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Mar 25th, 2012
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Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. #6958562
11/13/17 07:32 PM
11/13/17 07:32 PM
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Matpk Offline OP
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What should be Success Ratio in a fully Guided Duck/Goose hunt????
What is the norm if you don't See/kill any bird/ Kill 2-3 birds in
6-8 hunters group.
What are the responsibility of an ETHICAL AND HONEST out fitter under the above Situation..

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958581
11/13/17 07:43 PM
11/13/17 07:43 PM
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All I expect from a guide is to do whatever he can to put me on birds. I can tell if heís doing that or not, and it doesnít have much to do with the number of birds killed. They canít control every aspect of the hunt to make sure itís perfect. I paid for a hunt, not a limit. If heís a con artist taking me for a ride, Iíll probably figure it out and just avoid him in the future. Otherwise, Iíll give them the benefit of the doubt.


Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958585
11/13/17 07:47 PM
11/13/17 07:47 PM
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I think the expectation is that you will get a few birds each. However, there is no way to guarantee that. Some days everyone will limit, other days, not so much. I think the ethical and honest client understands that it is hunting, not target shooting.

Some outfitters may offer a discount to come back or something of the sort, if they think it's good for business, but I don't think they are under any obligation to at all.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958616
11/13/17 08:12 PM
11/13/17 08:12 PM
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If I'm gonna pay to shoot ducks I expect to have the opportunity at killing a limit. I'm not paying 200 bucks to drink coffee and sit in a blind. If I can't shoot straight then it's on me.

If a guide takes out a big group, 6 guys for example he better have a bunch of birds. I have seen/been a part of operations that put a group of hunters on a hole with no realistic chances of limiting the clients out.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958710
11/13/17 09:26 PM
11/13/17 09:26 PM
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Guides are scouting everyday. They know when and where the birds are. A good guide will let you know if there aren't many birds.
That being said just cause the hole was covered up yesterday don't mean it will be today. A good outfit/guide will do or try to do what ever it take to get you on the birds. Some days its just not meant to be. I have had them offer me a discounted rate to come back another time on days when the birds weren't there. But we/I have always managed to kill at least 2 or 3 birds.


Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958728
11/13/17 09:40 PM
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Some guides say there are ducks when they haven't scouted. Then they say "They were here yesterday"

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958776
11/13/17 10:17 PM
11/13/17 10:17 PM
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I have no expectations of success rate simply because it is guided. It's still hunting...

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958819
11/13/17 10:48 PM
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When duck hunting with a guide we have never not limited out. I have only been goose hunting with a guide once and we did not shoot anything however we did see lots of birds and ever had their feathers and foot prints all over the field we were hunting so i know he tried to put use on birds. He offered us a discount for next time we go with them. I would be disappointed if i did not atleast see some but it is hunting and they can't control everything. I never have any expectations that a hunt is going to be good just because it is a guided hunt.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6958989
11/14/17 12:32 AM
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Matpk Offline OP
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Thanks gentlemen for the input. I wills till urge The Senior THF members to give their
valuable views. yes one clarification, by SUCCESS RATIO I meant how many hunt out of 10 hunts, giving benefit
of all odds to Outfitter.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6959305
11/14/17 03:44 AM
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Out of ten hunts? I better kill a lot of birds on most of those hunts.


Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Sneaky] #6959790
11/14/17 04:06 PM
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Thanks Sneaky. But if the situation of these hunts is like this
than how would you rate the outfitter'
, First Teal hunt 7 hunters, saw 5-6 birds Score 1 Teal.
Second teal hunt 6 hunters No shot fired Dog was running
all around '''' 0 teal

First big duck hunt 6 hunters wading in timber Score 11or 12 ducks
first geese hunt 7 hunters Dog rung all the 2 geese shot out of 6 or so which
only passed in the range
PS.The guide was paid in full to book these Hunt in May.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6959947
11/14/17 05:39 PM
11/14/17 05:39 PM
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Ok y'all know I guide. I've had outstanding hunts and some not so outstanding hunts. I always guarantee birds to hunt. I try to match my spots with birds to hunters. I always want at least 15 birds on tank to one Hunter. I do not figure kids into this ratio. If I have less than this I let guys know. When it's good I may 40 birds to one Hunter. My goal as a guide is to provide the best opportunity to have a great hunt. I always want limits but it's unrealistic for me to say we will shoot limits every time. I had 5 guys want a free hunt last year because they shot 19 mallards. The hunt was great. Should have been easy limits. I have learned that you can't please everyone. I understand that money doesn't grow on trees but I hate that so many guys are hung up on numbers. It's funny how me and my buddies, who are all guides, can go out and enjoy the birds working and not shoot limits and still have a great time. Don't say it didn't cost me anything because I'm a guide. I pay on average 20000 a year for leases. All that to answer I think a good ratio of shooting your your limits out of 10 hunts would be 6. Not saying the other 4 should suck but wind is everything in duck hunting.


Blake (940) 389-0801
www.texasduckndove.com
Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6960264
11/14/17 09:10 PM
11/14/17 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Matpk
. aim
Thanks Sneaky. But if the situation of these hunts is like this
than how would you rate the outfitter'
, First Teal hunt 7 hunters, saw 5-6 birds Score 1 Teal.
Second teal hunt 6 hunters No shot fired Dog was running
all around '''' 0 teal

First big duck hunt 6 hunters wading in timber Score 11or 12 ducks
first geese hunt 7 hunters Dog rung all the 2 geese shot out of 6 or so which
only passed in the range
PS.The guide was paid in full to book these Hunt in May.


Hard to say without being there, but I doubt Iíd use that guide anymore.


Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6960453
11/14/17 11:18 PM
11/14/17 11:18 PM
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A lot of variables in waterfowl hunting. I am an experienced waterfowler and don't hunt with guides but here is my take:
Location is a big deal in waterfowling and changes frequently. If I saw no birds, I would not hunt with the guide again and tell anyone who asked about it why. As far as killing birds goes, when hunting snow geese without the aid of favorable weather it can be tough, even with a lot of high quality decoys, excellent calling, and good cover and concealment. They are wary by nature and can be difficult. Canada geese and specks should decoy well if the guide is on his game, and the hunters are patient, well hidden and don't give it away. Same with puddle ducks unless they have been heavily pressured in an area. If the guide can put you on the X you will have easier success than just running traffic which is what waterfowl hunters do a lot in areas with plentiful birds. I would think the times when there are no birds is what separates the ethical from the unethical guides. Is he willing to knowingly take your money when it is gonna suck.
What you do when you get the opportunity is a variable the guide can't help with.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6960479
11/14/17 11:37 PM
11/14/17 11:37 PM
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What my uncle failed to include was that the hunting club also did a dove hunt with zero success because of too many hunters being on the property we were placed on.

The club paid a very large sum prior to any migratory bird season and did not get adequate hunting outcome throughout those seasons. (The first mistake was paying in advance)

The guide/outfitter in this case is not a full time guide, he does this on the side, as of the dove hunt I went on with the club last year. I do not know if that is still the case.

I think that my uncle's hunting club was cheated. That is what he is asking y'all your opinions for, if y'all would agree to that or not. Hence bringing up ethics and honesty.

There is no guarantee of any limits in a wild game bird hunt, obviously. But to pay thousands of dollars in advance and not see a single full-limit hunt? That's not right.

This outfitter is on THF. Another outfitter on THF: we were going out of state to do a Conservation Season snow geese hunt. The night before the hunt, deposit paid and everything, he calls and tells me that the birds aren't there anymore because, as some people pointed out, climatic factors changed. He offered to a) refund our $600ish deposit or b) to let us come out anyway, our choice. We ultimately decided to cancel and we got our money back. The outfitter in question in the OP never brought any of that up, only the age-old line of, "last night there were a lot of birds on this pond" or "yesterday we had a x-man limit."

It doesn't matter who the outfitters in my last paragraph are. If they are named, then the abstracts of honesty and ethics cannot be determined by y'all, the good people of THF.

That's all I got

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: chital_shikari] #6960487
11/14/17 11:43 PM
11/14/17 11:43 PM
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Ok - I'd agree with you there that out of 10 guided hunts you should have had some hunts where you limited out. In all honesty I've probably limited out on over 80% of the guided hunts I've gen on (and have probably been on over 100). I would find a new outfitter as the people you are using do not appear to be very good.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6960499
11/14/17 11:50 PM
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You can't hunt migratory birds day after day in the same location. They are nomadic by nature and congregate in areas they are undisturbed, no matter how good the habitat is. That is why scouting is so important. Hard to say what happened in your instance but hunting a spot consecutive days or too often will blow the birds out.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Blake E.] #6960698
11/15/17 02:40 AM
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Thanks BlakeE.I am hunting Ducks since last 60+ years and overall my success ratio must be 8+ out of 10.
To me success is not limiting out. But to see some ducks and fire reasonable shot. Here we are talking about either not seeing a duck at all or shooting 2 teal among 7hunter group.

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6960728
11/15/17 03:10 AM
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Yeah you have every right to be upset. That's not right. If I didn't have ducks I would reschedule. As far as my 60 percent goes, you have to realize that I have a ton of inexperienced hunters. Plus I do 75 to 100 hunts a year counting my other guides. When I just hunt with my buddies we kill limits at least 80 percent of the time. I wasn't trying to defend your guide. When I reread it kind of has that feel. I was really trying to share some of my experiences and not concentrating on what you had going on. I think I should have been more clear. I'm with you. A client deserves better.


Blake (940) 389-0801
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Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6961612
11/15/17 08:02 PM
11/15/17 08:02 PM
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10+ years ago or so, a buddy and I hunted with a not so liked guide here on the THF. We called on short notice and met at a smaller hole since it was just the two of us. We killed the first and only pair of ducks that morning around first shooting light. The place was completely dead after that. The guide invited us back at no charge or offered a different type of hunt at a discount. Had we had more opportunity that morning, I wouldnít have expected the offer, but after seeing only 2 ducks, I thought the offer was extremely fair. We ended up going on a duck hunt the following year, and I know we didnít limit, but everyone had a good experience and all shot a fair amount of birds.
With that said, I expect opportunity when paying for a hunt. The killing is on me.


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Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: chital_shikari] #6961621
11/15/17 08:09 PM
11/15/17 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: chital_shikari
What my uncle failed to include was that the hunting club also did a dove hunt with zero success because of too many hunters being on the property we were placed on.

The club paid a very large sum prior to any migratory bird season and did not get adequate hunting outcome throughout those seasons. (The first mistake was paying in advance)

The guide/outfitter in this case is not a full time guide, he does this on the side, as of the dove hunt I went on with the club last year. I do not know if that is still the case.

I think that my uncle's hunting club was cheated. That is what he is asking y'all your opinions for, if y'all would agree to that or not. Hence bringing up ethics and honesty.

There is no guarantee of any limits in a wild game bird hunt, obviously. But to pay thousands of dollars in advance and not see a single full-limit hunt? That's not right.

This outfitter is on THF. Another outfitter on THF: we were going out of state to do a Conservation Season snow geese hunt. The night before the hunt, deposit paid and everything, he calls and tells me that the birds aren't there anymore because, as some people pointed out, climatic factors changed. He offered to a) refund our $600ish deposit or b) to let us come out anyway, our choice. We ultimately decided to cancel and we got our money back. The outfitter in question in the OP never brought any of that up, only the age-old line of, "last night there were a lot of birds on this pond" or "yesterday we had a x-man limit."

It doesn't matter who the outfitters in my last paragraph are. If they are named, then the abstracts of honesty and ethics cannot be determined by y'all, the good people of THF.

That's all I got


That's the root cause. Once they've spent the money already, their motivation for success diminishes a great deal.......sad but true.

Last edited by Pitchfork Predator; 11/15/17 08:10 PM.

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Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6961622
11/15/17 08:09 PM
11/15/17 08:09 PM
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If I'm on a guided duck hunt and they put more than 3 shooters in a group, I'm not happy. It can be a guide and 3 clients, but the guide should not be shooting. Other factors are spot, pressure, spread and the guide's ability to call.

Goose hunts can usually handle more clients in a spot.

Don't tell me you should have been here yesterday and don't over-hype the hunt. I can handle a slow day if I haven't been bull$hitted




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Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6961671
11/15/17 08:53 PM
11/15/17 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Matpk
. aim
Thanks Sneaky. But if the situation of these hunts is like this
than how would you rate the outfitter'
, First Teal hunt 7 hunters, saw 5-6 birds Score 1 Teal.
Second teal hunt 6 hunters No shot fired Dog was running
all around '''' 0 teal

First big duck hunt 6 hunters wading in timber Score 11or 12 ducks
first geese hunt 7 hunters Dog rung all the 2 geese shot out of 6 or so which
only passed in the range
PS.The guide was paid in full to book these Hunt in May.


Thatís hard one... non coastal teal hunts are a coin toss... serious migrators.
Dog running around= hell no, thatís not a real Duck Guide. No real guide would allow it.

Where you told upfront it was a mix party hunt? Or offered opportunity to pay extra for a private hunt?

Iíve been on several 6 person hunts with full limits, so that wouldnít bother me as long as I was told upfront it was a mix party. Most the guides I know will tell you upfront what it takes for a private hunt.




Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6963233
11/17/17 12:48 AM
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Thanks BOBO the Clown for your input. The irony is that we book all these hunt as club.
So all were private Hunts The guy was paid in May for all would be hunt by club.
The amount was enormous. close to 9k..

Re: Want input of all Duck/Goose Hunters. [Re: Matpk] #6964501
11/18/17 04:43 AM
11/18/17 04:43 AM
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Sherdil Offline
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This is good input. I am a member of this hunting club. Our members fully understand that "hunt" is not guaranteed every time. With that said, I think the responsibility lies with the guide to do due diligence and put the hunters in good spot. We have hunted with a few guides with a lot of success, Daniel K (Run and Gun) being one. The situation here is a bit different, we have had several unsuccessful hunts for a variety of reasons. I think, the responsibility really falls on the guides to ensure proper place is selected, bling is in good shape, dog is trained and correct amount of effort is expedited during the hunt. Other issues like weather etc. are not is guides control and hunters should realize this.

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