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Mar 25th, 2012
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Interesting Gunsmith Post #7002646
12/19/17 06:01 PM
12/19/17 06:01 PM
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from another forum, thought this might be of interest. The discussion was about Weatherby's new advertising descriptions and wandered off as threads do.

The highlights are in the original.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread...ns#Post12478715


Originally Posted By: szihn
I would take a Howa action (Weatherby Vanguard) in preference to about any other push feed action with a possible exception of a Ruger American. (Jury is still out. The American is too new to know for sure, but so far I have had no complaints or issues with the Rugers)

As a gunsmith I get to see the bad ones and the "sick guns" and the ones that I fix the most are the 700 Remington actions.

The one that I have seen break 4 times, and the company will NOT do a thing to help is Tikka. 4 of them have come to my shop with the bolt body broken out behind the root of the bolt handle. (the rear of the dovetail) Tikka says "tough" and will do NOTHING to help At ALL! For that reason alone I will not recommend Tikka. Too bad, they are super smooth and super accurate, but they have NO and I do mean NO customer support at all.

I can't say what Howa's policy is because I have never seen one break. I have seen a few minor issues that I was able to fix with the extractors dragging when left to rust. Easy fix, and not the fault of the gun. I don't like the cheep feeling bottom metal and painted decal "HOWA" on the floor plate, but that just a preference. As far as function goes, I rank the Howa as either the #1 push feed action on the American market, or a tie for 1st place with the new Ruger.

I did have a Weatherby Mk5 come in for a restock last year with a broken trigger guard. The customer had a plastic stock and wanted one of my nice Bastogne stocks so I did the work for him. I had him call Weatherby about the broken TG and they sold him a new one at a very high price (about $140 is what he told me) That's a different action and a different importer than Legacy USA however. So I have no idea what Legacy would have done if it had been a Howa action. Might be worth a phone call just to ask.
If anything was to make me lean to the Ruger over the Howa it would be customer support. I know that if anything breaks on a Ruger they replace it free. Legacy/Howa may do the same, but you'd need to call them and find out.



Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002668
12/19/17 06:12 PM
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The Howa 1500/Weatherby Vanguard (same action) is a good action. The main issue with gun smith's on them is that the action threading is metric (Rem 700 and Tikka) are American Standard threading. Plus, the Howa actions have a tapered thread pitch, meaning the threading gets tighter the more you screw the barrel into the action. And there has not been a lot of aftermarket items for the Howa long action rifles (there are some for the short actions). These are negative trates of the Howa's.

The Tikka's that I have seen damaged were from hot hand loads. Jon Trammel in Breckenridge had 2 Tikka rifles in his shop that were damaged. One was a 6mm something. He laughed (his famous Jon Trammell chuckle) when I asked him about the rifle, because he knew the guy who shot it and was running it really hot. And 6mm's show excessive pressure VERY quickly, and you can go from a warm load to an excessive pressure load very easily. So any rifle can have damage when you over do it.



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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002679
12/19/17 06:15 PM
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#1, how do you break the back-end of the bolt unless you're doing something really stupid?
#2, Tikkas aren't that numerous, yet this guy's seen FOUR that have the exact same odd problem?
#3, it's 2017, where are the pics?




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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7002734
12/19/17 06:40 PM
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7002968
12/19/17 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

#3, it's 2017, where are the pics?


^^^^ This

And I am sure there is a email trail to go along with it when they contacted Tikka. Would like to see that as well as the pics.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003005
12/19/17 09:08 PM
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The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it.


You did what?
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003103
12/19/17 10:12 PM
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003353
12/20/17 01:15 AM
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If szihn says it happened, and in the forum where I believe this was picked up, then I am confident that it happened.




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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003359
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I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003379
12/20/17 01:42 AM
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Most likely heavy loads, that's why Tikka didn't support. The Howa (Weatherby Vanguard) actions are very smooth, much more so than Rem 700 (I have both), unfortunately the threading is a 'no-go' for some gunsmiths. I look forward to grabbing a Ruger American Varmint when I can. P_102


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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: JCB] #7003463
12/20/17 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.



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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003739
12/20/17 11:43 AM
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Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7003787
12/20/17 12:37 PM
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Beretta (Tikka) has horrible customer service. Theyíre known for it. But their stuff is top notch so I just buy it and hope I never need it again. Sent a Sako back once.



Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: FiremanJG] #7003969
12/20/17 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.


Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action nuts




yes, I totally made that up


Originally Posted By: Phil Robertson
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004141
12/20/17 04:01 PM
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A Little History with roots that are still giving evidence of the past...

Tikka and SAKO were merged corporately in 1984 when the Finnish government divested it self of the Tikka & Finn Military machine gun mfg'ing plant ownership.

Beretta has ALWAYS been known for having Zero Customer Service...nothing new here. SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality investment cast lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta. Just Sayin' nuthin' new here about Beretta's Cust Svc.
Ron


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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Judd] #7004151
12/20/17 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Judd
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: JCB
I don't doubt that it happened but there has to be and explanation as to why it happened and why Tikka refused to do anything about it.


Yup.

Bet I've put 6000 rounds between two Tikka actions. Not a single hiccup.


Well that explains it...you don't see failures until your are north of 10k on an action nuts




yes, I totally made that up


That must be it. POS actions, they only hold up for 10,000 rounds!



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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: WileyCoyote] #7004161
12/20/17 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: WileyCoyote
SAKO cust svc was difficult but could be had in the US when the Sodini Family still ran Stoeger in New Jersey, and had reserected the SAKO line after the Garcia Imports debacle almost killed the SAKO line in the US, before the fallout 'tween Nokia and the LLAMA mfg'ing ownership that is still a family owned operation in Spain who'se primary bidnizz is high quality lost wax computer to commercial airplane parts ...that later led to Nokia selling SAKO to Beretta.


Longest run-on sentence ever!

roflmao



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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004232
12/20/17 04:50 PM
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Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat... banana

It's called "stream of concienness" writing" made infamous by Jack Kerouack book of "Travel's with Charly" of hitchiking across the country in the early '50s' while TOTALLY STONED...and why I had to take Freshman English 3 times in college... bolt
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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: WileyCoyote] #7004235
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Originally Posted By: WileyCoyote
Nah...I can do LOTS better than thaat... banana
Ron


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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7004319
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OMG this isn't going to go over well.


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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: FiremanJG] #7004376
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...or conceniousness, depending on your level of sobriety on any given day... cyclo
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"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Texas Dan] #7005132
12/21/17 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Tikka's are made in Finland, while Ruger's are made in Arizona. That could also explain the differences in Customer Support.


There are many foreign companies that have excellent customer service e.g. Accuracy International, Zeiss and Swarovski . That canít be an acceptable reason to have poor customer support in a country they sell products in.

Last edited by fast88; 12/21/17 04:34 AM.
Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7005273
12/21/17 12:46 PM
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Beretta... that pretty much covers it in my opinion. I tried a few years back to communicate with them about several rifles that tikka made but they would not import. Their response was less than stellar with form emails telling me where to shop based on my location to get the rifles they do import. Iím considering having a rifle brought in out of Canada because they actually have them there.

I have had issues with a ruger and a Springfield EMP. Both companies had awesome service, fixed my guns, paid for shipping, apologized, and sent them back with more than I sent them.

For anyone curious no I didnít want beretta to import a gun just for me. I did however expect them to help guide me in the direction I needed to go. Thatís what I consider customer service.

Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: Texasteach] #7005374
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Originally Posted By: Texasteach
The person being quoted in the post is not your ordinary screw them together gun plumber. He is perhaps the finest craftsman of traditional style muzzleloaders in the world. He also is a Master Gunsmith and is an incredible stock maker. If he says a bolt broke, I don't need a picture to verify it.


I'd like to see WHERE it broke. Was it the same bolt that broke four times? Did these all belong to the same owner? The back of the bolt isn't a pressure point, it is certainly weird that it would break in that location. Aftermarket stock that the bolt was hitting?




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Re: Interesting Gunsmith Post [Re: jeffbird] #7005380
12/21/17 02:16 PM
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operator errors


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