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Mar 25th, 2012
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Get new Rings or Start Shimming? #6958473
11/13/17 06:34 PM
11/13/17 06:34 PM
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Katy, TX
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AdanV Offline OP
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Hey yall,

I'm having trouble zeroing a friend's bolt action rifle.
He recently got a scope for it. The old scope had a scratch on the lenses.

I have a laser bore sight and have the windage correct.
However, the elevation is incorrect and we couldn't correct it.

At 50 yards with the elevation maxed out, the reticle has to be almost 2 feet above the bullseye for the round to hit near the bullseye.

I've read that this is result of the back end of the scope being too low and needs to be raised.
Either by shimming or getting new rings.

Is it better to shim or to get new rings?

What can he use as shims?
I saw some youtube video of a guy using cut coke cans as shims.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958478
11/13/17 06:36 PM
11/13/17 06:36 PM
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Are you sure that youíre turning the turret in the correct direction?


Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958492
11/13/17 06:42 PM
11/13/17 06:42 PM
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Royse City, TX
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I agree with Sneaky that you may be turning it in the wrong direction. If that's the case, believe me that you aren't the first person to ever have this happen. Had a guy with a $1500 rifle and $1000 scope in the bay next to me who couldn't figure it out. Had a nice .25" group going with my 223, and he dumped a 308 round about 1.5" above my group on my target, 3' away from his bullseye. I look over and sure enough there are a couple bullet holes about 16"-18" to the side of his, so I just assumed he dialed it the wrong direction.

If you really do have an issue with your scope being 2' away at 50 yards, I'd look at the rings and base to figure out what's going on. New rings are a likely fix, but don't rule out anything that might be going on with the base either.

Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958567
11/13/17 07:35 PM
11/13/17 07:35 PM
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Also, is he using a canted rail?


Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958570
11/13/17 07:37 PM
11/13/17 07:37 PM
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AdanV Offline OP
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I too thought I was turning the wrong way.

While looking down the scope and laser boresight on, I would see the reticle move as I adjusted the turrets.
Windage was piece of cake and perfect. Only took a few seconds to correct it.

Elevation was way too low even when turned high all the way.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: Sneaky] #6958583
11/13/17 07:44 PM
11/13/17 07:44 PM
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Katy, TX
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AdanV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Sneaky
Also, is he using a canted rail?


It was a 2-Piece rail, very similar to the following:
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/leupold-rifleman-remington-700-2-piece-base#repChildCatid=31927


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958597
11/13/17 08:00 PM
11/13/17 08:00 PM
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Lewisville, TX
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When looking through the bore and bore sighting, up is down and down is up. So, try dialing the other direction. You should be able to get on target. I don't use a laser bore sighter. Just pull the bolt, and with the rifle supported well (bipod, front sand bags, rear bags, etc), adjust the scope til the cross hairs line up to near center of the item/object you are looking at through the bore. I can bore sight a rifle in 1-2 rounds doing this method.



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Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: ChadTRG42] #6958641
11/13/17 08:30 PM
11/13/17 08:30 PM
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Katy, TX
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
When looking through the bore and bore sighting, up is down and down is up. So, try dialing the other direction. You should be able to get on target. I don't use a laser bore sighter. Just pull the bolt, and with the rifle supported well (bipod, front sand bags, rear bags, etc), adjust the scope til the cross hairs line up to near center of the item/object you are looking at through the bore. I can bore sight a rifle in 1-2 rounds doing this method.


Yup.
Did it both directions just to make sure.

Going up was correcting, just not enough as I maxed out.
Going down was making it worse.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958685
11/13/17 09:12 PM
11/13/17 09:12 PM
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Is there any way to swap the mounts? In the picture, they donít look like they can be swapped, but you said it was similar, and one looks higher than the other.


Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6958691
11/13/17 09:17 PM
11/13/17 09:17 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Is it a cheap scope? Running out of travel zeroing, is not a common thing.

Two options I see here.

1. Swap scopes.
2. Burris Signature Zee rings. They use a polymer shim between the ring and the scope. The rings come with a "0" MOA offset. You can order a kit that comes with 5, 10, and 20 MOA offset, if memory serves.

Be sure to clean all the packing oil off the rings, and torque to spec. I've seen scopes on heavy recoiling rifles slip inside those rings.



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Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: FiremanJG] #6958779
11/13/17 10:19 PM
11/13/17 10:19 PM
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Katy, TX
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Sneaky,
It's the same mount and rings.

Fireman,
It's a Redfield.


I just talked to him.
We're going to shim it to see if that corrects it.

If it works, I'll relay the info to him about getting those Burris rings.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959117
11/14/17 01:43 AM
11/14/17 01:43 AM
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Azle, TX
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The problem with shimming is undue stress being applied to the tube body which can effect tracking and damage a thin walled tube. I would never recommend shimming. I say this light heartedly as not offend anyone since it seems , but I have seen this 3xs. the scope is mounted incorrectly, with the windage knob a 12 oclock and the elevation knob at 9oclock.

Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: cxjcherokec] #6959288
11/14/17 03:27 AM
11/14/17 03:27 AM
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Wolfe City, TX
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^^Son of a gun, I forgot about that scenario!!!

O.P. from behind the rifle, you should have a knob at 12 o'clock, and one at 3 o'clock.



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Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959314
11/14/17 03:49 AM
11/14/17 03:49 AM
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I should have thought of that, too. Iíve done it before.


Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959333
11/14/17 03:55 AM
11/14/17 03:55 AM
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Agreed, definitely double check that the scope isn't mounted 90 degrees off.

Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959620
11/14/17 01:59 PM
11/14/17 01:59 PM
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Also the laser bore site itself also could be off. Shoot at 25 yards to make sure you are on paper and and then at 100 yards.



Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959713
11/14/17 03:01 PM
11/14/17 03:01 PM
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Katy, TX
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Scope is mounted in the correction orientation (Elevation turret at 12 O' Clock, Windage at 3 O'Clock; Viewing behind the rifle).

Yes, I've read about the negative effects of shimming and it's not recommended as a permanent solution.

GLC,
Unfortunately, even at 25 yards, the reticle is still too high and shot is still too low.


I'm going to meet up with him again today.
He's anxious about getting this ready as he's leaving to visit family for the Thanksgiving holidays.
He's got family with private hunting grounds. Lucky jerk.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959723
11/14/17 03:06 PM
11/14/17 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: AdanV
Scope is mounted in the correction orientation (Elevation turret at 12 O' Clock, Windage at 3 O'Clock; Viewing behind the rifle).

Yes, I've read about the negative effects of shimming and it's not recommended as a permanent solution.

GLC,
Unfortunately, even at 25 yards, the reticle is still too high and shot is still too low.


I'm going to meet up with him again today.


He's anxious about getting this ready as he's leaving to visit family for the Thanksgiving holidays.
He's got family with private hunting grounds. Lucky jerk.


Ok, I did not realize that it had already been actually shot. I thought it had only been laser bore sighted.



Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6959739
11/14/17 03:22 PM
11/14/17 03:22 PM
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What brand of rifle?
Did you install the bases or were they already on there?
Are the bases the same height?
Have you put the old scope back on it and shot it?

I'm with Sneaky, I think the bases are backwards. Other option is you have a bad scope. If the bases and rings are good, swap scopes and shoot it.


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Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6961352
11/15/17 05:10 PM
11/15/17 05:10 PM
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Katy, TX
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UPDATE:
I guess I should've asked my friend more questions in detail.
Apparently, when he replaced the scope, he took off the rings as well and didn't make note exactly where each one went.

I used a precision ruler and measured the height of the ring bottoms (the end which clamps onto the rail).
I measured from the very bottom (that sits on the rail), to the inside bottom (which the scope sits on).

1 of them measured about 3/16" higher, and it was the one that was in front.
So that was why the scope view was very high compared to the boresight laser.

We swapped the ring bottoms and installed the scope again.
Since it was dark, we took it to the backyard, where I can sight it at 40 yards max (it's the max distance in my backyard)

However, I was able to sight it in with ease.

He's already shot it this morning and told me everything is working fine and doing fine adjustments.


I appreciate yall's input.


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #6961401
11/15/17 05:40 PM
11/15/17 05:40 PM
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Katy, TX
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Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
What brand of rifle?
Did you install the bases or were they already on there?
Are the bases the same height?
Have you put the old scope back on it and shot it?

I'm with Sneaky, I think the bases are backwards. Other option is you have a bad scope. If the bases and rings are good, swap scopes and shoot it.


It was a Winchester.
Looked like a Model 70.

And yes, yall were right. The ring bases (bottoms) were backwards.

Thanks again


God Bless Texas
texas

Arsenal:
Remington 1917 - 30-06
Stoeger P350 - 12 Gauge
Diamond Edge SB-1 - Compound Bow
Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6961779
11/15/17 10:12 PM
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Good deal.

Itís usually the simpler things.


Re: Get new Rings or Start Shimming? [Re: AdanV] #6971007
11/24/17 05:05 AM
11/24/17 05:05 AM
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