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Mar 25th, 2012
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Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? #7070871
02/08/18 06:34 PM
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It seems there is some odd infatuation going on with the 6MM and 6.5MM fans. Are these rounds really all that much better than rifles of .257 and .277 bore diameters? What practical advantages do .243 and .264 diameters really have over the slightly bigger guns. In the field none that I can see. Is making a good hit with a lighter recoiling cartridge deserving of more praise than making the same shot with a harder recoiling cartridge? Seems like it would be the other way around.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070887
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It's the cool thing for now.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070934
02/08/18 07:19 PM
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BC is the advantage and it has to do with consistency at long range. Not 400yds long range either

Itís also a great thing to be able to keep your eye in the scope after the recoil


Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070945
02/08/18 07:32 PM
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Yes a High BC does give a flatter trajectory and less wind drift but both are often not a lot. And 400 yards is a plenty long enough shot, if I were that far away I feel I could move a bit closer instead of taking a shot in wind I couldn't properly evaluate. Rangefinders are great but it is pretty hard to figure wind under field conditions. I took several big game animals out around 450 yards with various 270's and a 30-06, I knew the drop but the wind varied between myself and the Antelope enough that I made some not so great hits. In light wind this doesn't mean much but in Wyoming where a 30 mph wind is average it adds up.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: bphillips] #7070949
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Originally Posted By: bphillips
BC is the advantage and it has to do with consistency at long range. Not 400yds long range either

Itís also a great thing to be able to keep your eye in the scope after the recoil


This.


You did what?
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070955
02/08/18 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
Yes a High BC does give a flatter trajectory and less wind drift but both are often not a lot. And 400 yards is a plenty long enough shot, if I were that far away I feel I could move a bit closer instead of taking a shot in wind I couldn't properly evaluate. Rangefinders are great but it is pretty hard to figure wind under field conditions. I took several big game animals out around 450 yards with various 270's and a 30-06, I knew the drop but the wind varied between myself and the Antelope enough that I made some not so great hits. In light wind this doesn't mean much but in Wyoming where a 30 mph wind is average it adds up.


Wind is the problem thatís why BC matters and there are tools for getting more accurate readings on it. 600+ even a light wind matters even less than that with the calibers you mention. I love my 270 for a deer rifle but itís not made for reaching way out with consistentcy. That not to say you canít because you can shoot 1000yd with a 270 but there are better tools for the job

Last edited by bphillips; 02/08/18 07:46 PM.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070956
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For me itís recoil...I donít like it and still waiting for my Big Fitz edition recoil pad.


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070959
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So you're saying using a ballistically inferior bullet with more recoil deserves more praise?

Nothing cool about them. Still drive a Ford 7.3L?

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: Texasteach] #7070962
02/08/18 07:50 PM
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It takes a pretty heavy 6.5 Creedmoor for you not to lose sight of what you are shooting at for an instant. Lots of practice helps too. The point is that a good shot will not see any vast improvement in his shooting if he is shooting a bullet of .400 BC or .600 BC or the bullet weighs 120 grains or 180 grains and keeps ranges at a very reasonable under 450 yards and is able to tell himself when the wind is too great a variable to overcome. In fact a guy that can make every shot at 350 yards is not all that common. There are a lot more 500 yard rifles than there are 500 yard shooters.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: Judd] #7070985
02/08/18 08:03 PM
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Does recoil bother you when your hunting? Proper form when shooting from a bench makes recoil easier to tolerate. My recoil tolerance reaches into the 300 mag range, after that once the rifle is sighted in I only shoot it to check zero and hunt with it. I do like Limbsaver pads.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7070987
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I really have no intentions of taking a shot over 400-500 yards on game animals, not even on coyotes or gophers. Ok, maybe a coyote and a feral hog. grin
But practicing out to 600, 700 or more yards helps to make me a better 400-500 yard shooter.
I started with a 30 carbine at age 5, moved to a 222 then a 243 by age 7. 25-06 came along at age 13. First gun I purchased with my own money was a 'rescue' 270 that I had re-barreled to 25-06.With this rifle I took a whitetail at my longest measured/witnessed shot of 627 yards.
I've had magnums (7, 338 and 300 Win Mag) but my shoulder is starting to give me some grief so I down-sized to a 264 Win Mag. Plus, I don't care for the recoil anyway. The last rifle I built was on a model 70 action in 6.5x55. Not for BC or long range or anything like that. I had it built because it's what I wanted.
My 'big' bore is a 358 Win. smile


[IMG][/IMG]

Pay it forward - Kids are the future.

Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: Dien] #7070991
02/08/18 08:08 PM
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How is a bullet ballistically inferior if it does the job within reasonable hunting range? Inside of 400 yards the difference between Nosler Partition and an ABLR of the same weight will be hard to discern. That said A guy that can shoot well with guns that have more recoil deserves more credit than someone who can't.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: Bbear] #7070998
02/08/18 08:15 PM
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When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071009
02/08/18 08:24 PM
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On game if you can shoot it well, a 7 RM will kick the tar out of a 6.5 creedmore, close or far. The issue for a lot of shooters is recoil. For those that don't tolerate recoil well, the creedmore can be much easier to shoot well. On paper targets it holds up well. On game it is no way on equal footing. So it depends on what you actually do with a rifle as to how to judge it.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071014
02/08/18 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
...after that once the rifle is sighted in I only shoot it to check zero and hunt with it...


That is the reason that you don't understand the attraction of the lower recoiling rifles that can still reach out because of good BC. I love to shoot my hot loads in my Marlin 45/70, and I can handle the recoil just fine. However, It starts to hurt and I will start to flinch if I sit down and shoot 40 rounds at the bench. It becomes no fun at that point. However, I can sit down with my 6.5 creedmoor and shoot all day long very comfortably. When I go out shooting, I like to shoot for a while, not just check the scope and then hunt with it.


Originally Posted By: txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071025
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For shooting deer at 75 yards, it doesn't make a hill of beans worth of difference. Where the 6, 6.5, and 7 shine are at longer ranges, either hunting animals or punching paper targets. The high-BC bullets fight the wind better and the low recoil allows you to see misses and correct for them better.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071032
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If a company came out with an ultra-reliable pickup that matched the hauling capacity of a diesel f250 identically for the same up-front price, but drove like a corvette, cost less to operate, and got 50 miles to the gallon, which would you buy?

I could shoot a .270, but my creedmoor has less wind deflection and drop, and transfers similar energy for 20% less powder and 30% less recoil. What's the advantage of shooting the round that performs worse, and is harder to shoot? I'm not squeamish about recoil, but if I'm going to put up with it, I want it to buy me something.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071033
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.


How did you compensate for drop and windage at 1000 yards with a 270? What ammo did you shoot? I'm not to full blown liar calling stage but close. If you know enough to routinely shoot 1000 yards you know the benefits of good bc.

Last edited by redchevy; 02/08/18 08:50 PM.

It's hell eatin em live
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: redchevy] #7071041
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rickt300
When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.


How did you compensate for drop and windage at 1000 yards with a 270? What ammo did you shoot? I'm not to full blown liar calling stage but close. If you know enough to routinely shoot 1000 yards you know the benefits of good bc.


popcorn


Originally Posted By: txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: bphillips] #7071045
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Originally Posted By: bphillips
Wind is the problem that's why BC matters and there are tools for getting more accurate readings on it. 600+ even a light wind matters even less than that with the calibers you mention. I love my 270 for a deer rifle but it’s not made for reaching way out with consistentcy. That not to say you can’t because you can shoot 1000yd with a 270 but there are better tools for the job

The .277 cal 145gr ELDX has a G1 BC of .536 so I think it'll do just fine at distance consistently, but the 6, 6.5, & 7mm ELDX's have better BC's


Originally Posted By: BMD
No doubt about the AR crap, just damn shame hunters don't have self control and knowledge


Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: redchevy] #7071047
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rickt300
When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.


How did you compensate for drop and windage at 1000 yards with a 270? What ammo did you shoot? I'm not to full blown liar calling stage but close. If you know enough to routinely shoot 1000 yards you know the benefits of good bc.


Ummm, the same way you do for any other bullet... you just dial in more dope. That .277 bullet is going to travel 1000 yards. You just need to align point of aim with point of impact...

Before you whine, yes B.C. would be far greater with other calibers. Yes, wind and dope adjustment would be vastly different. But it could be done? Yep.


You did what?
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: ETXFIREMAN 1] #7071048
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Originally Posted By: ETXFIREMAN 1
Originally Posted By: bphillips
[
Wind is the problem that’s why BC matters and there are tools for getting more accurate readings on it. 600+ even a light wind matters even less than that with the calibers you mention. I love my 270 for a deer rifle but it’s not made for reaching way out with consistentcy. That not to say you can’t because you can shoot 1000yd with a 270 but there are better tools for the job

The .277 cal 145gr ELDX has a G1 BC of .536 so I think it'll do just fine at distance consistently, but the 6, 6.5, & 7mm ELDX's have better BC's











Yea and the berger 170 has a BC of .662 granted it wouldnt be moving with much oomph. That 145 is really new also but yea I know those would do it. Still better tools for the job

I would have built a 270wsm instead of a 6.5saum if the 170s would have been good from a short action.

Last edited by bphillips; 02/08/18 09:01 PM.

Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: Texasteach] #7071052
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Originally Posted By: Texasteach
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rickt300
When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.


How did you compensate for drop and windage at 1000 yards with a 270? What ammo did you shoot? I'm not to full blown liar calling stage but close. If you know enough to routinely shoot 1000 yards you know the benefits of good bc.


Ummm, the same way you do for any other bullet... you just dial in more dope. That .277 bullet is going to travel 1000 yards. You just need to align point of aim with point of impact...

Before you whine, yes B.C. would be far greater with other calibers. Yes, wind and dope adjustment would be vastly different. But it could be done? Yep.


No whining boy you are a piece of work. Yes the whole argument is why one is better. Ill just let the others play with you I don't care to.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: redchevy] #7071053
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: Texasteach
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: rickt300
When I lived in Wyoming we often had Turkey shoots that we shot out to 1000 yards and yes certain guns did better than others but generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet. We shot our hunting rifles and the three rounds that stood out were the 270, 30-06 and 7MM Remington magnums. If I had to pick a non match bullet it would be the Sierra Gameking in the heaviest weight for caliber I could get. However this was target shooting, not hunting. And up to 600 yards we shot offhand.


How did you compensate for drop and windage at 1000 yards with a 270? What ammo did you shoot? I'm not to full blown liar calling stage but close. If you know enough to routinely shoot 1000 yards you know the benefits of good bc.


Ummm, the same way you do for any other bullet... you just dial in more dope. That .277 bullet is going to travel 1000 yards. You just need to align point of aim with point of impact...

Before you whine, yes B.C. would be far greater with other calibers. Yes, wind and dope adjustment would be vastly different. But it could be done? Yep.


No whining boy you are a piece of work. Yes the whole argument is why one is better. Ill just let the others play with you I don't care to.


Come on redchevy, don't get your feelings hurt. Everyone likes reading your posts. It is like watching the short fat kid try and play basketball. We are all rooting for you...


You did what?
Re: Why is it that good shooting with a little gun is better than good shooting with a big gun? [Re: rickt300] #7071054
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
generally it was the shooter that made the difference more than if he was shooting a super high BC bullet

I think shooter ability is often overlooked. I know I'm not winning any competitions. If I can take advantage of a better BC, I'm gonna do that. I need all the help I can get.

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