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Mar 25th, 2012
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Question about bullets and high shoulder shots #6988515
12/08/17 05:52 PM
12/08/17 05:52 PM
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I shot a doe this morning using the high shoulder shot. Iím shooting a .308 with custom reloads using nosler ballistic tips. I shot her at 200 yards and dropped her. I know the high shoulder is not a shot in the vitals and doesnít always lead to drt shots. She started to get up and I put another one into her, but made a poor shot (adrenaline maybe, never had to take a follow up shot, so I was a little rattled) and hit her in the backstrap/spine area, and she drug herself into the brush, couldnít get a 3rd shot because she was behind some briars. But I could see her occasionally working her way to the brush. Waited a few minutes, and figured she had to be dead by now, found her trying to get through a cross fence, but couldnít make it. 3rd round in the neck ended her.

Couple questions, is a bullet that is made to expand rapidly like a ballistic tip not a good choice for high shoulder? Some fragments made it through the shoulder and came through the front of the ribcage, and her shoulder is absolutely broken, flopping all over the place. Would a soft point be better for this shot? And second how often do you guys who shoot high shoulder see a deer get up and go 50+ yards? Especially with a 2nd round in them? Even though it was a poor shot, Iíd have bet money a shot to the spine would have been a 100% instant kill.

Anyways, give me your thoughts? When I was younger I always shot soft point (coreloct, Winchester silver box, etc) but Iíve shot several deer now in the vitals with ballistic tips and theyíve never gone more than 20 yards or so, but my stand on our family place is about 200 yards from a boundary fence, and this doe was about 40 yards from it at the time so I switched it up to hopefully anchor her so she woudnt have a chance to make it to the fence.

Last edited by Tff caribou; 12/08/17 05:54 PM.

The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988532
12/08/17 06:02 PM
12/08/17 06:02 PM
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At that distance your ballistic tip should expand fine. The short shots(under 100yards) is when I'd be worried.


Originally Posted By: Grizz
Wingshooting is like sex for me - I love doing it but I'm just not that good at it.
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: rickym] #6988547
12/08/17 06:08 PM
12/08/17 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted By: rickym
At that distance your ballistic tip should expand fine. The short shots(under 100yards) is when I'd be worried.


If thatís the case, maybe it was just a fluke. And she was just a tough old doe.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988563
12/08/17 06:18 PM
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This is just me here, I love the high shoulder shot

But I swore off anything ballistic tipped earlier this year.

I have had several not pass on animals (1 hog and 1 buck)

I shot a deer a few weeks ago w cheap Core Lokts.

Complete pass through! Fell maybe 10 yards away pouring blood

I'm done w ballistic tips...


Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988577
12/08/17 06:30 PM
12/08/17 06:30 PM
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What weight BT are you using?

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988594
12/08/17 06:40 PM
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I would reconsider/recheck your shot placement. If you did the high shoulder shot correctly your first shot would have hit the spine and front reaches of the back straps.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988597
12/08/17 06:42 PM
12/08/17 06:42 PM
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That shot depends more on penetration, and less on expansion. So IMO, that bullet is not a good choice for that shot.

I would use a tougher bullet shooting right into the shoulder bone.

When you get penetration, the results are spectacular. When you donít, the results are what you got.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988614
12/08/17 06:52 PM
12/08/17 06:52 PM
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I'm interested to see what others say here. I posted a thread recently about high shoulder shots. My best spot is near a fence line so I was planning on shooting high shoulder. However, I'm shooting a 117 gr Hornady Superformance ballistic tip (25-06). While I have seen great results with this round in the past, it was always on behind the shoulder shots. Your post is making me re consider if high shoulder is really my best option with what I'm shooting.

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988635
12/08/17 07:08 PM
12/08/17 07:08 PM
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All these BT failures...scratch I'll stick with my Core lokts and Federal Power shoks!!

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988637
12/08/17 07:09 PM
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What weight bullet? How high in the shoulder?


Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Teal28] #6988645
12/08/17 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Teal28
What weight bullet? How high in the shoulder?


Donít recall bullet weight. It dads rifle. I didnít have a chance to get my rifle sighted in before season and have been using his. As far as how high, basically center of the neck but obviously over the shoulder. If that makes sense.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988656
12/08/17 07:19 PM
12/08/17 07:19 PM
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Did he sight his in this season?


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: redchevy] #6988666
12/08/17 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Did he sight his in this season?


Yes. Bullet went right where I was aiming. After looking at some pictures of high shoulder shot placement, I think I was a couple inches lower than I should have been. Broke her leg and not a whole lot else.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988717
12/08/17 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
Originally Posted By: redchevy
Did he sight his in this season?


Yes. Bullet went right where I was aiming. After looking at some pictures of high shoulder shot placement, I think I was a couple inches lower than I should have been. Broke her leg and not a whole lot else.


If you went far enough under the spine not to disrupt it, usually you hit lungs in some fashion. Sounds like you hit spine. Just didnít emancipate it completely

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988748
12/08/17 08:22 PM
12/08/17 08:22 PM
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I've killed several WTails who were really close to a boundary but still legal for me, by thinking of the deer in 3 Dimension and able to visualize the off side shoulder as well as the onside shoulder for an anchoring shot.

Shot one thru a trimmed football sized hole in a thick branched cedar where the deer were easing down a jeep trail staying "hidden" behind the cedars about 85/90 yards away...and broke both shoulders with a tougher than normal 270 130gr Grand Slam I'd brought looking for some mature Red Deer that had escaped from an adjacent ranch the Rangers had told us about and warned us to "use enough bullet" for an anchoring shot...the deer "bulldozed" her way down hill on her chin off the jeep trail with both shoulders destroyed and piled up about 10 yards away at the jeep trails high spoil bank shoulder, with the boundary fence about 10 yards away.

Another one was at the edge of a Lottery Hunt corned area cut out of waist high weeds and was 10-15 yards from escaping into a thicket about 125/130 yards away...hit her with a 6.5 Swede's 120gr Sierra ProHunter at 28/2900fps with a clean entry in the mid crease but I was aiming for the offside's shoulder/leg socket and busted the socket & penetrating 'bout half way thru the ball of the joint, taking out all the hvac as well for the quickest DRT I've ever had, as she was dead mid stride and folded back on her self. No meat loss on that one either.

Just Sayin ...think of the target animal in 3D and realize the bullet's potential path is not at a flat 90* angle from a hit, but follows the angle from which you are shooting at.
Ron


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Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988799
12/08/17 08:54 PM
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A rapid expanding bullet is not a good choice for a high shoulder shot, which will equal the results you got.

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6988821
12/08/17 09:13 PM
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You missed the spine. For that shot to be 100% effective, you need to sever the spine. Over or under can cause temporary paralysis, but leave the deer alive to run off like yours did. Study the anatomy and learn how far the spine runs underneath the back.


Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Sneaky] #6988888
12/08/17 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
You missed the spine. For that shot to be 100% effective, you need to sever the spine. Over or under can cause temporary paralysis, but leave the deer alive to run off like yours did. Study the anatomy and learn how far the spine runs underneath the back.


Yep. Youre right. After looking at some deer skeleton and anatomy pictures, I was probably 3-4Ē low. At the end of the day, I recovered her, and I learned something. Just hate that I had to learn it at her expense.


The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6989362
12/09/17 05:09 AM
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Experience is the best teacher. Thatís how I learned about this.


Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6989374
12/09/17 05:27 AM
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If shooting a doe for meat, I am going behind shoulder always. Most doe drop right there anyway. Bucks run about 30 to 50 yards. You hunting for deer management numbers or meat? For whatever reason all doe I shoot behind shoulder fall so don't worry about them running. 165 grain on small body does that.

Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6989393
12/09/17 06:13 AM
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Sneaky is right you hit low for a high shoulder shot if you hit leg bone and not shoulder blade.

I have used the high shoulder shot many times and quite a few with 140gr Ballistic tips from a 7mm-08 and never had one take a step, DRT for bucks and does. If for anchoring them on the spot that is my choice of shots.

Study the deers anatomy the next time you field dress one, use a ruler or tape to see where the spine/backbone really is along with the other organs location

Last edited by kmon1; 12/09/17 06:17 AM.
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: procraft05] #6989938
12/09/17 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: procraft05
This is just me here, I love the high shoulder shot

But I swore off anything ballistic tipped earlier this year.

I have had several not pass on animals (1 hog and 1 buck)

I shot a deer a few weeks ago w cheap Core Lokts.

Complete pass through! Fell maybe 10 yards away pouring blood

I'm done w ballistic tips...


I've shot several deer with corelockts and not got a pass thru. Rarely do I get a pass thru from hornady interlocks either

I haven't gotten many pass thrus with accubonds either in my .257 wby

Of you absolutely have to have a pass thru, use a partition or a copper bullet


Ballistic tips are no more fragile than any other soft point on the market. Those issues they had blowing up were way back in the 90's.

Today all they are is a standard soft point with a plastic tip instead of a lead tip

Shooting 2 animals isn't a testament one way or the other on a bullets performance


Brandon Scott- Broker Associate - The Texas Ranch Company LLC.

Brokering Premium Farms and Ranches Across Texas. Specializing in Live Water/Investment Grade properties.
Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6989954
12/09/17 10:12 PM
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Not a fan of high shoulder shots. One to the vitals or a spine shot depending on position is my choice.


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Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: KingwoodCat] #6989958
12/09/17 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: KingwoodCat
Not a fan of high shoulder shots. One to the vitals or a spine shot depending on position is my choice.


So you don't like the high shoulder but you'll take a spine shot?


Elaborate on the location of this spine shot


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Re: Question about bullets and high shoulder shots [Re: Tff caribou] #6989963
12/09/17 10:23 PM
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Usually spine shots are UH-0's that people go back to camp bragging about how "he dropped in his tracks". They will never admit it was an accident.

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