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Mar 25th, 2012
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What makes the Tak-14 legal #7089103
02/22/18 09:22 PM
02/22/18 09:22 PM
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I thought any shotgun barrel under 18" was illegal, how can the 14" barrel on the remington Tak 14 be legal?


Originally Posted by bill oxner
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out.
Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089116
02/22/18 09:28 PM
02/22/18 09:28 PM
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Overall length of 26 inches I thought.




Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089120
02/22/18 09:34 PM
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Short answer - It is not a shotgun. Never was a shotgun, therefore not restricted to the shotgun rules.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: JESmith] #7089123
02/22/18 09:35 PM
02/22/18 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: JESmith
Short answer - It is not a shotgun. Never was a shotgun, therefore not restricted to the shotgun rules.


Exactly.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089159
02/22/18 09:50 PM
02/22/18 09:50 PM
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Are we talking about the Remington 870 Tac 14 shotgun? If so, yes it's a shotgun, but classified as a pistol. The barrel is 14" long and has a "pistol" grip. The pistol grip with a shorter than rifle barrel makes it a pistol. So it's a pistol that is a shotgun.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: ChadTRG42] #7089162
02/22/18 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Are we talking about the Remington 870 Tac 14 shotgun? If so, yes it's a shotgun, but classified as a pistol. The barrel is 14" long and has a "pistol" grip. The pistol grip with a shorter than rifle barrel makes it a pistol. So it's a pistol that is a shotgun.

No. None of this.
It is a "firearm". Not a pistol. Not shotgun.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089170
02/22/18 09:55 PM
02/22/18 09:55 PM
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Would have to be in the same classification as the Judge, right?

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089177
02/22/18 09:58 PM
02/22/18 09:58 PM
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If you are an FFL, and a person buys this Tac 14 "firearm" and fills out the required FFL paperwork for transfer, there are 3 options- Handgun, long gun, Other (for frames and receivers). It is classified as a handgun because of the pistol grip and shorter than long gun barrel.

A long gun is classified as a shotgun or rifle. (Shotgun with a barrel of 18" or more, and a rifle barrel of 16" or more.) Therefore, it is classified as a handgun.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: Gumbeaux] #7089189
02/22/18 10:08 PM
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He didn't ask what box a FFL checks when one is purchased. He asked what made them legal. The ATF classifies the Tac-14 and Mossberg Shockwave as a "firearm" not a pistol, not a shotgun. As a "firearm", it doesn't fall under the same rules as a shotgun or pistol.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089197
02/22/18 10:11 PM
02/22/18 10:11 PM
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He asked what makes it legal. It is legal because it is a handgun.

It's the same exact concept of a pistol AR-15 with a short barrel less than 16" with no shoulder mount. It's a handgun.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089202
02/22/18 10:15 PM
02/22/18 10:15 PM
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ATF Rule- A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089209
02/22/18 10:19 PM
02/22/18 10:19 PM
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ATF letter to Mossberg on the 590 Shockwave.


Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089213
02/22/18 10:22 PM
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From Mossberg's website.


Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089215
02/22/18 10:23 PM
02/22/18 10:23 PM
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A handgun is a firearm right? Last time I checked it was.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089238
02/22/18 10:32 PM
02/22/18 10:32 PM
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He asked what made it legal. I provided the ATF letter and the explanation from one of the manufactures of this type of weapon. You are providing typical gun counter knowledge.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089288
02/22/18 11:01 PM
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Guess what. We are both 100% correct. The Tac 14 is a firearm and falls under firearm rules (not the NFA rules, which is a different category), which is 100% correct. That's the main category it's in, firearms. There are sub categories of firearms, and the sub category of this Tac 14 is a handgun (where a normal shotgun falls under the long gun category). It falls under the handgun rules, not the long gun rules.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089382
02/22/18 11:56 PM
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So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"?


Originally Posted by bill oxner
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out.
Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089394
02/23/18 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN
So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"?

Because it began life as a shotgun. The Tac-14 and Shockwave are only ever firearms. Loophole

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089445
02/23/18 12:39 AM
02/23/18 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: CCBIRDDOGMAN
So why can't you put a pistol grip on an 870 and cut the barrel to 14"?
like the flip said, you canít change the classification of a gun after itís been classified.


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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089476
02/23/18 12:59 AM
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Because the ATF knows more than you, and they said so.


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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7089697
02/23/18 04:07 AM
02/23/18 04:07 AM
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This just goes to show how stupid firearm laws are. Restrictions, of any kind, donít make a lick of sense.


Re: What makes the Tac-14 legal [Re: ChadTRG42] #7089997
02/23/18 02:55 PM
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Think of it "kinda sorta" like buying a stripped AR lower. When you buy it, it is not a pistol or a rifle - just a firearm. What you do with it MIGHT change its status. Put a pistol grip or pistol brace on it and pistol rules apply. Put a stock on it and long gun rules apply.

Not a perfect analogy but then I am only on my second cup of coffee.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: TexFlip] #7090066
02/23/18 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: TexFlip
He didn't ask what box a FFL checks when one is purchased. He asked what made them legal. The ATF classifies the Tac-14 and Mossberg Shockwave as a "firearm" not a pistol, not a shotgun. As a "firearm", it doesn't fall under the same rules as a shotgun or pistol.


I heard this same explanation on the Gun Talk podcast from the Mossberg rep. Not a shotgun based on length and grip. Not a pistol because it is smooth bore. It is a firearm as TexFlip has explained in multiple posts.

Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7090073
02/23/18 03:54 PM
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I'll be sure to check the non-existent "Firearm" box next time I transfer one.



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Re: What makes the Tak-14 legal [Re: CCBIRDDOGMAN] #7090097
02/23/18 04:14 PM
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For Educational purposes only:

In the USC, "firearm" is a separate and distinct classification, it is not a broad category that is further defined as handgun/rifle/shotgun. Instead all four of those items (Rifle/Handgun/Shotgun/Firearm) have a legal definition in the code.

In this case, you should be transferring them as "Other", exactly because they are not a handgun, rifle, nor shotgun as defined and manufactured.

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