,904 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience The $48.00 hunting&fishing combo with the $48.00 public hunting permit, " Poormans food stamps" is cheap compared ta hunting leases. Wish they'd had a Life time WMA Permit. Just for thought. I hunted public land for dove and small game back in college and had some good hunts. Wasn’t bad when that was the only option
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097464
03/01/18 04:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience Why anyone would countenance for a second the idea of selling America’s Crown Jewels is absolutely beyond me. I’m amazed we even have to discuss it, much less fight to keep it from happening. I guess we are socialists Nog Da, comrade.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7097502
03/01/18 04:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Anyone ever seen a check for their share of the sale of our public lands? Seen any checks for the almost 18,000 total grazing leases or from those 63,000 O&G wells or other types of leases on our Public Lands from the beginning till today?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097508
03/01/18 04:48 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,610
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,610 |
To know there are millions of acres I can use free of charge, without having to ask or pay some landowner, is priceless to me. It is a great experience The $48.00 hunting&fishing combo with the $48.00 public hunting permit, " Poormans food stamps" is cheap compared ta hunting leases. Wish they'd had a Life time WMA Permit. Just for thought. I hunted public land for dove and small game back in college and had some good hunts. Wasn’t bad when that was the only option Tips his hat.
i'm postaddic
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: stxranchman]
#7097523
03/01/18 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Anyone ever seen a check for their share of the sale of our public lands? Seen any checks for the almost 18,000 total grazing leases or from those 63,000 O&G wells or other types of leases on our Public Lands from the beginning till today? Nope. Oddly enough, the state of Alaska used to mail out checks to all of their residents for their share of state land oil leases (maybe federal land too IDK). A guy I knew in college used to get one every year. IDK if they still do that or not.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7097549
03/01/18 05:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Anyone ever seen a check for their share of the sale of our public lands? Seen any checks for the almost 18,000 total grazing leases or from those 63,000 O&G wells or other types of leases on our Public Lands from the beginning till today? Nope. Oddly enough, the state of Alaska used to mail out checks to all of their residents for their share of state land oil leases (maybe federal land too IDK). A guy I knew in college used to get one every year. IDK if they still do that or not. When I was in Alberta I was told by the landowners that they(landowners) do not own any of the minerals there. They only get a small check ($3000/well IIRC) per well for damages to their land. The landowners really got the shaft there and then had to pay a premium at the pumps like everyone else. Once they drilled a well and put in a road that road also was open to public traffic. You could road hunt those road allowances to any well. I guess there must have been a poacher on that board when that was put into law. I was told a landowner cannot lease his land for hunting either, he can only allow or deny you the right to hunt it.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: stxranchman]
#7097568
03/01/18 05:21 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Anyone ever seen a check for their share of the sale of our public lands? Seen any checks for the almost 18,000 total grazing leases or from those 63,000 O&G wells or other types of leases on our Public Lands from the beginning till today? Nope. Oddly enough, the state of Alaska used to mail out checks to all of their residents for their share of state land oil leases (maybe federal land too IDK). A guy I knew in college used to get one every year. IDK if they still do that or not. When I was in Alberta I was told by the landowners that they(landowners) do not own any of the minerals there. They only get a small check ($3000/well IIRC) per well for damages to their land. The landowners really got the shaft there and then had to pay a premium at the pumps like everyone else. Once they drilled a well and put in a road that road also was open to public traffic. You could road hunt those road allowances to any well. I guess there must have been a poacher on that board when that was put into law. I was told a landowner cannot lease his land for hunting either, he can only allow or deny you the right to hunt it. Wow. Canada has some strange laws that's for sure.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097589
03/01/18 05:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554 |
Only person that advocated selling of public lands was rancher. I think it's common knowledge that he won't be happy till all game is high fenced branded and titled.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7097606
03/01/18 05:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Wow. Canada has some strange laws that's for sure.
Lot of things they do and say up there are strange. When hunting in Alberta I asked for ice tea with a meal and they looked at me like I was an alien. I got a glass of room temperature tea and when they got the ice bucket out of the freezer, it had a thick layer of frosty snow covering ice cubes (that had never seen the light of day ever). When I asked for the sugar to make it sweet tea they thought I had lost my mind. If you asked for ketchup you got the same look. On the first morning were hunting we came up on a county road sign that stated "Texas Gate Ahead". I looked at my guide and said "We have driven a bit farther south than I thought this morning." He laughed as we drove across a cattle guard across the country road. We call them stock tanks or ponds here and they call them "dugouts". Guide told me his Dad was "breaking ice in the dugouts today" and I had to asked what he was talking about? I was also told if a local is caught poaching a deer, they are only find about $150 AND get to keep the deer. There are some really good people up there and the hunting can be really good. I enjoyed it a lot and had fun taking the ribbing from the locals. Just a bit cold for this Texan.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: Wytex]
#7097607
03/01/18 05:45 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,428
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,428 |
You all need to take a drive up north and see what you're talking about. Mineral extraction in Wyoming is going gangbusters, mining, oil and gas and trona. Yes , they still clearcut in the lower 48, we have thousands of acres scheduled for it in the next few years in the MBNF and in Colorado. Thankfully our state legislature has laws on the books just in case the feds "give" it back to the states, no selling of public lands that results in net loss of public lands. Let us manage it yes, but sell it, no way. I’ve been and fully support a regulated all 4. Those cuts are not true clear cuts as was 30plus years ago. Selective cutting and thinning. Anyone that’s against sensible timber harvest needs to hunt units with more burns and recent timber harvest then old growth dead forest like northern Idaho. Best thing for a big chunk of our public lands is selective timber harvest, not even debatable.
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Re: Tuesday discussion topic- the selling of public and state lands to private landowners
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7097613
03/01/18 05:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Yes it’s pretty much the height of silliness when they let marketable trees just die and then have to either clean them up when they block roads and the rest become wildfire fuel.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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