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Mar 25th, 2012
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Lever rifle shoots high #7034070
01/11/18 02:30 PM
01/11/18 02:30 PM
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7six2 Offline OP
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When I bought my Mossberg 464 30-30 rifle I sighted in the iron sights with 170gr ammo and it required the rear sight be adjusted almost all the way down. Then recently I decided to try 150gr ammo, and it shoots very high...like around 8 inches,at 50 yards, compared to the 170gr. This is with three different brands of ammo. I understand barrel harmonics causing some POI shift but that seems extreme. However, the real problem is that my rear sight elevation doesn't adjust low enough to overcome this. Can anyone experienced with lever guns shed some light on what may be the cause?

Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034076
01/11/18 02:34 PM
01/11/18 02:34 PM
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been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.







Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: DLALLDER] #7034092
01/11/18 02:44 PM
01/11/18 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?

Last edited by Texas Dan; 01/11/18 02:51 PM.

Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: Texas Dan] #7034106
01/11/18 02:52 PM
01/11/18 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?


Texas Dan on second thought you may be correct. The Higher the rear sight the higher the point of impact will be but the lighter bullet 150 will be faster and flatter. Like said been a long time since iron sights were used by me.







Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: DLALLDER] #7034110
01/11/18 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by DLALLDER
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by DLALLDER
been a long time since these old eyes used iron sights but I think you need to raise the rear sight to bring the poi down.


It's just opposite isn't it? Old lever guns had a flip-up rear sight for making long distance shots, which caused the shooter to position or tilt the end of the barrel higher, correct?


Texas Dan on second thought you may be correct. The Higher the rear sight the higher the point of impact will be but the lighter bullet 150 will be faster and flatter. Like said been a long time since iron sights were used by me.


It brings to mind the scene from the movie Dances with Wolves were Costner makes the shot at a running buffalo after flipping up the rear sight on his lever gun. While it might have added more dramatic effect to the scene, not sure if it really would have helped unless the shooter was able to judge distance and know the setting of the sight.



Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034113
01/11/18 02:57 PM
01/11/18 02:57 PM
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OP is right- the rear sight has to go down to shoot lower.
See if you can find a taller front replacement blade- maybe Numrich or Brownells has one.


Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034118
01/11/18 02:59 PM
01/11/18 02:59 PM
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Dan got it right, to bring point of impact down you need to lower rear or raise front.

If you have maxed out the vertical adjustment you may see if you can find an alternate ramp with more adjustment or a taller blade(front sight) to replace the original. May be able to adjust how you align the sites as well.

Had a similar issue with a marlin 1895 45-70, accept we couldn't adjust the sight high enough to hit paper at 50 yards with cowboy action type factory loads. I ended up loading some up a little hotter that solved that problem and eventually the factor irons have been replaced with a peep sight.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034171
01/11/18 03:23 PM
01/11/18 03:23 PM
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Fixing the problem would require a higher front sight. However, I would be more concerned as to why the point of impact between the loads is so great at 50 yards.


You did what?
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034255
01/11/18 04:16 PM
01/11/18 04:16 PM
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Rear sight goes in the direction you want the shot to move. Front sight goes in the opposite direction you want the shot to move. if you can't drop the rear sight any lower, you need a taller front sight. It looks like the 464 has a dovetailed front sight. They aren't very expensive.

http://www.skinnersights.com/mossberg_464_11.html


"If your plan is for one year, plant rice.
If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."
-- Confucius
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034298
01/11/18 04:45 PM
01/11/18 04:45 PM
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I put Skinners on my BLR and can endorse the selection with considerable enthusiasm.


NRA Patron & DSC Lifer
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034337
01/11/18 05:14 PM
01/11/18 05:14 PM
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Back in the iron sight days, what we called "taking a fine bead" meant to sight with the front sight down at the very bottom of the rear sight "v". We also "sat" the bullseye on top of the front sight.You can think about it like doing a scope hold over using the mil marks on the crosshairs of the scope. You change the POI without really changing the way the rifle is sighted in. I don't know if that would give you enough correction to solve your problem, but it might...

Last edited by hermano W; 01/11/18 05:16 PM.
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034392
01/11/18 05:56 PM
01/11/18 05:56 PM
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Yep, take a fine bead and see what that will do. Top edge of the front post is all you see. If that does not work, a new front post is in order. If I were changing the front post, I would purchase a matching rear sight at the same time. The notch in the rear sight needs to be a dead nuts match for the bead at the top of the front post. Any slop in the fit will degrade accuracy at distance as it relates to windage.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034402
01/11/18 06:02 PM
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You can also deepen the notch in the rear sight if you have to. I think Brownells has a video on how to do it.

Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: hermano W] #7034442
01/11/18 06:29 PM
01/11/18 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: hermano W
Back in the iron sight days, what we called "taking a fine bead" meant to sight with the front sight down at the very bottom of the rear sight "v". We also "sat" the bullseye on top of the front sight.You can think about it like doing a scope hold over using the mil marks on the crosshairs of the scope. You change the POI without really changing the way the rifle is sighted in. I don't know if that would give you enough correction to solve your problem, but it might...


I'd be willing to adjust my sight picture, but it seems like what you suggested would raise my POI; and by working in the bottom of the "V" wouldn't that partially obscure the view of my target surroundings? Please correct me if I'm backwards, I've been known to mix things up lately.

Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034463
01/11/18 06:36 PM
01/11/18 06:36 PM
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Currently my front sight post is .570" tall. I could swap it to .600" or .650", that seems abnormally high to me. Stil...I'd be happy to change the sights since I dont like whats curently on there, but as was mentioned by Texasteach I wonder if there is something else going on for there to be such a wide difference between 150 and 170gr projectiles?

Last edited by 7six2; 01/11/18 06:38 PM.
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034471
01/11/18 06:41 PM
01/11/18 06:41 PM
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This is just me, but if the sights were hitting where I wanted with 170gr I'd stick to 170gr. You are not gaining or losing anything much by switching bullet weights using open sights on a 30-30.


Concho "I know enough to post here in redneck pot smoking bunker......that's for sure."
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: chalet] #7034474
01/11/18 06:42 PM
01/11/18 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: chalet
This is just me, but if the sights were hitting where I wanted with 170gr I'd stick to 170gr. You are not gaining or losing anything much by switching bullet weights using open sights on a 30-30.



This...


You did what?
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034500
01/11/18 07:07 PM
01/11/18 07:07 PM
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I wanted to see if 150gr would group a little better.

Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034613
01/11/18 08:23 PM
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What I suggested will make it shoot lower.Yes it will obstruct a little bit of your field of view, but not as much as a peep sight does. They used to make a rocky mountain open sight that was more or less a wider "u" with a little "v" at the bottom. Anyhow you may as well experiment some before you go to the expense of replacing your existing sights.

Last edited by hermano W; 01/11/18 08:28 PM.
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034622
01/11/18 08:27 PM
01/11/18 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: 7six2
I wanted to see if 150gr would group a little better.


Shooting an open sighted .30-.30 at short distances, you don't need "benchrest" groups...I would shoot the 170's and kill some deer and hogs.


You did what?
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7034629
01/11/18 08:32 PM
01/11/18 08:32 PM
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Solder a 1/2 BB or slice of a dime on top of the front sight.


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it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: blackcoal] #7035124
01/12/18 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: blackcoal
Solder a 1/2 BB or slice of a dime on top of the front sight.


Iíve got a 50 cal muzzleloader pistol that has half a penny for a front sight.


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Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7035471
01/12/18 02:33 PM
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Well I messed around with different sight pictures yesterday but wasn't happy. Until yesterday I hadn't realized how may options there are for replacing my iron sights, and since I don't like whats on there now, I'm just going to swap the front and rears and get a taller post while I'm at it. True I could just stick with 170gr ammo...but I like tinkering, and want to be as close to perfect as possible. Still though, I'm scratching my head as to why such a shift between the two loads. Maybe barrel band tightness?

Re: Lever rifle shoots high [Re: 7six2] #7035992
01/12/18 08:52 PM
01/12/18 08:52 PM
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Look into XS sights, they are ghost rings, put one on a Win. 94 AE in 45 Colt and it is much better than the original.

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