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Mar 25th, 2012
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Do ARs work??? #6958594
11/13/17 07:57 PM
11/13/17 07:57 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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We hunt some family property in Denton County. It is a mix of ag and creek bottoms and pretty awesome habitat if you ask me. Lots of pecans and oaks and winter wheat here shortly. Anyway we seem to have quite a few of what we are calling wonky bucks. Young bucks with a little beam and some nubs one side but a very messed up bunch of little forks on the other. Is this normal for year old deer? Here is why I ask about ARs, the legal bucks are being shot and these messed up little guys are living because of branched or in some cases barely branched antlers. We are trying to shoot legal management deer when we can but at least one younger 10 has been shot. Seems to me the ARs are working exactly the opposite as they should on our place. Seems to me we should be shooting and eating all of these wonky bucks and getting those out of the gene pool so the few nice typical 10s we have out there will live and breed the does. I think we are going to end up perpetuating the bad genes and eating the good ones partly because of the law. We don't really have a huge doe population so we are trying to leave them alone for a while until we get closer to carrying capacity for the property. Anyway thoughts as to how to manage this situation?

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958596
11/13/17 07:59 PM
11/13/17 07:59 PM
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Houston, TX
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Statistics would indicate the ARs are working.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958611
11/13/17 08:07 PM
11/13/17 08:07 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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I have read many post over the years here and on the fishing side from you. I respect your opinion, what would you suggest about our messed up gene? Are there some land owner permits we can get that will allow us to shoot those weird deer or do we have to let them go and see them year after year until they hopefully get big enough to make ARs?

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958619
11/13/17 08:14 PM
11/13/17 08:14 PM
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Winters
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It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958624
11/13/17 08:19 PM
11/13/17 08:19 PM
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Houston, TX
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Originally Posted By: BassBuster1
I have read many post over the years here and on the fishing side from you. I respect your opinion, what would you suggest about our messed up gene? Are there some land owner permits we can get that will allow us to shoot those weird deer or do we have to let them go and see them year after year until they hopefully get big enough to make ARs?


I do not know the answer to land owner permits to remove undesired genetics, as I have not hunted in an AR county. You may want to look up your local Game Warden or TPWD Technical Guidance Biologist for that answer. Good luck, I'd be frustrated too at having to let crummy genetics perpetuate on our place.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958633
11/13/17 08:25 PM
11/13/17 08:25 PM
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Dove Creek,Tx
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I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Sneaky] #6958639
11/13/17 08:29 PM
11/13/17 08:29 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


I do understand the intention, I am a fisherman first and to me it is the same as a legal length limit. I believe in that kind of regulation so we get away from the mind set of shooting the first thing that we see with horns. We are a pretty conservation minded and future looking group just seems we need some exceptions in order to grow the kind of animals we want on and around our place. I will look into the GW/Bioligist after season and see what we can do.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958642
11/13/17 08:32 PM
11/13/17 08:32 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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STH that is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Last year I had a guy with spikes about 12" long with eye guards. Spikes too close together to shoot him and I am sure he was breeding a doe or two.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958644
11/13/17 08:34 PM
11/13/17 08:34 PM
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Denton, Texas
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I don't know what you're talking about. There are no deer in Denton County. Please move along.


Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: SmallTownHunter] #6958658
11/13/17 08:50 PM
11/13/17 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: SmallTownHunter


I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.


I ask this every time one of these horrible narrow spread deer late night pictures is posted... have you ever seen/actually had the opportunity to shoot that deer? I never get a response, so I assume the answer is no...


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958674
11/13/17 09:03 PM
11/13/17 09:03 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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I have had the opportunity once last year and several times this year to kill some of our messed up bucks. Last chance was Saturday morning when one of our wonky bucks walked 45 yards from me upwind and never new I was there.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958700
11/13/17 09:21 PM
11/13/17 09:21 PM
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Posts: 884
Hill county
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From what I've seen YES. Talk to your deer processors in your area, they can give you the scoop on what it used to be like and what they are now getting in.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Sneaky] #6958708
11/13/17 09:26 PM
11/13/17 09:26 PM
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Hill county
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


Yes, see the story about this toad that came out of denton county this year?
https://www.facebook.com/stxha/photos/a....e=3&theater


Last edited by bossbowman; 11/13/17 09:26 PM.
Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: redchevy] #6958717
11/13/17 09:30 PM
11/13/17 09:30 PM
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Dove Creek,Tx
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: SmallTownHunter


I've had this buck on cam 3 years in a row with absolutely no growth. I just hope he hasn't got to spread his genes around. IMO he is the perfect example of why AR's work most of the time but not on every place. I am for AR's but I really wish I could cull him out of the herd.


I ask this every time one of these horrible narrow spread deer late night pictures is posted... have you ever seen/actually had the opportunity to shoot that deer? I never get a response, so I assume the answer is no...




You guessed wrong, I have already seen him 3 times this year in the daylight with a rifle sitting in the stand. Didn't think it would matter if it were a day or night pic, and I didn't know 7:30 in the morning was in the middle of the night....sheesh. At least you got a response this time.

Last edited by SmallTownHunter; 11/13/17 09:33 PM.
Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Legend LE-195] #6958727
11/13/17 09:39 PM
11/13/17 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: bossbowman
From what I've seen YES. Talk to your deer processors in your area, they can give you the scoop on what it used to be like and what they are now getting in.


Yes AR's are working. Talk to the local processor. My buddy took his in and the processor said all the bucks in this year had good mass and he hadn't seen any pencil deer yet. I'm happy to say there are finally some management minded people around my area now as well. We had 2 groups who shot the "wonky" bucks even if they didn't make AR. They got busted and moved on about 2 years ago. With them gone we see nicer bucks and the "wonky" first year bucks have multiple points instead of the fork horned deer we used to see. In the second year they show much improvement. Now our deer are getting old and a few "wonky" deer are starting to be impressive. It seems like we get a longer season and the kids have some quality management bucks to take. I'm patient, I see one I will take next year if he makes it and the good thing the neighbors are seeing other deer they would like to take.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958732
11/13/17 09:41 PM
11/13/17 09:41 PM
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Houston, TX
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That buck up top, and the wonky gene on BB1's place are the reason the AR regs need tweaking. TPWD could take ARs to the next level by allowing for the harvest of middle-aged to mature bucks that just ain't got it. The problem with that is $$$. TPWD simply doesn't have (or won't allocate) the funds necessary to establish such a program.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958735
11/13/17 09:47 PM
11/13/17 09:47 PM
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Texas
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I don't think $$$ is the problem at all. I think we struggle enough with the simple 13 inch rule either legal or not, we don't need anymore mess to complicate it. There just isn't a good non ambiguous way to write in the rule book what needs to happen.


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Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958804
11/13/17 10:37 PM
11/13/17 10:37 PM
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Huntsville, Texas
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I don't understand the concept of shooting the trophy bucks and not the culls. Tell any rancher that to improve his herd he has to kill his prize bull and let the little bulls do all the breeding. You might learn some new cuss words.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: Legend LE-195] #6958806
11/13/17 10:38 PM
11/13/17 10:38 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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Originally Posted By: bossbowman
Originally Posted By: Sneaky
It s an imperfect system, and thereís plenty of arguments against them, but I think itís pretty clear that they have been effective concerning their intended goal.


Yes, see the story about this toad that came out of denton county this year?
https://www.facebook.com/stxha/photos/a....e=3&theater



Too bad this guy wasn't as worried about following the rules, that is a magnificent animal! Not super far as the crow flys from where we are, 15 miles at most. I would love to see some of those genes make it over our way!

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: phathawg] #6958812
11/13/17 10:43 PM
11/13/17 10:43 PM
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Mountain Springs/Ray Roberts
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Originally Posted By: phathawg
I don't understand the concept of shooting the trophy bucks and not the culls. Tell any rancher that to improve his herd he has to kill his prize bull and let the little bulls do all the breeding. You might learn some new cuss words.


Precisely our issue in a nutshell! It is because the culls are protected by law on our place because of their wonky gene! frustrating!

BTW I have no idea where we got that wonky word from but it got used and it stuck.grin

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958825
11/13/17 10:52 PM
11/13/17 10:52 PM
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Killeen/Ft Hood, TX
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They are more positive then negative


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

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Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: fouzman] #6958826
11/13/17 10:52 PM
11/13/17 10:52 PM
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Murphy, TX Dickens county
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Originally Posted By: fouzman
That buck up top, and the wonky gene on BB1's place are the reason the AR regs need tweaking. TPWD could take ARs to the next level by allowing for the harvest of middle-aged to mature bucks that just ain't got it. The problem with that is $$$. TPWD simply doesn't have (or won't allocate) the funds necessary to establish such a program.


I don't understand why they don't add an amendment to the rule stating that you can email your pics to the county biologist for an exception. They could send you back a document you could print out and keep with you until disposal/processing. This is the way we manage culls on our lease and it works great. They could easily print the document with a pic of the buck you get approved to match up for the GW. This would not be that expensive or difficult. Would it be perfect, no but neither is the current format.

Last edited by Pitchfork Predator; 11/13/17 10:53 PM.

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Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6958877
11/13/17 11:21 PM
11/13/17 11:21 PM
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Texas, Mesquite
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I see less and less wide bucks and a whole lot more narrow bucks. My place could use a nothing bigger than 13' for a couple of years to thin down the ugly bucks.

Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6959006
11/14/17 12:41 AM
11/14/17 12:41 AM
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Killeen/Ft Hood, TX
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Id like to see any deer with protruding hard antlers be legal youth weekend and maybe the last 2 weeks of the season so kids could have a few more opportunities and also allow the land owner to cull some of the mature narrow deer on their place. Of coarse people would take advantage of that because its based on an honor system where the parents should let the kids do the shooting but many will use that rule just to cull deer illegally.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

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Re: Do ARs work??? [Re: BassBuster1] #6959012
11/14/17 12:46 AM
11/14/17 12:46 AM
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Harrison County, Longview TX
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soap Seeing more and more high and tight bucks where I hunt. Everything 13" up get shot.

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