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Mar 25th, 2012
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Interesting article on SFP flexibility #7014358
12/28/17 01:59 PM
12/28/17 01:59 PM
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I ran across this on another forum and thought some of you guys might find it interesting and informative. Based on this article, I'd conclude that SFP scopes offer a little flexibilty and versitility that FFP does not. I guess the choice would boil down to what you're used to and what you're doing.


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7014393
12/28/17 02:36 PM
12/28/17 02:36 PM
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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7014400
12/28/17 02:40 PM
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I love 2nd FP because I will know my range (range finder) with time to dial. I don't need to use my scope to range target.

I'll leave this for the "real" snipers.

plus, I don't like the reticle getting bigger as magnification goes up.

again, this is just me, I'm no "operator" just a old, fat, man who likes to shoot stuff

i'm sure all the "snipers" and "operators" on here will be along to "straighten" me out hammer


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7014418
12/28/17 02:50 PM
12/28/17 02:50 PM
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The article is not about superiority of one over the other...it's just about some options SFP offers. I figure it's like most things---you give up one thing to gain another.

I posted this to present the other side of the discussion because SFP has taken such a beating here in this forum. I'm not selling it, I'm just showing it and it's free to whomever wants it.


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7015128
12/29/17 01:28 AM
12/29/17 01:28 AM
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I did not read the article, but I will comment.

Here are your elevation corrections:

200 .5
300 1.0
400 1.8
500 2.6
600 3.6
700 4.7
800 5.8

Want to hold that? Ok, those numbers will ONLY be correct at maximum magnification.
Plan on dialing it? Then it is a non-issue.

Here's your wind hold for 5 mph @ 90į

200 .1
300 .2
400 .3
500 .4
600 .5
700 .6
800 .7

Those numbers are ONLY correct at maximum magnification. Plan to dial it? Sure. Oops, now it gusted, dial more. Done dialing wind? Cool, the gust quit, dial it back down. Done dialing wind, again? Cool, now it's gusting again. Get the picture?

Too much mirage to see what you're doing? Turn down the magnification. Oh, wait, now all your hold value (wind and/or elevation) have just changed.

I've let my customers, that show up with SFP decide for themselves. All I do is get them down the range dialing elevation, then start over holding, then turn up the heat with challenges. I can't remember any of them not saying "well, I'm getting rid of this and going to FFP".



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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: FiremanJG] #7015166
12/29/17 01:57 AM
12/29/17 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I did not read the article, but I will comment.



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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7015186
12/29/17 02:06 AM
12/29/17 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I did not read the article, but I will comment.



What?

I've deal with both focal planes for enough rounds, I'm pretty sure it contains no new information for me. There aren't that many moving parts, so to speak.



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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7015218
12/29/17 02:25 AM
12/29/17 02:25 AM
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I'm not a big fan of SFP because from an optical standpoint, it's almost impossible for them to not have zero shift when zooming and changing parallax due to where the reticle is in the optical design. FFP does not have this issue. The shift may not be huge, but it is there and it will impact you for precision shooting.

For me:

hunting --> SFP
precision or long range --> FFP
all-around --> FFP with good reticle

Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7015281
12/29/17 03:13 AM
12/29/17 03:13 AM
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What they bring up in the article doesnít seem nearly useful enough to trump the advantages of FFP. Not for me, anyway.


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7015851
12/29/17 06:22 PM
12/29/17 06:22 PM
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I need to buy some good 7-08 ammo and come out for a ffp primer


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: Buzzsaw] #7015964
12/29/17 08:32 PM
12/29/17 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
I need to buy some good 7-08 ammo and come out for a ffp primer


I'm not sure but I think you got banned for using the "S" word, not once but twice. trout


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: OkieDokie] #7016177
12/29/17 11:46 PM
12/29/17 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: OkieDokie
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
I need to buy some good 7-08 ammo and come out for a ffp primer


I'm not sure but I think you got banned for using the "S" word, not once but twice. trout


confused2


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016201
12/30/17 12:05 AM
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I've never seen a scope that functions as described in the article. Every scope I've used had the reticle calibrated to be used at the highest magnification.

Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: Buzzsaw] #7016382
12/30/17 02:29 AM
12/30/17 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: OkieDokie
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
I need to buy some good 7-08 ammo and come out for a ffp primer


I'm not sure but I think you got banned for using the "S" word, not once but twice. trout


confused2


You used the word sniper, I donít JG likes that word.


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016444
12/30/17 03:09 AM
12/30/17 03:09 AM
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I do not have a tab, never will. I've shot with, and against them, in targets. But, I've never had to line up on a human, and have yet to had to worry about someone shooting back.



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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: OkieDokie] #7016586
12/30/17 04:51 AM
12/30/17 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: OkieDokie
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: OkieDokie
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
I need to buy some good 7-08 ammo and come out for a ffp primer


I'm not sure but I think you got banned for using the "S" word, not once but twice. trout


confused2


You used the word sniper, I don’t JG likes that word.


I didn't call anyone out but will be more careful from now on hammer


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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: FiremanJG] #7016602
12/30/17 05:04 AM
12/30/17 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I did not read the article, but I will comment.

Here are your elevation corrections:

200 .5
300 1.0
400 1.8
500 2.6
600 3.6
700 4.7
800 5.8

Want to hold that? Ok, those numbers will ONLY be correct at maximum magnification.
Plan on dialing it? Then it is a non-issue.

Here's your wind hold for 5 mph @ 90į

200 .1
300 .2
400 .3
500 .4
600 .5
700 .6
800 .7

Those numbers are ONLY correct at maximum magnification. Plan to dial it? Sure. Oops, now it gusted, dial more. Done dialing wind? Cool, the gust quit, dial it back down. Done dialing wind, again? Cool, now it's gusting again. Get the picture?

Too much mirage to see what you're doing? Turn down the magnification. Oh, wait, now all your hold value (wind and/or elevation) have just changed.

I've let my customers, that show up with SFP decide for themselves. All I do is get them down the range dialing elevation, then start over holding, then turn up the heat with challenges. I can't remember any of them not saying "well, I'm getting rid of this and going to FFP".


Absolutely no sarcasm here, I'm asking because I don't know. I'm about to buy a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (I'm generally not a new/popular cartridge kind of guy, but this one has really grabbed my attention). I'm also going to need a new scope for it and I initially thought about a FFP scope but didn't think it would make any difference for what I do. For the record, my rifle will be for hunting out to 300 +/- and paper out to around 500. No official competition, just maybe winning a few bucks from my BIL here and there and personal satisfaction. smile Would FFP offer me a significant advantage over SFP with those parameters?


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016618
12/30/17 05:15 AM
12/30/17 05:15 AM
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Grizz, what scope and reticle are you planning on using?


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: Sneaky] #7016630
12/30/17 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Grizz, what scope and reticle are you planning on using?


A front runner right now is a Leupold VX3i 4.5-14x40 side focus with a Boone and Crockett reticle. Since I'm buying a rifle and scope at the same time, I'm reluctant to push the price range much beyond that (unfortunately, my taste doesn't exactly coincide with my budget). Plus, I've used Leupold scopes off and on for years and I've always been happy with them.


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016648
12/30/17 06:01 AM
12/30/17 06:01 AM
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That's a great scope Griz, I think you would be happy with it for your intended use. The cartridge itself should take anything to 300 without even worrying about any dialing elevation, there are tables which show how many actual inches to hold over. will still work to 400 on steel. You don't really have to get involved in all this FFP, SFP, dial up, dial back, zero stops, etc. stuff

just shoot and have fun. Now if you do want to get into it, that's a whole other road.

just my .02


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
King George Strait


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016656
12/30/17 06:07 AM
12/30/17 06:07 AM
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Sounds like a fine choice. I prefer a mil or moa reticle over a BDC style, but they work, too. I even use one.

I think youíll be better off with FFP. 14X probably isnít too much too worry about always being at max magnification to make the BDC work, but itís simpler to not have to have it there, and nice to be able to turn it down when needed and still know that itís accurate.


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016662
12/30/17 06:11 AM
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Buzz - That was my thought as well, but I'm also open to other ideas. I've been shooting/hunting for a long time, but I'm a rookie with the FFP/SFP thing.

Last edited by Grizz; 12/30/17 06:12 AM.

Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: Grizz] #7016827
12/30/17 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Grizz
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I did not read the article, but I will comment.

Here are your elevation corrections:

200 .5
300 1.0
400 1.8
500 2.6
600 3.6
700 4.7
800 5.8

Want to hold that? Ok, those numbers will ONLY be correct at maximum magnification.
Plan on dialing it? Then it is a non-issue.

Here's your wind hold for 5 mph @ 90į

200 .1
300 .2
400 .3
500 .4
600 .5
700 .6
800 .7

Those numbers are ONLY correct at maximum magnification. Plan to dial it? Sure. Oops, now it gusted, dial more. Done dialing wind? Cool, the gust quit, dial it back down. Done dialing wind, again? Cool, now it's gusting again. Get the picture?

Too much mirage to see what you're doing? Turn down the magnification. Oh, wait, now all your hold value (wind and/or elevation) have just changed.

I've let my customers, that show up with SFP decide for themselves. All I do is get them down the range dialing elevation, then start over holding, then turn up the heat with challenges. I can't remember any of them not saying "well, I'm getting rid of this and going to FFP".


Absolutely no sarcasm here, I'm asking because I don't know. I'm about to buy a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (I'm generally not a new/popular cartridge kind of guy, but this one has really grabbed my attention). I'm also going to need a new scope for it and I initially thought about a FFP scope but didn't think it would make any difference for what I do. For the record, my rifle will be for hunting out to 300 +/- and paper out to around 500. No official competition, just maybe winning a few bucks from my BIL here and there and personal satisfaction. smile Would FFP offer me a significant advantage over SFP with those parameters?


I still recommend a Mil scope. If you are keeping the magnification range down to 12X or less, you could get by with SFP. But you will have to use maximum magnification to use one chart. If you go to half your magnification you will need to cut the values in half.

Not pointing any fingers at you or anyone else. Lots of people talk about 500 yards, but have a different attitude when they see it. In spite of what "the internet" says all bullets drop, and all bullets wind drift, there is no way around it. Thats where Mils come in.

And by the way, those numbers above are 6.5 Creedmoor numbers.



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Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: FiremanJG] #7016952
12/30/17 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Grizz
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
I did not read the article, but I will comment.

Here are your elevation corrections:

200 .5
300 1.0
400 1.8
500 2.6
600 3.6
700 4.7
800 5.8

Want to hold that? Ok, those numbers will ONLY be correct at maximum magnification.
Plan on dialing it? Then it is a non-issue.

Here's your wind hold for 5 mph @ 90į

200 .1
300 .2
400 .3
500 .4
600 .5
700 .6
800 .7

Those numbers are ONLY correct at maximum magnification. Plan to dial it? Sure. Oops, now it gusted, dial more. Done dialing wind? Cool, the gust quit, dial it back down. Done dialing wind, again? Cool, now it's gusting again. Get the picture?

Too much mirage to see what you're doing? Turn down the magnification. Oh, wait, now all your hold value (wind and/or elevation) have just changed.

I've let my customers, that show up with SFP decide for themselves. All I do is get them down the range dialing elevation, then start over holding, then turn up the heat with challenges. I can't remember any of them not saying "well, I'm getting rid of this and going to FFP".


Absolutely no sarcasm here, I'm asking because I don't know. I'm about to buy a new rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor (I'm generally not a new/popular cartridge kind of guy, but this one has really grabbed my attention). I'm also going to need a new scope for it and I initially thought about a FFP scope but didn't think it would make any difference for what I do. For the record, my rifle will be for hunting out to 300 +/- and paper out to around 500. No official competition, just maybe winning a few bucks from my BIL here and there and personal satisfaction. smile Would FFP offer me a significant advantage over SFP with those parameters?


I still recommend a Mil scope. If you are keeping the magnification range down to 12X or less, you could get by with SFP. But you will have to use maximum magnification to use one chart. If you go to half your magnification you will need to cut the values in half.

Not pointing any fingers at you or anyone else. Lots of people talk about 500 yards, but have a different attitude when they see it. In spite of what "the internet" says all bullets drop, and all bullets wind drift, there is no way around it. Thats where Mils come in.

And by the way, those numbers above are 6.5 Creedmoor numbers.


That's good info, thanks. I've always been a simple point and shoot guy, but 99.99% of the animals I've shot have been at 200 and less so it hasn't been an issue. Some of this stuff makes my head spin muyloco.
I threw 500 in because I have a 500 yard range about 30 minutes from me and I shot 500 a little in Alaska (range, not animals). You're right, 500 is way out there when you're slinging bullets at a gong. It took me three rounds to get my first hit, but when I rang it I figured out two things: 1) It's something I would like to do more, and 2) I'm not prepared to shoot at an animal at that range right now and I may or may not ever be comfortable with it.


Re: Interesting article on SFP flexibility [Re: RiverRider] #7016960
12/30/17 03:55 PM
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Not out of money lust do I say this.

Get your rifle, good shooting ammo, and a 20 MOA pic rail mounted. Come see me for a day, and borrow one of my Mil/Mil scopes. It will all make sense, I am 100% sure of it. You cannot find anyone that has been out for the day, that left uneducated, or unhappy. (Police officers included smile )



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