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Mar 25th, 2012
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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7076666
02/13/18 03:05 PM
02/13/18 03:05 PM
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Did it ever occur to you BillT that this disaease has been in the deer population way before you were born on this earth? If we as humans were hunted what percentage of our population could appear to be healthy but have cancer? We are still here, more of us than there have ever been on this earth. There are more deer now than there were when the pilgrims landed. Should we quarantine all the folks in Texas that are diagnosed with cancer? Stop burying all those that die from it because it could spread into the soil?


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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7076800
02/13/18 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Did it ever occur to you BillT that this disaease has been in the deer population way before you were born on this earth? If we as humans were hunted what percentage of our population could appear to be healthy but have cancer? We are still here, more of us than there have ever been on this earth. There are more deer now than there were when the pilgrims landed. Should we quarantine all the folks in Texas that are diagnosed with cancer? Stop burying all those that die from it because it could spread into the soil?


Yes it did occur to me, but then I did some reading on the subject. CWD is most likely a mutated form of scrapie that probably came from housing deer in pens that had been used to study scrapie. Unlike cancer, which is not contagious, CWD is transmissible from one deer to another deer. We have a group of people ignoring the disease and a group of people freaking out, and theyíre ignoring each other instead of trying to get down to the facts.

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7076844
02/13/18 05:08 PM
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It has not been proven cancer is not contagious. There are numerous theories that it could be started by a bacteria or virus that attacks our cells. Most agree that the tumors aren't contagious, but know one knows for sure what starts the cell mutation that turns into tumors that kill or kills other cells.

You are assuming a lot of things to be factual when you post about CWD that are not facts at all, just assumptions. You know what happens when you assume, right?


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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7076913
02/13/18 05:53 PM
02/13/18 05:53 PM
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Iím not aware of it being a cancer virus that causes cancer, so much as it is individual reactions and mutations that result from more common infections. Of course there are lots of types of cancer, some with known causes, some with unknown causes. Benzene has been proven to cause kidney cancer. Not all kidney cancer comes from benzene exposure. Certain forms of papilloma virus do result in cancer at fairly high rates, and vaccines have been developed to prevent infection from those viruses. None the less, Iím not aware of any form of cancer which has been shown to directly spread from person to person. There are also various treatments for cancer and very few cancers have 100% mortality rates. So far with CWD we have identified the infectious agent and it can be tested for. CWD has been proven to be directly transmissible from deer to deer, which Iím not aware of in the case of cancer. CWD has been detected at rates of over 10% in some wild populations, but Iím not aware of any cities anywhere where 10% of people currently have cancer. BSE was essentially stopped in its tracks fairly quickly once it was taken seriously. Iím not saying we need to eliminate herds or stop hunting or quarantine states. Iím saying we need to keep studying the disease, take a few sensible precautions(like test your deer, and donít eat it if itís positive. CO will issue you a new tag if your deer tests positive, leave your carcass where you shot it if itís in a CWD containment area) and when we know more about it, then we can change our strategy based on that information. We may find that itís older than we thought and just wonít mutate and canít possibly infect anything but cervids and itís been everywhere for centuries and it just doesnít matter. Why would you assume that though? Iím not saying the sky is falling. Iím saying that cloud over there could be a storm cloud. You can keep fishing and check that cloud every hour or two, and if it gets bigger and closer you might want to fish within an hour of shore, or you can ignore the cloud and find yourself two hours off the coast when the weather gets rough. Thereís a cloud out there. Donít pack it in and find a new career, but donít go below deck and take a nap either. Keep your eyes on it and act accordingly. There will always be clouds, and thatís not a reason to panic, but it doesnít mean a storm will never come either

. I have some swollen lymph nodes that have been swollen for years. I also handle chemicals. I had a doctor take a look and he said there is definitely something there, but I donít have any other signs that I should be concerned about lymphoma. The recommendation was to have a blood panel and physical exam once a year and keep an eye on it. It will most likely never amount to anything, but it could, and it would be better to know early. I could skip the exam and blood panels and wait until I had obvious symptoms, but by then the it would be a bigger deal than if it was caught at an earlier stage. We already have the sign that something is there. Itís probably not time to treat for lymphoma, but it would be stupid not to get the annual exam and blood work.

Why are you so sure that itís been around forever and never mattered and therefore never will matter? Viruses mutate, bacteria mutate, crayfish mutate. Why canít a scrapie prion mutate?

Last edited by ImBillT; 02/13/18 05:57 PM.
Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7077421
02/13/18 11:43 PM
02/13/18 11:43 PM
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I'm not sure it's been around forever. My point I'm trying to make is we have bigger fish to fry. There are known diseases that kill off entire deer populations already mentioned in these threads. Nothing has been done to contain these higher risks to deer populations. (Blue Tongue, Anthrax) So ask yourself why not? Remember that people like flounder and his supporters want funding for their research. There are other forces at work that have used this disease for political purposes like shutting down deer breeders and high fence hunting operations without any proven facts to support the actions they have taken killing thousands of deer without any positive result to show for it. If flounder was able to do what he wants, he would kill every deer in all the areas CWD has been found. Also remove all the soil, farm and ranch equipment. Even the furniture.

If you don't believe me, ask him your self.

As for me assuming, I don't assume anything about the disease. I just use logic based on the facts I know to be true.

Deer have been found dead of natural causes for as long as they have been in existence. Logic tells me someone hunting them has eaten deer that were carrying a disease that eventually would be fatal to them but outward they appear quite normal. Logic tells me for this reason humans have very likely eaten deer infected with CWD. I could of been one of them. That's why I'm not concerned about contracting CWD from deer I eat. I will continue to use common sense, being that if I kill a deer that doesn't appear to be healthy I won't eat it. I've always managed wild game this way. Years before we were talking about CWD.


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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7078344
02/14/18 06:42 PM
02/14/18 06:42 PM
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Look at the incredible amount of $ and resources being spent on CWD. Compare it to the amount being spent on anthrax (a disease KNOWN to kill people and that can and does kill up to 90% of deer in a single outbreak).

The disparity in THAT number is all I need to know about the political feather lining sky is falling bullch#@ message of people like Flounder and billit.


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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7078355
02/14/18 06:57 PM
02/14/18 06:57 PM
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I say we start human testing for this....lets start with Bill and Terry, with the old method.

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: therancher] #7078401
02/14/18 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Look at the incredible amount of $ and resources being spent on CWD. Compare it to the amount being spent on anthrax (a disease KNOWN to kill people and that can and does kill up to 90% of deer in a single outbreak).

The disparity in THAT number is all I need to know about the political feather lining sky is falling bullch#@ message of people like Flounder and billit.




TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2018

MISSISSIPPI STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH Chronic Wasting Disease: Public Health Recommendations

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/mississippi-state-department-of-health.html


kind regards, terry

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7078565
02/14/18 09:38 PM
02/14/18 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: flounder
Originally Posted By: therancher
Look at the incredible amount of $ and resources being spent on CWD. Compare it to the amount being spent on anthrax (a disease KNOWN to kill people and that can and does kill up to 90% of deer in a single outbreak).

The disparity in THAT number is all I need to know about the political feather lining sky is falling bullch#@ message of people like Flounder and billit.




TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2018

MISSISSIPPI STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH Chronic Wasting Disease: Public Health Recommendations

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/mississippi-state-department-of-health.html


kind regards, terry


This has to be one of the most stupid recommendations I've ever seen! Logic has left the state of Mississippi.....or maybe it was never there to start with.


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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7078708
02/14/18 11:33 PM
02/14/18 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted By: flounder
Originally Posted By: therancher
Look at the incredible amount of $ and resources being spent on CWD. Compare it to the amount being spent on anthrax (a disease KNOWN to kill people and that can and does kill up to 90% of deer in a single outbreak).

The disparity in THAT number is all I need to know about the political feather lining sky is falling bullch#@ message of people like Flounder and billit.




TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2018

MISSISSIPPI STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH Chronic Wasting Disease: Public Health Recommendations

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/mississippi-state-department-of-health.html


kind regards, terry


This has to be one of the most stupid recommendations I've ever seen! Logic has left the state of Mississippi.....or maybe it was never there to start with.


As I said on the Wisconsin thread. The "how ignorant can I be" sweepstakes are just getting started. We will have soooo many entertainment ops in the future. I'm stocking up on cigars and scotch. He77 with popcorn.

Oh, and if you think tpwd is any smarter or immune to the ignorance.... in my best Ron White voice "You're WROOOOOONG"!!

Last edited by therancher; 02/14/18 11:34 PM.

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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7078902
02/15/18 01:47 AM
02/15/18 01:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
I'm not sure it's been around forever. My point I'm trying to make is we have bigger fish to fry. There are known diseases that kill off entire deer populations already mentioned in these threads. Nothing has been done to contain these higher risks to deer populations. (Blue Tongue, Anthrax) So ask yourself why not? Remember that people like flounder and his supporters want funding for their research. There are other forces at work that have used this disease for political purposes like shutting down deer breeders and high fence hunting operations without any proven facts to support the actions they have taken killing thousands of deer without any positive result to show for it. If flounder was able to do what he wants, he would kill every deer in all the areas CWD has been found. Also remove all the soil, farm and ranch equipment. Even the furniture.

If you don't believe me, ask him your self.

As for me assuming, I don't assume anything about the disease. I just use logic based on the facts I know to be true.

Deer have been found dead of natural causes for as long as they have been in existence. Logic tells me someone hunting them has eaten deer that were carrying a disease that eventually would be fatal to them but outward they appear quite normal. Logic tells me for this reason humans have very likely eaten deer infected with CWD. I could of been one of them. That's why I'm not concerned about contracting CWD from deer I eat. I will continue to use common sense, being that if I kill a deer that doesn't appear to be healthy I won't eat it. I've always managed wild game this way. Years before we were talking about CWD.


Iím not as extreme as Flounder on the issue. I have however read a lot of the links heís posted as well as a lot of the not so technical writings saying not to worry about CWD, and I have formed my opinion based on my findings. Like I said in an earlier post, you donít have to believe everything Flounder says about the impending zombie apocalypse or else believe that CWD is s meaningless waste of time, but those seem to be the two options most people in these threads give. My opinion, after reading info from both sides, is that you should at least pay attention to it. Personally, I wonít be eating any deer that I kill in or near a CWD zone until I receive a negative test result. The only deer I hunt near any of those areas involve packing the animal out, so I bone them out anyway. Why not pay a few bucks to have it tested for peace of mind?

For purpose of argument, if there were an outbreak of anthrax or blue tongue etc. would any of you be ok with a requirement that carcasses within a containment zone be left within the containment zone? The answer does not have to apply to CWD, just wondering if there is a disease that justifies any form of restrictions.

Last edited by ImBillT; 02/15/18 01:55 AM.
Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: ImBillT] #7079613
02/15/18 03:40 PM
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For purpose of argument, if there were an outbreak of anthrax or blue tongue etc. would any of you be ok with a requirement that carcasses within a containment zone be left within the containment zone? The answer does not have to apply to CWD, just wondering if there is a disease that justifies any form of restrictions.

In neither case is transmission of these diseases facilitated by "moving carcasses". The vector is not the carcass. So why would you restrict something that isn't going to have any effect??

Well, that's an easy question to answer. You do that in order to show your chicken little constituents/colleagues that you are "doing something".

Research for vaccines/treatments for anthrax/ehd would be supported. And should be a much higher priority than research on a disease that has virtually no effect on populations and NO effect on human health.

Think about it, anthrax will kill you in a heartbeat. It kills most mammals that are exposed to it. When an outbreak occurs it can kill almost every deer in the affected area. Although it's not deer season when it typically blooms, pigs and exotics are killed and consumed by the tens of thousand of tons during those outbreaks. And when was the last time you heard of someone dying of anthrax from handling a carcass or consuming the meat????

Anthrax is EASILY transmitted from deer to deer. CWD can only be transmitted to primates by incredibly sophisticated and complex methods. So, why the ridiculously disproportionate concern over CWD?

Last edited by therancher; 02/15/18 03:42 PM.

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Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: flounder] #7079987
02/15/18 07:46 PM
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Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: ImBillT] #7080268
02/15/18 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.



(xi.) There was concern about contamination during carcase splitting and, in particular, concern that splitting often caused the spinal cord to be severed which could result in small pieces of cord becoming lodged between vertebrae;[14]

(xii.) There was concern about mechanically recovered meat, particularly that recovered from the spinal column;[15]

(xiii.) There was concern that removal of the specified offals did not fully remove the nervous and lymphatic tissue from the animal leaving some of those tissues in food for human consumption;[16]

BSE Inquiry

DFA 15 Monitoring and Enforcement of the SBO Specified Bovine Offal Regulations

http://bseinquiry.blogspot.com/2017/08/dfa-15-monitoring-and-enforcement-of.html


kind regards, terry

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: ImBillT] #7080302
02/15/18 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: therancher] #7081036
02/16/18 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?


Iím fairly certain the statement you made here is incorrect. My understanding is that while the prions are concentrated in nervous and lymphatic tissues, there are some prions located in all tissues. You also have to realize that all muscles contain nerves, or we couldnít move. Also, processing can get spinal fluid and tissue on your meat, so eating muscle, which is supposed to have very few prions, could actually expose you to very high numbers of prions. The people who got BSE werenít eating brains, they were eating muscle that was probably contaminated during processing. Although it seems to be transmissible via certain methods with very few prions, oral transmission, as far as I know, does require more prions. If you/your processor donít split the deer in half during processing and avoid lymph nodes and such, you are probably reducing risk considerably. Iím also probably going to start getting all the meat off the carcass before I remove the head as well. Because I dress skin and quarter in the field already, and completely debone if Iím packed in, itís really no extra trouble for me to do it that way. I used to finish caping and get the neck meat back at the house, but Iíll just do that in the field now.

I donít know how they processed the meat for the study, and what I read on it did not specify the condition of the whitetail whose meat was used. Iím sure a dead or near dead wasting deer is going to have far more prions in its meat than a seemingly healthy deer thatís been infected for only a few months. Whatever the case, the disease is hoping around the country, so Iím just gonna make sure I handle my deer in a way that will reduce any possible exposure.

Last edited by ImBillT; 02/16/18 03:31 PM.
Texas Deer Breeders Continue fight against the stateís wildlife agency and its regulations trying to contain CWD TSE Prion #7081083
02/16/18 03:49 PM
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FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2018

Texas Deer Breeders Continue fight against the stateís wildlife agency and its regulations trying to contain CWD TSE Prion

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/texas-deer-breeders-continue-fight.html


kind regards, terry

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: therancher] #7081110
02/16/18 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?



wrong again...see;


Prion Infectivity in Fat of Deer with Chronic Wasting Disease▿

Brent Race#, Kimberly Meade-White#, Richard Race and Bruce Chesebro* + Author Affiliations

In mice, prion infectivity was recently detected in fat. Since ruminant fat is consumed by humans and fed to animals, we determined infectivity titers in fat from two CWD-infected deer. Deer fat devoid of muscle contained low levels of CWD infectivity and might be a risk factor for prion infection of other species.

http://jvi.asm.org/content/83/18/9608.full


Prions in Skeletal Muscles of Deer with Chronic Wasting Disease

Here bioassays in transgenic mice expressing cervid prion protein revealed the presence of infectious prions in skeletal muscles of CWD-infected deer, demonstrating that humans consuming or handling meat from CWD-infected deer are at risk to prion exposure.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/311/5764/1117.long


*** WDA 2016 NEW YORK ***

We found that CWD adapts to a new host more readily than BSE and that human PrP was unexpectedly prone to misfolding by CWD prions. In addition, we investigated the role of specific regions of the bovine, deer and human PrP protein in resistance to conversion by prions from another species. We have concluded that the human protein has a region that confers unusual susceptibility to conversion by CWD prions.

Wildlife Disease Risk Communication Research Contributes to Wildlife Trust Administration Exploring perceptions about chronic wasting disease risks among wildlife and agriculture professionals and stakeholders

http://www.wda2016.org/uploads/5/8/6/1/58613359/wda_2016_conference_proceedings_low_res.pdf



kind regards, terry

Re: Texas Deer Breeders Continue fight against the stateís wildlife agency and its regulations trying to contain CWD TSE Prion [Re: flounder] #7081182
02/16/18 05:08 PM
02/16/18 05:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
77518
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flounder Offline OP
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flounder  Offline OP
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77518
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2018

Wisconsin Stop private deer industry from trucking CWD across state

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/sto...tate/342532002/

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/wisconsin-stop-private-deer-industry.html


kind regards, terry

Re: Texas Deer Breeders Continue fight against the stateís wildlife agency and its regulations trying to contain CWD TSE Prion [Re: flounder] #7081189
02/16/18 05:16 PM
02/16/18 05:16 PM
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You need your own forum for this BS

Re: Texas Deer Breeders Continue fight against the stateís wildlife agency and its regulations trying to contain CWD TSE Prion [Re: maximus_flavius] #7081200
02/16/18 05:29 PM
02/16/18 05:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,115
McKinney, TX
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Shotgun Willie Offline
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Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
You need your own forum for this BS


Please. The ignore button doesn't cover new threads.

Wisconsin Deer from Now-Quarantined PA Lancaster County Farm Tests Positive for Chronic Wasting Disease CWD TSE Prion #7081244
02/16/18 06:09 PM
02/16/18 06:09 PM
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Posts: 277
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flounder Offline OP
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FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 2018

Wisconsin Deer from Now-Quarantined PA Lancaster County Farm Tests Positive for Chronic Wasting Disease CWD TSE Prion

http://chronic-wasting-disease.blogspot.com/2018/02/wisconsin-deer-from-now-quarantined-pa.html


kind regards, terry

Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: ImBillT] #7081423
02/16/18 08:07 PM
02/16/18 08:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,677
Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
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therancher Offline
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Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?


Iím fairly certain the statement you made here is incorrect. My understanding is that while the prions are concentrated in nervous and lymphatic tissues, there are some prions located in all tissues. You also have to realize that all muscles contain nerves, or we couldnít move. Also, processing can get spinal fluid and tissue on your meat, so eating muscle, which is supposed to have very few prions, could actually expose you to very high numbers of prions. The people who got BSE werenít eating brains, they were eating muscle that was probably contaminated during processing. Although it seems to be transmissible via certain methods with very few prions, oral transmission, as far as I know, does require more prions. If you/your processor donít split the deer in half during processing and avoid lymph nodes and such, you are probably reducing risk considerably. Iím also probably going to start getting all the meat off the carcass before I remove the head as well. Because I dress skin and quarter in the field already, and completely debone if Iím packed in, itís really no extra trouble for me to do it that way. I used to finish caping and get the neck meat back at the house, but Iíll just do that in the field now.

I donít know how they processed the meat for the study, and what I read on it did not specify the condition of the whitetail whose meat was used. Iím sure a dead or near dead wasting deer is going to have far more prions in its meat than a seemingly healthy deer thatís been infected for only a few months. Whatever the case, the disease is hoping around the country, so Iím just gonna make sure I handle my deer in a way that will reduce any possible exposure.


That study isnít peer reviewed or published.

Here:
http://www.myewa.org/blog/fake-chronic-wasting-disease-cwd/


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: therancher] #7081499
02/16/18 08:59 PM
02/16/18 08:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
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flounder Offline OP
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77518
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?


Iím fairly certain the statement you made here is incorrect. My understanding is that while the prions are concentrated in nervous and lymphatic tissues, there are some prions located in all tissues. You also have to realize that all muscles contain nerves, or we couldnít move. Also, processing can get spinal fluid and tissue on your meat, so eating muscle, which is supposed to have very few prions, could actually expose you to very high numbers of prions. The people who got BSE werenít eating brains, they were eating muscle that was probably contaminated during processing. Although it seems to be transmissible via certain methods with very few prions, oral transmission, as far as I know, does require more prions. If you/your processor donít split the deer in half during processing and avoid lymph nodes and such, you are probably reducing risk considerably. Iím also probably going to start getting all the meat off the carcass before I remove the head as well. Because I dress skin and quarter in the field already, and completely debone if Iím packed in, itís really no extra trouble for me to do it that way. I used to finish caping and get the neck meat back at the house, but Iíll just do that in the field now.

I donít know how they processed the meat for the study, and what I read on it did not specify the condition of the whitetail whose meat was used. Iím sure a dead or near dead wasting deer is going to have far more prions in its meat than a seemingly healthy deer thatís been infected for only a few months. Whatever the case, the disease is hoping around the country, so Iím just gonna make sure I handle my deer in a way that will reduce any possible exposure.


That study isnít peer reviewed or published.

Here:
http://www.myewa.org/blog/fake-chronic-wasting-disease-cwd/




https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/f6f5/99c913fc382f308b1df383633aca51e52065.pdf


but recent investigations have also demonstrated the presence of PrP d in skeletal muscles of TSE-infected laboratory mice and hamsters, of sheep, deer and humans ( Bosque et al., 2002 ; Bartz et al., 2003 ; Glatzel et al., 2003 ; Thomzig et al., 2003 ; Andréoletti et al., 2004 ; Mulcahy et al., 2004 ; Ashwath et al., 2005 ; Casalone et al., 2005 ; Angers et al., 2006 ; Thomzig et al., 2006 ). The levels of PrP d that accumulated in muscles were lower than those found in CNS or lymphoid tissue; however, in rodents, muscle-derived PrP d was shown to be infectious ( Bosque et al., 2002 ; Angers et al., 2006 ). The detection of PrP d (designated PrP Sc in scrapie) in skeletal muscles of scrapie-infected sheep ( Andréoletti et al., 2004 ) and of infectivity in skeletal muscle of CWD-infected mule deer ( Angers et al., 2006 ) has raised the level of concern on the issue of potential human health risks that might be encountered by consuming prion-containing meat.

http://jgv.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/jgv/10.1099/vir.0.81777-0#tab2


Our tissue blot findings in skeletal muscles from CWD-infected
WTD would be consistent with an anterograde spread of
CWD prions via motor nerve fibres to muscle tissue (figure 4A).
Similar neural spreading pathways of muscle infection were
previously found in hamsters orally challenged with scrapie [28]
and suggested by the detection of PrPTSE in muscle fibres and
muscle-associated nerve fascicles of clinically-ill non-human
primates challenged with BSE prions [29]. Whether the absence
of detectable PrPTSE in myofibers observed in our study is a
specific feature of CWD in WTD, or was due to a pre- or
subclinical stage of infection in the examined animals, remains to
be established. In any case, our observations support previous
findings suggesting the precautionary prevention of muscle tissue
from CWD-infected WTD in the human diet, and highlight the
need to comprehensively elucidate of whether CWD may be
transmissible to humans. While the understanding of TSEs in
cervids has made substantial progress during the past few years,
the assessment and management of risks possibly emanating from
prions in skeletal muscles of CWD-infected cervids requires further
research.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3069970/pdf/pone.0018345.pdf


kind regards, terry

Last edited by flounder; 02/16/18 09:10 PM. Reason: added another study with link
Re: Texas TPWD CWD positive Panhandle Roadkill Whitetail [Re: therancher] #7081544
02/16/18 09:31 PM
02/16/18 09:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,127
Mesopotamia
K
kdkane1971 Offline
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Jan 2014
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Mesopotamia
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: ImBillT
Well, would you be ok with a restriction that actually would reduce transmission?

The Canadian study on macaques included simply eating infected muscle tissue. Thatís not exactly an incredibly sophisticated and complex method. You probably canít get it from a eating meat from a preclinical infected deer. I donít know how much was proven on the transmission of BSE before they solved the problem buy just keeping BSE from developing in cattle before we eat them, but I would guess that human transmission was related to the fact that cattle are cut in half and spinal fluid and tissue end up getting on all your steaks. I wonít be cutting any more deer in half. Iíll have my venison steaks boneless from now on. With a disease with a very long incubation time, by the time you find out it has infected a human, it will have infected LOTS of humans. It could be decades before the first infected person finds out. Personally, if I shoot a deer in a known CWD area Iím going to have it tested before I eat it, and wonít eat one that tests positive. One deer that donít test positive or arenít tested, I will avoid lymph nodes and wonít split them in half.


So. You donít see anything to be concerned with about a ďstudyĒ that supposedly had monkeys getting infected from eating muscle tissue when we know the prions arenít located in muscle tissue?


Iím fairly certain the statement you made here is incorrect. My understanding is that while the prions are concentrated in nervous and lymphatic tissues, there are some prions located in all tissues. You also have to realize that all muscles contain nerves, or we couldnít move. Also, processing can get spinal fluid and tissue on your meat, so eating muscle, which is supposed to have very few prions, could actually expose you to very high numbers of prions. The people who got BSE werenít eating brains, they were eating muscle that was probably contaminated during processing. Although it seems to be transmissible via certain methods with very few prions, oral transmission, as far as I know, does require more prions. If you/your processor donít split the deer in half during processing and avoid lymph nodes and such, you are probably reducing risk considerably. Iím also probably going to start getting all the meat off the carcass before I remove the head as well. Because I dress skin and quarter in the field already, and completely debone if Iím packed in, itís really no extra trouble for me to do it that way. I used to finish caping and get the neck meat back at the house, but Iíll just do that in the field now.

I donít know how they processed the meat for the study, and what I read on it did not specify the condition of the whitetail whose meat was used. Iím sure a dead or near dead wasting deer is going to have far more prions in its meat than a seemingly healthy deer thatís been infected for only a few months. Whatever the case, the disease is hoping around the country, so Iím just gonna make sure I handle my deer in a way that will reduce any possible exposure.


That study isnít peer reviewed or published.

Here:
http://www.myewa.org/blog/fake-chronic-wasting-disease-cwd/



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