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Mar 25th, 2012
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Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer #6982708
12/04/17 11:03 PM
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Thought this article following a deer through the years would be of interest.

https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner


Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6982739
12/04/17 11:20 PM
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I have always liked this article/pictorial. It shows that if you just keep things simple and let deer mature, you never know what you will see grow.

I just visited a friend's place in southwest Texas. Free range ranchettes varying in size from 50 acres to 300 which he has. Has some friends "helping" with the upkeep and management. Killed a 2-3 year old 8 point that looked just like this buck at 2.5 and called it a cull. I kept my mouth shut as I didn't want to stir the pot and create an uncomfortable situation.

Thanks for posting this jeffbird. up


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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6982752
12/04/17 11:24 PM
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That's why I refuse to shoot a yearling regardless of what's on it's head! You never know what genetics you are "culling" at that age.

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6982760
12/04/17 11:31 PM
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Years ago in one of the mags there were pictures of a buck at the Mississippi state deer research facility that went from small 3pt with very small fork at 1.5 that turned into a 237inch non-typical. Now a 2.5 or older spike gets shot on my place if I can

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6982769
12/04/17 11:35 PM
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Good read!


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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983342
12/05/17 06:08 AM
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Yep, so hard on a lease to get age on them. Impressive. We finally had a guy pass on a nice 120 inch 9. If he can live, he will be very nice next year. Luckily our trigger happy guy already tagged out on a 3 year old 13 inch (my measurement was less than 13 inches) 10 pt and 1 year old 5 inch spike. He likes backstraps though...

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983385
12/05/17 11:36 AM
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Good article. Thanks for posting it.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983405
12/05/17 12:27 PM
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Interesting and good article up

Wonder how he is positive that is the same buck in pic 1. buck/spike at 1 1/2 and nice main frame 8 point at 2 1/2?
Think about it, he is on a 3,000 acre private ranch not high fenced in the NY Adirondack mountains which makes spotting and tracking non tagged deer even harder.

If I have not taken a buck that I deem worthy, I am still shooting rifle a spike for it is hard to convince me that if you have two 1 1/2 year olds bucks, one is a spike and the other is a 4 or 6 point, that the spike could have the same potential as the 4 or 6 pointer.

Last edited by Stub; 12/05/17 12:28 PM.

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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #6983484
12/05/17 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
I have always liked this article/pictorial. It shows that if you just keep things simple and let deer mature, you never know what you will see grow.

I just visited a friend's place in southwest Texas. Free range ranchettes varying in size from 50 acres to 300 which he has. Has some friends "helping" with the upkeep and management. Killed a 2-3 year old 8 point that looked just like this buck at 2.5 and called it a cull. I kept my mouth shut as I didn't want to stir the pot and create an uncomfortable situation.

Thanks for posting this jeffbird. up


Yea, I was actually thinking the same thing. Not sure why the deer was taken, but will address that later when he and I can sit down and chat.. heh I let 4 deer walk, one which I thought could have been taken, but I chose to err on the side of caution.

Technically, we could and maybe should take 10-12 deer a year on the ranch, but with people doing stupid crap, I would rather take 1-3 and see the herd improve than try to "cull" deer and have mistakes like that damage the herd.

I know we are having an impact, but each year we seem to have someone make a mistake.. one year it was a 4-point (taken on purpose), next year an 8-point that was too young.. then again the following year.

We are making headway, but it is frustrating.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: Stub] #6983493
12/05/17 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stub
Interesting and good article up

Wonder how he is positive that is the same buck in pic 1. buck/spike at 1 1/2 and nice main frame 8 point at 2 1/2?
Think about it, he is on a 3,000 acre private ranch not high fenced in the NY Adirondack mountains which makes spotting and tracking non tagged deer even harder.

If I have not taken a buck that I deem worthy, I am still shooting rifle a spike for it is hard to convince me that if you have two 1 1/2 year olds bucks, one is a spike and the other is a 4 or 6 point, that the spike could have the same potential as the 4 or 6 pointer.


I have seen that piece and enjoyed it. I have the same nagging doubts as you about the certainty of the first pic being the same deer.
Even so, no credible person ever says “always” or “never” when it comes to WT deer. They are individuals just like people. You just have to make your best decisions playing the odds with imperfect information. I agree with you - if most of your yearlings are spikes, those decisions are just shots in the dark, as it were. If most of your yearlings are branch-antlered, the decision is easier. Even so, not every decision will be the best one. Again, just playing percentages.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: JohnRussell] #6983514
12/05/17 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: JohnRussell
Originally Posted By: Pitchfork Predator
I have always liked this article/pictorial. It shows that if you just keep things simple and let deer mature, you never know what you will see grow.

I just visited a friend's place in southwest Texas. Free range ranchettes varying in size from 50 acres to 300 which he has. Has some friends "helping" with the upkeep and management. Killed a 2-3 year old 8 point that looked just like this buck at 2.5 and called it a cull. I kept my mouth shut as I didn't want to stir the pot and create an uncomfortable situation.

Thanks for posting this jeffbird. up


Yea, I was actually thinking the same thing. Not sure why the deer was taken, but will address that later when he and I can sit down and chat.. heh I let 4 deer walk, one which I thought could have been taken, but I chose to err on the side of caution.

Technically, we could and maybe should take 10-12 deer a year on the ranch, but with people doing stupid crap, I would rather take 1-3 and see the herd improve than try to "cull" deer and have mistakes like that damage the herd.

I know we are having an impact, but each year we seem to have someone make a mistake.. one year it was a 4-point (taken on purpose), next year an 8-point that was too young.. then again the following year.

We are making headway, but it is frustrating.

Russ


I know it can be very frustrating.

We have found that getting everybody together for a pre season meeting to discuss the type of deer we want to kill has helped a lot. We look at pics of what a mature deers characteristics are. We also look at younger bucks characteristics to make sure we don't kill those deer. There are still gonna be mistakes, but they rarely occur on deer that are 3 or younger.


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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983534
12/05/17 02:18 PM
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Good call... we will see about implementing that idea. thanks! wink

R


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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983549
12/05/17 02:25 PM
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So how do yal feel about no browtine deer?

Had a 1.5 year old 6 a few years ago (3 on beams no brows) next year he was the same but just marginally bigger, little spread short tines and a slick no-brow 6. Do you shoot them? Do you pass them? We shot him.

A few years before we had a no brow 6 at 1.5. At 2.5 he was the same but we never got around to shooting him. At 3.5 he was actually an 8 pt but I don't think his brows were long enough to score and while he was a pretty deer too look at with pretty decent tine length on his other points he was considerably lagging his peers that had brows. We never saw him again, not sure what happened to him.

My thinking on spikes, I try not to shoot them all. Looking at them you can see that some are tiny and were likely born late and some are same size as the average yearlings just don't have branched antlers, those are the ones I look to shoot. If they have a fork or split or nub etc. I'm likely to pass them.

Oh and I also do not believe that they know its the same deer from spike on. This has been posted on here before though.

Last edited by redchevy; 12/05/17 02:26 PM.

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Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983553
12/05/17 02:28 PM
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All deer with no brow tine at 2.5 yrs old are fair game on my place.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6983568
12/05/17 02:37 PM
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Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6983686
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: SingleShot85] #6983733
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Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....



Breeding a 230lb 170” Breeder buck to his offspring and then doing the same process to 60lb yearling hill country spike and comparing is hardly ground breaking. It gets truly ignorant when you state a percentage bigger as the normal amongst the spikes local peers, although that wasn’t their experiment

Ironically the only guys truly tracking spike progress are those trying to replicate Kerr studies findings, but can’t amongst local populations... the opposite gets proven..... now define ignorant


Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: SingleShot85] #6983949
12/05/17 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....



You know... I hate starting a comment with "with all due respect" because it usually is preceded with comments that lack any notion of "respect". So, I will try this:

Seriously not trying to offend, just making an observation....

When you put something someone said in quotes like "ignorant" or "friend" you are just saying, "bless your heart..." you get the idea.

Nothing he said in his comment appeared to be written to offend. Without proof to the contrary, demanding proof yourself just makes you look like a ticked off person that just had to comment to slam someone.

I do not know if spikes can grow up to be trophy deer. I too grew up with the idea that you shoot all the spikes you see as they are genetically messed up. That does not mean that what people see and experience did not happen.

"To every rule, there is an exception. There is even an exception to this one."

That was a rule I was told in 12th grade and it has stuck with me a long time.

I would say that if you disagree, go find your percentages yourself. Demanding them from someone as if to say you are right and they are wrong because they have not shown proof is just as "ignorant".

Again, I am seriously not trying to be mean... I just got online, read a post and went, "geeze.. what the hell got a burr under that guy's saddle?"

Me, on the other hand, I have zero problem telling someone what the burr is and then kicking it to the side.

Anyway, going back to reading.

Russ


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: SingleShot85] #6984021
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Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....



Dr. James Kroll and another feller that know far more about deer management than you or me did a study just like that. Thier findings were that by age 3 and 4 the spikes had pretty much caught up to thier peers in the same age group. I sat through seminars showing thier findings as the data unfolded year after year.

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6984028
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I am curious....I hate to shoot a spike before it is like 3... never know if it will be something really.. hell.. even halfway nice.. but, the ones that have those really odd shaped antlers that start to curl, yea, those are sausage bait :P

R


Hunting is easy..it's getting permission from your wife that is tough.
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: JCB] #6984036
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Originally Posted By: JCB
Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....



Dr. James Kroll and another feller that know far more about deer management than you or me did a study just like that. Thier findings were that by age 3 and 4 the spikes had pretty much caught up to thier peers in the same age group. I sat through seminars showing thier findings as the data unfolded year after year.


roflmao barf

yeah...... I read "Dr. Deer's" study several years ago... what a piece of chit. I ripped wholes all in his methods results where any high school science student could have done a better job. He clearly had a specific agenda and set his "research" up to prove his point... don't be that here again but thanks.

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: JCB] #6984037
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Originally Posted By: JCB
Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Been a lot of tag studies involving spike bucks making it well over above average.

That podcaster dude that use to be on here,he shot a tag 150’sh deer that turned out to be a spike at birth. Was a LF STX study area I believe.

I have a friend in Tilden that had a spike go well into high 60’s


everyone has a "friend" that shot this or that.......

I want percentages of spikes, 4pt, 6pt, ect..... and average scores at 4.5, 5.5..... I don't care just pick an age as a standard

making decision for the future of anything based on exceptions rather than norms or what provides the best percentages is just ignorant....



Dr. James Kroll and another feller that know far more about deer management than you or me did a study just like that. Thier findings were that by age 3 and 4 the spikes had pretty much caught up to thier peers in the same age group. I sat through seminars showing thier findings as the data unfolded year after year.


I thought the findings were that spikes kind of caught up, but they never really did catch up completely to their branched antler peers. Is that wrong? Been a long time since I read any of it. I think its plain to see every once in a while you have a deer that is going to be something special. In our instance they usually have a higher number of points than their peers from an early age, so the spike being inferior seems to parallel that.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: JohnRussell] #6984039
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Originally Posted By: JohnRussell
.. hell.. even halfway nice..


not a philosophy for quality management.........

Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6984054
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Its the most argued about thing in management.

There is no clear answer. Any objective source would say so. So it's up to each landowner/manager to decide for themselves.

To me, it's just common sense that if one has a pool of same-aged deer and some are bigger than others - most of the bigger ones are more likely to remain bigger than the others as they get older.

The vast majority of landowners (me included) have a lot more important issues to deal with than whether to shoot spikes or not.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Spike to a Booner - Photos of Aging Deer [Re: jeffbird] #6984063
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Russ, thats my point...... I wasn't trying being a dck you'd know if that was the case. my point was that whenever someone bring up a spike to a booner its one in a "million" that the person bringing it up is the one who shot it giant buck that used to be a spike.

I wasn't inferring that BOBO's friend didn't exist or that he was lying....... its just so rare that the occurrence of the "spike/giant and hunter only referred to as I read it.... or so and so's friend or my friend are usually the case...

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