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Mar 25th, 2012
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Short-barreled 308 #7059075
01/30/18 11:01 PM
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Fixin to rebarrel my slow-twist .22-250 and want something short and light. It's going in a Game Scout stock with a T3 action, and a 9" can.

my plan has been to give it a 16.5" Hardy CF barrel, and let the can live on there. For you adventurous types, what powder/bullet combos should I look at to get a decent burn in that barrel length?

Mainly want it to whack pigs, so I don't really want to shoot light bullets.

Last edited by snarkscarbine; 01/30/18 11:01 PM.
Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7059134
01/30/18 11:41 PM
01/30/18 11:41 PM
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What are you considering a light bullet? We have been running 125 grain SST in a 20" 308 AR-10 at 3022 fps, and it HAMMERS pigs and yotes.

Out of a 16.5" barrel, you'll want to pick up some speed to gain expansion with a lighter bullet, like a 150 grain or lighter. A 165-168 would work, just running a little slower.



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7059246
01/31/18 01:08 AM
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You've done a lot more experimenting than I have, and 308 is a new caliber to me. Basically I just want something that'll transfer a good amount of energy and give me as much of a complete burn as I can get.

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7059347
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I think a 16.5" barrel will give you a petty good burn. I would look powders in the H335, A2230, TAC, H4895 burn rate. You should be able to get 2600-2700 with 150 grain bullets. I've had great experience the last 2 years with 150 Ballistic Tips. I'm sure any 150 bullet would work well but a 150 plastic tipped bullet like a NBT, SST, Accubond will give you more reliable expansion at extended ranges. I wouldn't be concerned about blow ups at close range from a shorter barreled 308 with any 150 hunting bullet.

Last edited by scottfromdallas; 01/31/18 02:07 AM.

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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: ChadTRG42] #7060176
01/31/18 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
What are you considering a light bullet? We have been running 125 grain SST in a 20" 308 AR-10 at 3022 fps, and it HAMMERS pigs and yotes


I've seen u say often as the "bullet guy" here (my personal designation for u) that u should "pick a bullet and then build a rifle."

1. What barrel do u have on this? Twist and brand would be nice to know.
2. What was the rationale here?

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7060181
01/31/18 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: snarkscarbine
You've done a lot more experimenting than I have, and 308 is a new caliber to me. Basically I just want something that'll transfer a good amount of energy and give me as much of a complete burn as I can get.


Sierra 155 gr TMK, IMR-8208

Works great in my 16" plus can. It has killed hogs from 20 yards to 480 yards, to date.



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: Korean Redneck] #7060200
01/31/18 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Korean Redneck
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
What are you considering a light bullet? We have been running 125 grain SST in a 20" 308 AR-10 at 3022 fps, and it HAMMERS pigs and yotes


I've seen u say often as the "bullet guy" here (my personal designation for u) that u should "pick a bullet and then build a rifle."

1. What barrel do u have on this? Twist and brand would be nice to know.
2. What was the rationale here?


The AR-10 is actually a good hunting buddy's of mine that I hunt and shoot with. We wanted something to night hunt pigs and yotes with a fast round with some good weight. I helped him out with loads and building the right load for it. I'm not sure of the barrel brand, but he put it together. I'm pretty sure it's a 1:10" twist. The rationale was to have, what we call, "Thermal Explosions"!! We wanted rabbits and yotes to have big splashes of thermal carnage on video when hit with a fast round. And it doesn't disappoint!



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: ChadTRG42] #7060596
01/31/18 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
What are you considering a light bullet? We have been running 125 grain SST in a 20" 308 AR-10 at 3022 fps, and it HAMMERS pigs and yotes.

Out of a 16.5" barrel, you'll want to pick up some speed to gain expansion with a lighter bullet, like a 150 grain or lighter. A 165-168 would work, just running a little slower.


The only bullet over 160that looks interesting to me is the 168 ablr. That bc doesnít look right...

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7060728
01/31/18 10:49 PM
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^^^ Yes, the BC's that Nosler lists on their site are not reliable at all. They have changed (lowered) their BC's several times since the LRAB have come out, and I don't even use their listed BC's for being to high. You can EASILY manipulate a G1 BC to make it very appealing, by how they calculate their BC's. But the real world Nosler BC data is much lower.

https://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/

For example, take the Sierra G1 BC numbers. Look at this standard 175 Sierra MatchKing. They list the G1 BC with the velocity test results they got at that velocity. It shows how the faster you push a bullet, the higher the G1 BC is. Now, Sierra's numbers are a little high also, compared to actual acoustic and field testing with the Litz numbers with the same bullet. But Nosler bases their BC data at stupid high speeds, where real world cartridges do not shoot that fast. Nosler lists these crazy high BC numbers, and probably with a little extra on top. This is why I recommend using a G7 BC. A G7 BC is a BC that is less dependent on velocity. Meaning, the faster or slower you push it, the less variation the actual BC has. Yes, there is some variation due to speed, but not near as much as a G1 is. So, use a G7 BC when running your trajectory data. And not all listed BC's are equal.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2275/308-dia-175-gr-HPBT

.505 @ 2800 fps and above
.496 between 2800 and 1800 fps
.485 @ 1800 fps and below



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: ChadTRG42] #7060846
02/01/18 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
^^^ Yes, the BC's that Nosler lists on their site are not reliable at all. They have changed (lowered) their BC's several times since the LRAB have come out, and I don't even use their listed BC's for being to high. You can EASILY manipulate a G1 BC to make it very appealing, by how they calculate their BC's. But the real world Nosler BC data is much lower.

https://www.nosler.com/accubond-long-range-bullet/

For example, take the Sierra G1 BC numbers. Look at this standard 175 Sierra MatchKing. They list the G1 BC with the velocity test results they got at that velocity. It shows how the faster you push a bullet, the higher the G1 BC is. Now, Sierra's numbers are a little high also, compared to actual acoustic and field testing with the Litz numbers with the same bullet. But Nosler bases their BC data at stupid high speeds, where real world cartridges do not shoot that fast. Nosler lists these crazy high BC numbers, and probably with a little extra on top. This is why I recommend using a G7 BC. A G7 BC is a BC that is less dependent on velocity. Meaning, the faster or slower you push it, the less variation the actual BC has. Yes, there is some variation due to speed, but not near as much as a G1 is. So, use a G7 BC when running your trajectory data. And not all listed BC's are equal.

https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/2275/308-dia-175-gr-HPBT

.505 @ 2800 fps and above
.496 between 2800 and 1800 fps
.485 @ 1800 fps and below


Color me shocked that a company would manipulate numbers to show better performance

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: FiremanJG] #7084836
02/19/18 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: snarkscarbine
You've done a lot more experimenting than I have, and 308 is a new caliber to me. Basically I just want something that'll transfer a good amount of energy and give me as much of a complete burn as I can get.


Sierra 155 gr TMK, IMR-8208

Works great in my 16" plus can. It has killed hogs from 20 yards to 480 yards, to date.


Sweet. This is what I'm wanting to do with a .308 barreled action I just bought. Was looking at 155s and a short barrel.


Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7084896
02/19/18 07:18 PM
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I am going to see how hard I can push the 168s.

I also like ablr because their min velocity for expansion is good

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: Cleric] #7085296
02/20/18 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Cleric
I am going to see how hard I can push the 168s.

I also like ablr because their min velocity for expansion is good


You already have a short barreled .308? Just talked to DSS and about to make mine happen.


Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7085360
02/20/18 01:51 AM
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Is Dss Morgan?


Mine is coming factory at 16in

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7085907
02/20/18 03:39 PM
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Yes sir it is. Hes going to chop, crown, and thread it cool rifle


Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7094695
02/27/18 04:25 PM
02/27/18 04:25 PM
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If your main target is pigs your not going to be shooting long range most of the time anyway. In fact I have never shot at a feral hog farther than 250 yards out. I don't see BC being a make it or break it issue. A blunt bullet going 2400 fps will work very well. Say a 170 gr. Hornady or 150 gr. Speer bullet made for the 30-30. It is odd the the Ballistic coefficient of a particular bullet has become such a hot topic when virtually 80% of our shooting will be under 150 yards. If you know you are going to be hunting in an area of wide open spaces a short barreled 308 might not be your best choice anyway.

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7094737
02/27/18 05:00 PM
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I love 16" 308s and have killed pigs and deer with them
Frankly inside of 300 yards I don't think it really matters which hunting bullet you use, 150-178s have all worked very well for me.

I will most likely be shooting 178ELDX out of my latest 16" bolt 308, they have worked perfect out of my 18" AR10, I don't 2" less barrel is going to change that.


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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: ccoker] #7094748
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Originally Posted By: ccoker
I love 16" 308s and have killed pigs and deer with them
Frankly inside of 300 yards I don't think it really matters which hunting bullet you use, 150-178s have all worked very well for me.

I will most likely be shooting 178ELDX out of my latest 16" bolt 308, they have worked perfect out of my 18" AR10, I don't 2" less barrel is going to change that.


Inside 300 yards I agree. But if you want to stretch itís legs you need to balance bc and velocity

Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7094749
02/27/18 05:18 PM
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oh sure..

I really liked the 178 AMAX, they worked for everything including long range and why I also like the ELDX. My 308s run a scope I can dial, so max "flatnes" of a round doesn't really concern me too much and I like one bullet for everything.

If shooting inside of say 300 and you don't plan to dial, get them as fast as you can.
At a distance I will take the heavy bullets due to less wind deflection.

A buddy runs the 130TTSX and loads em hot out of a longer barrel and no can for hunting.

Last edited by ccoker; 02/27/18 05:20 PM.

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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: rickt300] #7094885
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
If your main target is pigs your not going to be shooting long range most of the time anyway. In fact I have never shot at a feral hog farther than 250 yards out. I don't see BC being a make it or break it issue. A blunt bullet going 2400 fps will work very well. Say a 170 gr. Hornady or 150 gr. Speer bullet made for the 30-30. It is odd the the Ballistic coefficient of a particular bullet has become such a hot topic when virtually 80% of our shooting will be under 150 yards. If you know you are going to be hunting in an area of wide open spaces a short barreled 308 might not be your best choice anyway.


Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. "16" barrel for shooting light bullets" per the OP, does not warrant much consideration of ballistic coefficient. Something like IMR 8208 XBR which the fireman mentioned already.


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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: Smokey Bear] #7094975
02/27/18 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Smokey Bear
Originally Posted By: rickt300
If your main target is pigs your not going to be shooting long range most of the time anyway. In fact I have never shot at a feral hog farther than 250 yards out. I don't see BC being a make it or break it issue. A blunt bullet going 2400 fps will work very well. Say a 170 gr. Hornady or 150 gr. Speer bullet made for the 30-30. It is odd the the Ballistic coefficient of a particular bullet has become such a hot topic when virtually 80% of our shooting will be under 150 yards. If you know you are going to be hunting in an area of wide open spaces a short barreled 308 might not be your best choice anyway.


Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. "16" barrel for shooting light bullets" per the OP, does not warrant much consideration of ballistic coefficient. Something like IMR 8208 XBR which the fireman mentioned already.


I guess I am different. I load and scope almost every centerfire rifle for the close shot, as well as the long shot. As mentioned, I considered BC. Of course that rifle has shot hogs mostly inside 250 yards, and many bullets will work for that. The time did come, where I was loaded for the "just in case", hogs at nearly 500 yards. Having shot and practiced with that rifle and load, I knew the correction, and let them fly.

I don't see a problem building ammo to go distance. It also works up close, by the way. And it did not cost any more money to build.



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7095047
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The problem becomes important when you set up your rifles for the furthest shot possible and make them less good at making the normal range shots. Beyond that I would have to visit a tactical course about 40 miles away to be on a range that goes to 600 yards. Most only have access to 100 yard ranges for practice. But I would rather carry a light rifle equipped with a low powered scope/thick reticle like a post or German #4 and easily be able to take anything inside of 300 yards rather than carrying a heavy, long and overscoped rifle set up for shots I won't get anyway. Plus with a rifle set up like I would do it I have something usable at night also. That said for the unusual situation where shooting would surely be over 250 yards I have rifles appropriate for that too. Your better off having two rifles instead of making one do everything.

Last edited by rickt300; 02/27/18 09:53 PM.
Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7095100
02/27/18 10:45 PM
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how many of us bring multiple rifles out for the hunts? or worse, to the blind ? I would NEVER do that smile


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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: rickt300] #7095120
02/27/18 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: rickt300
The problem becomes important when you set up your rifles for the furthest shot possible and make them less good at making the normal range shots. Beyond that I would have to visit a tactical course about 40 miles away to be on a range that goes to 600 yards. Most only have access to 100 yard ranges for practice. But I would rather carry a light rifle equipped with a low powered scope/thick reticle like a post or German #4 and easily be able to take anything inside of 300 yards rather than carrying a heavy, long and overscoped rifle set up for shots I won't get anyway. Plus with a rifle set up like I would do it I have something usable at night also. That said for the unusual situation where shooting would surely be over 250 yards I have rifles appropriate for that too. Your better off having two rifles instead of making one do everything.


This doesnt make sense.



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Re: Short-barreled 308 [Re: snarkscarbine] #7095198
02/28/18 12:04 AM
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The beauty of setting up your rifles is you set them up to suit your taste. Short barrel carbine to me says quick handling easy carrying in tight quarters so I shorten up to bring the weapon to bear quick to rip and tear at close range. If I have the possibility of a 500 yard shot where bc is actually a factor, I will also be carrying a full length barrel, so I can shoot close to the cartridges potential. It's the same reason I wouldn't drive a 'vette with a four banger.


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