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Neck Sizing #7005016
12/21/17 02:42 AM
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What are the most important pluses to neck sizing? Does NS actually increase accuracy? Do you NS for hunting Loads or just target shooting?

Last edited by DLALLDER; 12/21/17 03:10 AM.






Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005046
12/21/17 02:57 AM
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in theory, neck sizing allows the ammo to remain more concentric to YOUR chamber. this, however, relies on your chamber being concentric itself. for a hunting or match rifle i prefer to FL size and bump the shpulders back .002-.003. in a live varmint or BR gun, i prefer neck sizing with a shoulder bump. if you want to try neck sizing, the lee collet dies load great ammo and you dont have to lube. i love them.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: Chuckw] #7005080
12/21/17 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: Chuckw
in theory, neck sizing allows the ammo to remain more concentric to YOUR chamber.
I'd like you to explain this? If your chamber is .001" off from being perfectly concentric and the fired brass is as well, then it could now be off .002" when you put it back in your gun if the brass is rotated 180 degrees from the orientation it was fired in the first time.

On your other comments, if you don't bump the shoulder at all, can you still chamber rounds easily? Mine don't easily reload in my Tikkas if I don't bump them at least a little.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005081
12/21/17 03:31 AM
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Don't ever neck size only.

Set a FL die to bump shoulders .002"-.003". It is sized the minimum to not over work the brass, it still yeilds max valocity for your powder charge, it will chamber, and it will eject after firing.

I use bushing FL dies for everything. RCBS, Redding, and Hornady. I'm not partial to one of those over the other, basically what is available. But all dies get Hornady lock rings, so there's one advantage to buying Hornady dies in the first place.



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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005145
12/21/17 04:57 AM
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I use Lee collet dies to neck size only. After every other firing I use Redding body dies to bump the shoulder back. This method, along with using Redding competition seating dies has been getting me great accuracy and long brass life so far. I only load for one rifle per caliber. If that were different I would change my routine.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005237
12/21/17 11:48 AM
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You CAN neck size only, at least with Lee collet dies. You do need to watch the shoulders, though. It will catch up to you after two or three firings.




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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005461
12/21/17 03:21 PM
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I neck size only with Lee collet dies. They are fantastic. I've not had to bump shoulders back yet on 7mag, 7-08, 243, 30-06. If the brass extracts easily from a chamber after firing, unless you're doing something wrong, after neck sizing only it will easily chamber again.

My runout has decreased drastically, and ammo realoaded has been more accurate. No lube necessary either.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005466
12/21/17 03:26 PM
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I LOVE the no-lube aspect of the collet die!




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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005526
12/21/17 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: DLALLDER
What are the most important pluses to neck sizing? Does NS actually increase accuracy? Do you NS for hunting Loads or just target shooting?


your brass will last longer - as you're only sizing the part that needs work to hold a bullet

you will need run a body die after 3 firings

does not increase precision of the loaded round - that depends on a lot of other factors (brass quality, concentricity etc .... )

the Redding bushing die will allow you to set the exact bullet tension on your prepared brass (need consistent neck wall thickness)

Last edited by cabosandinh; 12/21/17 04:18 PM.
Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005534
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Not saying it is THE way or the ONLY way or even the RIGHT way, but I neck size my 300 wby brass with a RCBS neck sizing die and run it through a FL die every 3rd firing. Never had a problem and have seen surprisingly long case life if not pushing them too hard.


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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005788
12/21/17 07:35 PM
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What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: patriot07] #7005838
12/21/17 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass foward some, lengthening it.


Re: Neck Sizing [Re: patriot07] #7005881
12/21/17 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: Chuckw
in theory, neck sizing allows the ammo to remain more concentric to YOUR chamber.
I'd like you to explain this? If your chamber is .001" off from being perfectly concentric and the fired brass is as well, then it could now be off .002" when you put it back in your gun if the brass is rotated 180 degrees from the orientation it was fired in the first time.

On your other comments, if you don't bump the shoulder at all, can you still chamber rounds easily? Mine don't easily reload in my Tikkas if I don't bump them at least a little.


.001 is quite a bit of runout in chamber but its not unheard of. you are right though, things do continually add together to increase runout. if you will read what i originally posted, you are relying on a concentric chamber to the bore to begin with. all reamers have different dimensions and what is neck sized in a match chamber would be loose in a SAAMI chamber. thats why i said "your". perfect ammo doesnt enhance a mediocre chambering job just like a perfect chambering job doesnt enchance mediocre ammo......
all things MUST work together for top accuracy.

Last edited by Chuckw; 12/21/17 08:53 PM.
Re: Neck Sizing [Re: postoak] #7005948
12/21/17 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: postoak
Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass forward some, lengthening it.


Which is why you should never have to bump back shoulders using the collet die. There's no expander ball.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: Jgraider] #7005961
12/21/17 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: postoak
Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass forward some, lengthening it.


Which is why you should never have to bump back shoulders using the collet die. There's no expander ball.


you will get a round that won't feed , eventually

then you know to run that brass through a body die

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7005992
12/21/17 10:15 PM
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I stopped neck sizing once I had a big problem with rounds not chambering. I won't do it. 90% of my personal ammo I will FL size. The other 10% for competition or LR ammo, I will bump size about .003".



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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: cabosandinh] #7006032
12/21/17 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: cabosandinh
you will get a round that won't feed , eventually

then you know to run that brass through a body die


Or bolt click will show up and become a pain...doesn't really affect anything but is a good nuisance.

A lot of the current benchrest guys have went back to FL sizing for that reason, it will slow them down.


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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: postoak] #7006475
12/22/17 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: postoak
Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass foward some, lengthening it.
That explains less of a need for trimming, but I guess I still don't understand why you don't need to bump the shoulder. At least some of my rounds typically won't chamber very easily if I dump them right back in the chamber after firing. I don't think collet sizing would have an effect on that. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe I just agree more with "always bump the shoulder a couple thousandths" approach.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: patriot07] #7006611
12/22/17 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: postoak
Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass foward some, lengthening it.
That explains less of a need for trimming, but I guess I still don't understand why you don't need to bump the shoulder. At least some of my rounds typically won't chamber very easily if I dump them right back in the chamber after firing. I don't think collet sizing would have an effect on that. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe I just agree more with "always bump the shoulder a couple thousandths" approach.

worked hardened brass doesnt "spring back" like new or freshly annealed brass does. also, if you are running higher pressures, it can cause the issue you are referring to. think about a revolver. with mild loads, you can turn the gun up and the brass will pretty much fall out of the cylinder. push the pressures up, and a hammer might be needed!

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7008264
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Makes sense, thanks!

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: cabosandinh] #7009002
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Originally Posted By: cabosandinh
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: postoak
Originally Posted By: patriot07
What is the difference between a collet die and a standard FL die that sizes with the expander ball?


The collet die presses the neck down onto a mandril. It's a radial inward force vs the expander ball of a regular sizing die which pulls the brass forward some, lengthening it.


Which is why you should never have to bump back shoulders using the collet die. There's no expander ball.


you will get a round that won't feed , eventually

then you know to run that brass through a body die


I'm betting you're wrong about that. Time will tell.

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7009007
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So is there anything wrong with running the FL die without the expander to bump the shoulder .002”-.003” and then running the collet die to size the neck?

Re: Neck Sizing [Re: Jgraider] #7009092
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: cabosandinh
Originally Posted By: Jgraider


Which is why you should never have to bump back shoulders using the collet die. There's no expander ball.


you will get a round that won't feed , eventually

then you know to run that brass through a body die


I'm betting you're wrong about that. Time will tell.




Time has already told ME you need to bump shoulders periodically.




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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: DLALLDER] #7009120
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If you leave a little of the fire formed neck when resizing it will be more centered in the chamber neck. You don't neck size the whole neck. I try to leave .030" or .040". I will do all of my bolt actions like that. The AR's get full length sized for function.


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Re: Neck Sizing [Re: RiverRider] #7009146
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Originally Posted By: cabosandinh

you will get a round that won't feed , eventually

then you know to run that brass through a body die


I'm betting you're wrong about that. Time will tell.




Time has already told ME you need to bump shoulders periodically.


^^Me too.

It is also a very unfortunate scenario when a fired brass will not eject, without getting ugly with it. I saw this at a ranch in September, at their rifle range. Guy fired his shot, wrestled the bolt handle up, and could not go any farther. Someone came and got me. I told him, I know what to do, but it is pretty violent, and one of two things will happen. The bolt will open, or the bolt handle will break off. He said, I've got a spare rifle, go for it. I stood the rifle, muzzle up, and stomped on his bolt handle with my boot.

The bolt opened. I asked if he neck sizes only. Sure enough. I recommended he stopped doing that, he agreed.



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