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Mar 25th, 2012
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FFP vs. SFP #7066241
02/05/18 04:33 AM
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hornetfan63 Offline OP
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I know that there are benefits to FFP I just don't know what they are. Could someone explain the benefits and tell me if a FFP is needed for a hunting rifle? Thank you for your input.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066262
02/05/18 04:49 AM
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Only needed if you intend to use your mildot reticle for holdovers.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066273
02/05/18 05:05 AM
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Sfp reticle is constant size but only 1:1 at a certain magnification. Usually max


Ffp reticle is variable size but always 1:1. So you can do a hold over at any magnification

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066280
02/05/18 05:12 AM
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With a FFP scope, the reticle moves in and out as you change your magnification. It keeps your reticle the same at any magnification. In tactical terms, it subtends the same at any magnification. So the spacing inside your reticle does not change. The 1.0 mil line is ALWAYS 1.0 mils at any magnification.

With a second focal plane SFP, the reticle appears to stays the same size as you change your magnification. But, how much the reticle subtends changes with magnification.

For example, take my favorite scope, a Nightforce NXS 5.5-22 with MLR reticle (see link below). This is a SFP reticle, and the reticle is "set" at 22x, which is max magnification. The first short hash mark is .5 mil and the next full mark is 1.0 mil at 22x. Now, if I dial down to 11x, it's half power magnification. Since my image just got twice as far away, the reticle now subtends twice the value. So at 11x my first hash is now 1.0 mil, and the second full hash is 2.0 mils. And it's 4 times on 5.5x power.

So, is a FFP scope needed to hunt, No, not at all. But it can be helpful if you learn how to use your reticle. The FFP vs. SFP is always a big debate like a Ford vs. Chevy. I prefer the SFP scopes, since I have a finer cross hair to aim with on my tactical scopes. But I do have several FFP scopes on my hunting rifles, and it makes zeroing and using the reticle to hold for elevation at any magnification.


http://www.nightforceoptics.com/pdf/MLRSheet.pdf



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066316
02/05/18 07:18 AM
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The reticle on a SFP scope only works on max magnification. Like ChadTRG said above, you can use half magnification and double the value of the hash marks. You have to pay close attention to the magnification setting with a SFP scope. With a FFP scope, you don't, you just turn the magnification up until you can see the target.

I wouldn't use a SFP scope with a max magnification of 20x or 25x for hunting because you loose too much field of view when you crank the magnification up that high. I prefer FFP on higher magnification scopes. If the scope has a max magnification of 10x, SFP is fine because you will probably have it on max magnification for any long shot anyway.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066384
02/05/18 01:14 PM
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FFP is all I use.

Mirage gets bad, I can turn magnification down. Light gets low, I can turn magnification down. I move with it turned down as low as it will go. When I see an animal, I'll turn it up as high as I need, make a hold, shoot. Killed lots of hogs and coyotes this way, with no dialing. I don't want to stop and look to make sure I am at half power, and then convert the holds I already know. Hog, 200 yards, .5 Mil, shoot.

It is easier for me to teach a new shooter with a FFP scope, because there is one less variable to worry about.



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Tff caribou] #7066400
02/05/18 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Only needed if you intend to use your mildot reticle for holdovers.


Beg to differ.

There are many uses for a reticle, aside from holdovers. Advanced techniques include ranging, and holding for wind/dialing for elevation. More importantly, you don't even have to be a long range shooter to benefit from a good reticle. You can zero your rifle with exactly 2 shots if you understand how to use your reticle like a ruler.

SFP v FFP differences have already been outlined by the experts above. I use FFP for everything. Like I mentioned, I use my reticle like a ruler, and I like knowing the values are constant no matter what magnification I am on. Is it needed on a "hunting rifle?" Kinda depends on what your style of hunting is. Perhaps you could describe what that looks like in order to get some more focused feedback.

Last edited by Crews; 02/05/18 01:34 PM.
Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Crews] #7066539
02/05/18 03:20 PM
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^^Agreed



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7066656
02/05/18 04:27 PM
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The more static your environment the less ffp offers benefits.


In dynamic environment ffp takes one more variable out of the equation which is good

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Cleric] #7066660
02/05/18 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
The more static your environment the less ffp offers benefits.


In dynamic environment ffp takes one more variable out of the equation which is good


Good call.

The way it is for me, on a weekly basis, I may see a coyote or hog anywhere from 10 yards to 1000 yards. FFP works best for me, because of that.



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Crews] #7066727
02/05/18 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Crews
Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Only needed if you intend to use your mildot reticle for holdovers.


Beg to differ.

There are many uses for a reticle, aside from holdovers. Advanced techniques include ranging, and holding for wind/dialing for elevation. More importantly, you don't even have to be a long range shooter to benefit from a good reticle. You can zero your rifle with exactly 2 shots if you understand how to use your reticle like a ruler.

SFP v FFP differences have already been outlined by the experts above. I use FFP for everything. Like I mentioned, I use my reticle like a ruler, and I like knowing the values are constant no matter what magnification I am on. Is it needed on a "hunting rifle?" Kinda depends on what your style of hunting is. Perhaps you could describe what that looks like in order to get some more focused feedback.



I agree as well, but you can zero your rifle with 2 shots with any reticle, ffp, or sfp.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Jgraider] #7066769
02/05/18 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider

I agree as well, but you can zero your rifle with 2 shots with any reticle, ffp, or sfp.


Indeed, but with a FFP you don't have to remember to do so at max magnification. haha.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Crews] #7066771
02/05/18 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Crews
Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Only needed if you intend to use your mildot reticle for holdovers.


Beg to differ.

There are many uses for a reticle, aside from holdovers. Advanced techniques include ranging, and holding for wind/dialing for elevation. More importantly, you don't even have to be a long range shooter to benefit from a good reticle. You can zero your rifle with exactly 2 shots if you understand how to use your reticle like a ruler.

SFP v FFP differences have already been outlined by the experts above. I use FFP for everything. Like I mentioned, I use my reticle like a ruler, and I like knowing the values are constant no matter what magnification I am on. Is it needed on a "hunting rifle?" Kinda depends on what your style of hunting is. Perhaps you could describe what that looks like in order to get some more focused feedback.


I was assuming he was like 98% of Texas hunters and he sits in a blind looking at a deer feeder 200 or less yards away. If thatís the case, he doesnít need it.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Crews] #7066855
02/05/18 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: Crews
Originally Posted By: Jgraider

I agree as well, but you can zero your rifle with 2 shots with any reticle, ffp, or sfp.


Indeed, but with a FFP you don't have to remember to do so at max magnification. haha.


What does max magnification have to do with: After boresighting, and with a very steady rest, send one down range. Then place the reticle on the bullseye again, and dial it to where crosshairs intersect the previous shot. Bullseye, in 2 shots.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Jgraider] #7066914
02/05/18 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: Crews
Originally Posted By: Jgraider

I agree as well, but you can zero your rifle with 2 shots with any reticle, ffp, or sfp.


Indeed, but with a FFP you don't have to remember to do so at max magnification. haha.


What does max magnification have to do with: After boresighting, and with a very steady rest, send one down range. Then place the reticle on the bullseye again, and dial it to where crosshairs intersect the previous shot. Bullseye, in 2 shots.


In that scenario, the rifle and scope have to be locked down, and immovable. If that's the case, the way you're talking about works.

The guy that does not have the rifle immovable, uses the reticle as a ruler to measure wind and elevation of the miss, in Mil or MOA. Fire one from a bore sight, place the center of the reticle at the original aiming point, measure wind and elevation error from POA to POI, dial the appropriate corrections. In the case of the SFP scope, the reticle is usually only "true" at maximum magnification.



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067241
02/06/18 12:06 AM
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Which is why I specified "steady rest". Been doing it that way for 30 years.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067250
02/06/18 12:22 AM
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Here is a great link WITH GREAT PHOTOS to explain the differences and cost-benefit to each. Also deals with the MOA/MIL discussion and different optics mounts.

https://www.primalrights.com/library/articles/tag/optics

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Jgraider] #7067297
02/06/18 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Which is why I specified "steady rest". Been doing it that way for 30 years.


I'm very steady on a bipod, and rear bag, but I've still got to manipulate the rifle, and I can. "Steady" is not the appropriate term "immovable" is.



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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067341
02/06/18 01:37 AM
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Yeah, OK.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: FiremanJG] #7067351
02/06/18 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Which is why I specified "steady rest". Been doing it that way for 30 years.


I'm very steady on a bipod, and rear bag, but I've still got to manipulate the rifle, and I can. "Steady" is not the appropriate term "immovable" is.


Remind you of anyone? grin

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Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067558
02/06/18 03:59 AM
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Thank you for all of the replies. I am like most Texas hunters in that I sit in a stand over a feeder. My feeder location is about 100 yards away from the stand but that is not the only shot I want to take. I feel comfortable taking a 200 yard shot out the front of the stand but due to my duplex reticle I do not feel comfortable past that. As I am looking for a new reticle I am also looking for the best hold over/dial to ranges up to 500 yards. It seems FFP is the way to go if you are doing hold overs but what if you are dialing to different yardages?

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067566
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If you can shoot between 0-500 yards I would go ffp. That way if you are have to change distances rapidly you can use the reticle and it was always be right. I would do a simple mil reticle in ffp

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: hornetfan63] #7067631
02/06/18 10:21 AM
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If you want to shoot 500 yards, I'd strongly consider FFP. It's not that it can't be done with SFP - it's just that FFP eliminates unnecessary variables.

Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: patriot07] #7068848
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
If you want to shoot 500 yards, I'd strongly consider FFP. It's not that it can't be done with SFP - it's just that FFP eliminates unnecessary variables.


Originally Posted By: Cleric
If you can shoot between 0-500 yards I would go ffp. That way if you are have to change distances rapidly you can use the reticle and it was always be right. I would do a simple mil reticle in ffp


Good advice about eliminating one variable.


Scott
Re: FFP vs. SFP [Re: Cleric] #7068857
02/07/18 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
If you can shoot between 0-500 yards I would go ffp. That way if you are have to change distances rapidly you can use the reticle and it was always be right. I would do a simple mil reticle in ffp


This is the direction that I am leaning.

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