Hoax, scam, or for real? What says the THF? Keep it kid friendly and out of the bunker...

I couldn�t say. I haven�t done the research.

However, my thinking is that people are trying to avoid something that is natural and supposed to happen. We may not like it, but that�s the way it works. Messing with things that naturally happen to our bodies seems like a bad idea to me. There�s plenty of natural ways to keep your testosterone from declining too rapidly. I would explore those options first.

Sneaky, that's what I keep telling my wife! By the way, our best friends are from Winters.

Not a hoax or scam at all. For some, it is genetics, for others they don't eat right, and there are those that have a disease or other issue that affects testosterone levels. Tried all the patches, gels, etc. Started on the bi-weekly injections and only regret I have is not doing it sooner. At 57 and 275 lbs I pay more attention to proteins and carbs, consume less sugar, eat less fast food. Try to hit the gym at least twice a week, sometimes 3 or 4 times depending on how I feel which is usually dictated by how much of, and quality of sleep.

It's real. Lots of Firemen are on therapy. The reason ours drops prematurely is due to lack of sleep, and constant interrupted sleep.

Set the jokes aside, we have heart attacks and strokes in our 30's, 40's, and 50's also due to terrible sleep patterns, that are involuntary.

^^^This. Poor nutrition, lack of sleep, and inactivity with sedentary lifestyles and of course genetics all contribute. Pharma is making big jack on this too but it's a natural part of aging.

Sounds like the life of a parent.

I tend to think its more people wanting to be something they aren't anymore and for many it serves the purpose of the little blue pill without admitting they need/want the little blue pill. I have no first hand, never done any of it never will.

I thought all firemen did all day was cook, lift weights, and wash trucks.

Some young guys commenting on this thread. Never say never. And that's all I have to say about that!

How in the world does Testosterone substitute for a blue pill? Testosterone has nothing to do with the ability to have an erection.

I just see the advertisements on tv all the time about "oh and she'll like it too" wink wink and "make you the man you used to be" bring back and increase "passion" lol and the list goes on, if its not an effect of it they sure are trying to advertise that it is.

Life of a parent for a child that never grows up. So you're saying there's no case for lack of sleep, low testosterone, stress and heart attacks among U.S. Firemen? Be sure and tell that to the 100 families that have to endure those deaths every year.

You thought wrong.

Nope, life of a parent was pretty much the only thing there towards your comment, the rest is just my general thoughts of it.

Those are for erectile dysfunction meds, not testosterone. Testosterone is a vital hormone that seriously aids in body repair and rebuild. Thus making it very important for recovery, and heart health. I think you stuck your foot in your mouth on this one.

TKM you might do some research and talk to your doc about increasing your injection frequency. The half-life of test cypionate is 3.5 days. By 7 days you're already at almost zero again. So you're T levels are seesawing. IMO you would be better of cutting your dose in half and taking it once a week rather bi-weekly if your doc doesn't want to double your dose frequency. Every week is pretty standard across the treatment field.

Testosterone absolutely has effects on erections and libido. Treating hypogonadism is no different than treating blood sugar in diabetics, high blood pressure, a rapid heart rate, or thyroid problems. It's a testable lab value. Arguing that it's a natural part of aging so it shouldn't be treated is like arguing that you shouldn't treat cancer because we're all going to get it eventually. When your parents get diagnosed with Atrial Fibrillation or have a stroke...eh...it's part of aging just let it happen.

Low T centers are definitely banking on it. But it's not any different then opening a cancer center because more and more of us are being diagnosed with cancer.

Maybe you were joking, but unless you want hungry scrawny fireman responding to pull your family from a burning house, I sure wouldn't be complaining that their job has some down time between calls!

Exbellicus, I have and been thinking about doing just that. I usually try to time the injections for a Thursday so I am good for the weekend and Thursday night through Sunday nights are when I hit the gym the most. My oldest son does his weekly and says that works best for him.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not a doctor by a long shot, but I do know I have seen the slew of selling points attached to testosterone therapy stuff. Or stuff on TV that is advertised as such, maybe a completely different thing, I don't know, but perhaps the process/treatment yal are talking about is something different than what limited knowledge has my mind made up to.

I have it and I have had if or the past few years. I was tired all the time, not in the best of moods, just didn't want to do much of anything. Went to the doctor and ran blood work and my testosterone was REALLY low.. went to urologist and got me on weekly shots that I could do at home and in a couple weeks started feeling so much better. Had energy, wasn't moody, and just felt better. I also got stronger in the weight room... (not that it mattered but was pretty cool)..

the only thing I didn't like was giving myself the shots so for a while I have been off of them and feel like crap again. they make other options and im gonna look into them. So low T is a real thing but it is pretty easy to fix

About the 3rd shot..........you go wow

weiner gets bigger and your nuts shrink.

Shoot up every 4th day.....7 days will make you angry.

Rocket fuel for Prostate cancer. I have to get checked soon and it will suck. Like nike said just do it.

Having healthy natural testosterone levels and healthy artificial testosterone levels is the same thing and studies have shown have no effect on prostate cancer or PSA screening bloodwork.

On top of that, we're all going to get prostate cancer eventually. Fortunately it's usually slow growing and frequently not treated in elderly men.

If you ask me the quality of life you get not being tired with low libido and extra bodyfat for the last 20 years of your life would be worth the risk anyway.

Anyone that is over 40 and not doing Test boosts are missing out on the best part of middle age. All of the wisdom of age and the drive of a teenager. Quicker injury recovery, better sleep, lower body fat, and a feeling of general wellness. Test and HGH ARE the "Fountain of Youth".

test boost? Replacement therapy?

I have started taking magnesium and zinc supplements and have noticed a difference in work outs and sleep. Much cheaper too.

57. previous throat cancer, thyroid damage from radiation treatment and my T levels are in the tank. Yea, I'm over weight, and have sleep apnea. Started using a CPAP about 1 1/2 years ago and started getting weekly T shots about a year ago. My energy level went up greatly. Hated the shots so recently went to daily rub in 50mg. DR laid out the risk/reward and I get tested regularly. Getting scheduled for my next colonoscopy too.

He didn't think at all he just stuck his foot all the way in his mouth!

JG are you a fireman? I had no idea.

My Doctor talked me out of it. I have all the symptoms you named and at 61 would love more energy. I still want to do a lot of stuff but my energy is in the tank. Who's a good doctor to check into this?

Bobcat1
You don't have to see a specialist, go to your general Dr., they will run labs and get your T number then offer your various options such as patches, gels, shots, or implants. I can't speak to the implants, I can to the patches and gels. To me they sucked, most certainly the patches, and my T numbers continued to decline. I told my DR I wanted to do the shots, she gave me the script and I wish I had went this route much earlier. I don't know how you feel about exercise, me being at a computer all day I have to do something to work out and go to the gym three times a week. Just my $0.02 here, you will see added benefits if you eat right. There may be some that knock this but it works for me and I am in no way endorsing the name on the product. I start my mornings with 6 to 8 oz of water in a blender, add a tablespoon of honey, 3/4 cup of uncooked oats, two scoops of ON PRO isolate and hydrolyzed protein and 5 to 7 scoops of Rich Piana's egg white crystals. Before this is was two sausage,egg, and cheese taquitos with a DR Pepper at Whataburger (I called them colon cleansers), no more of them now. During the day I make a couple shakes with Piana's Real Food Sweet Potato supplement. Then what my wife cooks for supper which is generally chicken or something healthy. She maintains a body weight of 98lbs to 100 lbs, has for the 20 years we've been together. Do I eat like this 100%, no. I do like my ribeyes and taters, some shots of Patron, etc. You don't have to eat like a nut, just be reasonable.

At 57 years old, I now weigh 265, down from 290, in about 40 to 45 minutes at the gym I have moved a combined weight of between 33,000lbs to 35,000 lbs (weight X reps) just on my upper body, chest, arms shoulders, back. I have a bad lower back, bad right knee and bad left ankle so I have to watch how heavy I lift. Being a short guy at 5'9", I have a 55" chest that continues to grow. Try to walk three miles or more when I get the chance. Sometimes this is every day, sometimes it is a couple times a week depending on my travel schedule. Fyi, I no longer count the weight, just do what I feel like and try to push it when I can. Key word here is "feel" like it which usually means a good night of sleep the night before. I found I enjoy the workouts more when I don't try to compete with my last workout, just go till I start to drop on numbers of reps or have to go to lower weight.

Before the T therapy it would take me several days to recover from one of these workouts that I generally do late at night. Being on the shots I am now ready to go the next night or the second night after. They help repair your body much faster, feel much better, overall energy is much better. Again, just my 2 cents, if you pair the T replacement with at least some plan for eating decent and add a little exercise you will see better results.

I hear there is a Dr in Celina all the Fireman use.

go to labcorp.com fill in code for the test when making an appointment.

https://www.labcorp.com/test-menu/search?page=1&letter=T

Probably cheaper than doing it with insurance and nobody but you and labcorp have the results.

Biote is a bio-identical hormone treatment for men and women. Most commonly they insert pellets into the fat layer under the skin. It works very well.. the wife has been on it for a year, no more fibromyalgia, no more hot flashes, tons of energy.. I did the first treatment in June and for guys it's only every 6 months. Alot more energy, generally feel better. BCBS won't cover it and it's not cheap. But it is worth every penny. You get labs done, find out the exact dosing needed and it's about a 10 minute procedure.

Be careful with supplements, you have no idea what is really in them..

The pellets are the best alternative to the shots IMO. Some people may need them every 2-3 months though, everyone is different. Especially nice for someone uncomfortable with giving themselves the weekly shot. Can't imagine driving to a doc and paying to get it done every week. They also have test shots that last 2-3 months (Aveed is the most common name)

Zinc and Magnesium is a good combo to boost T levels. Especially if you combine them with healthy diet changes and resistance training. High intensity strength training will do you best to boost T.

Sleep is huge. Alot of undiagnosed sleep apnea around these days. On top of already hectic schedules that cut sleep times. REM sleep is when your body does all its repairs, the less you get of it the sicker your body will be no matter how fit you look.

Clomid is an oral med that has been clinically proven to boost T when taken regularly in low dose form.

Injections are a pain, but prob the cheapest, quickest, and most effective way to boost your T. Implantable aren't as cheap, but work well. Topicals are garbage for the most part.

Gotta get your levels checked. It's nice if you can get both total and free T numbers. If your getting tested cuz you feel exhausted might as well have your thyroid, A1C, and fasting glucose levels checked as well.

Just a little info. Low T is real. T level drops are natural, and part of aging. So no matter your number if you feel fine, don't worry about it. But if you are feeling symptomatic, treat it. With what's available there is absolutely no reason to feel horrible related to a precipitous drop in your T level.

Asked doc about it, she said with high BP, no way in He11.

I turn 50 in a couple months and this thread is depressing me. I am also gonna need glasses this year.

[quote=pegasaurus]I turn 50 in a couple months and this thread is depressing me. I am also gonna need glasses this year.
[/quote

Oh hell no. I can't imagine being that old.

yeah one thing that hasn't been mentioned on this thread is the testosterone injection therapy comes with a 50% increase in sudden death via heart attack in men...

Got a source on that?

study showing increased heart attacks with testosterone therapy

So it breaks it down by age groups, the younger group showed a 36% increase while the over 65 showed over 100% increase.

Something to think about. There are plenty of studies that show decreased heart attack risk in people with treated low T...but that begs the question what really is Low T? By lab, low T has to be really low and most people being treated currently are not being treated base solely on labs. The reference range for testosterone in wide (somewhere around 40-600) so even though you aren't in the low level, you may have what dr calls low for you....basing things on symptoms rather than labs. In these patients, is there really low T or is it a lifestyle fix? More energy, more libido, ore lean muscle, less fat, etc, etc...lifestyle stuff that in reality doesn't mean low T, but because they can, dr treats as low T. You know why? because insurance pays for it.

This whole thing came about because drs. are being reimbursed less by insurance and they needed a way to make some money. This is also the reason most offices now offer some vitamins, genetic screening, etc...they make money off the stuff. You may ask how I know this. I am a doctor and I am tired of the sales pitches these people bring to me. It used to be "this is how this will help the patient". Now it is simply "do this x number of times per month and you can make this much money"

It is sad. It is true. I am sure there are some out there with true Low T, but most people on the juice are not truly low T.

I'm skeptical that they don't have any actual lab values to indicate there is an increased 'risk.' Old people have MIs. And like you said, the next study shows reduced 'risk.'

The experts can't even decide what part of an egg we are supposed to eat or if it's going to kill us all. They're not sure which is worse. High Cholesterol or the statins they prescribe for it.

As far as profit, the same could be said for treating a number of ailments. Chemo is a gold mine for doctors, but that doesn't mean it's a scam because some patients who are prescribed it lose their fight.

I definitely agree the normal range is a huge variation. So with a 'normal' range that big isn't the only option treating the symptom? You can take two patients with a a heart rate of 50. Both outside the normal range. One is dizzy, short of breath, pale, and diaphoretic. The other is perfectly fine and has always had a low heart rate. To say they both need or do not need treatment because they have the same value would be inaccurate.

Likewise, if a patient has a total T level of 300 presents with symptoms of fatigue, low libido, lack of motivation to work or exercise, then gets treated with T and feels better it's a win. The next guy in the waiting room might measure at 200 and feel fantastic

Never say never. I�m 53. Was listless, tired, no energy. I have an implant with small timed doses administered. Changed my life.

The TV/OTC stuff is junk.

Just to clarify, chemo and other high dollar drugs have what's called "pass through" coverage from insurance/medicare. Meaning the doctor gets reimbursed for only the cost of the meds as they cost the doc, so no money is made on chemo, even though the reimbursement looks really large. Just a cost of doing that business.

Wanted to clarify that in case you were wondering why there are not a zillion Cancer treatment facilities popping up at every corner, like there are with Low T centers...

You would know first hand better than me, but a quick Google search shows a lot of articles saying there is a huge profit.

As to heart attacks/heart disease, pick a study:

https://www.innovativemen.com/innovative...and-stroke-risk

Funny how we study medicine and make treatment decisions based on them when they have polar opposite results

A huge profit for the companies making the drugs for sure, but the doctors don't make any money on the drugs themselves. If you have evidence to support they do, then please show it. But my wife worked for an oncologist and they simply got pass thru coverage for the drugs and in many other fields of medicine there are meds and devices that get pass thru coverage. Very common. But there is no way to make extra money off these things, it is illegal and insurance fraud, and anyone that makes money off the drugs other than the manufacturer is illegal.

What studying of medicine do you do?

Most of the "scientific articles" out there are junk. You really need to sort through and find the well done studies and sort thru the garbage. Part of medical school and residency training involves figuring out which studies to trust and which ones are biased. NOt all biased studies are garbage, but if you set out to prove a point and set up the study to prove the point, this can be a bad thing. Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy in a way. So figuring out what to believe can be tough.

BTW, I am not trying to monopolize medical knowledge here. Just trying to offer something other than a layman's explanation and give some clout to back it up with...too often I see stuff on THF where someone spouts off about a topic they have no business giving advice. When it comes to medicine, there are a lot of opinions but much of it is old wives tales and heresay from TV, so I try to refute the silly stuff and present a scientific basis for what I say.

First of all, you are picking info from a Low T centers website, not likely the most reliable source...secondly, they study they highlight showed an absolute rate of incidents of 19.9% in the non-treated group while the treated group showed an absolute rate of incidents of 25.7%, that's a 25% increase in patients who underwent treatment!! Not very convincing. Yes, they said the study was flawed, but they are also talking about people who were below index levels of 300 where the lab normal was 350-1200. SO these are true low T, not the "relative" low T I have explained most patients are being treated at.


Listen, I am not trying to tell people to get off the juice, just to be aware the juice has the same risks it did when we all talked about it during football or lifting or whatever locker room you were in that the subject came up. Back then we talked about small balls and acne. The risk of heart attacks and strokes was there, we were just invincible kids and no one thought of dying. Now that we are older, and this stuff is becoming a mainstream thing in TX, its important to know there are risks. Are they small and nothing to worry about or are they significant enough to talk about? I think the latter. I think anyone who receives this therapy should have this discussion, but I know most won't even hear it and most probably don't even know what their testosterone level is...just that it is low for them because someone told them it is low.

Blood transfusion folks know exactly what their counts are. Coumadin patients know exactly what their numbers are. Low T patients most likely don't have a clue what their numbers are.

I was just pointing out that there are many studies on AAS, and not conducted by your basic GP. The risks of AAS should be well researched as should any medication placed into the body. Am I a believer in moderate AAS and GH. Absolutely. Are there risks? Of course. Life is full of risks. Do they empirically improve the QUALITY of life? From my first hand experience, absolutely.

We should be more concerned about the 50 year old that is 40 lbs overweight, doesn't eat healthy, smokes and lives a sedentary lifestyle than the 50 year old who uses (rather than abuses) AAS and GH. We are all going to die at some point. Even the arrogant MD's who fail to practice what they preach.

You'll be there before you know it buddy.......scary fast!

My doctor took blood and told me exactly what my numbers were. Took blood as treatment administered to monitor levels also.

I would think that should be "Testoterone Therapy 101" stuff.

You're correct....it should be 101....but I think a lot of those clinics are just selling the hype....just like botox.....

I will agree with the last few posts. Also anytime you are messing with something like an AAS, you need to realize that there is no "magical pill". You still have to combine it with the proper diet and exercise to see any real results. It's like put an aggressive cam in a stock engine. It's not going to do what it is suppose to at the level it can potentially perform.

I see it all as a numbers game with risk factors:

Poor Diet (increased risks)
Not exercising (increased risks)
Smoking (increased risks)
Stress (increased risks)
Obesity (increased risks)
T Therapy (increased risks)

If I eliminate poor diet, exercise, don't smoke, no stress and not obese, then the increased risks associated with T Therapy are actually a net reduction in associated life risks.

I think more low T patients know what their numbers are than most think. I have known mine for about the last twenty years, everyone I know that is on T replacement knows their numbers. I'll gladly take 15 more years of feeling like I do when I'm on it verses 20 more years of feeling like I do when I'm off it.

He forgot playing cards, dominoes and waxing the chief's ride.

First I thought this thread was about T-Posts, then I realized it's about Pop-Up's.

For some that may be accurate...unless they partake of the 'little blue or green ones'.

While all you boys are worried about your T's and Pop-Up's ya might just ask the doc to check your thyroid. Just saying! It has far more impact on your day to day well being than most people realize.

At my age I partake more of those that are burnt orange in color, Ibuprofen.

It's been my experience that them Pop-Up's cause more problems for an old boy than a bent T-Post.

Low T therapy is not really about ED (�pop ups�). You can have low T with or without those issues. Testosterone therapy may or may not help in that area even if you do have those issues.

ED and Low T are separate issues.

An underactive thyroid would be one of the many items a dr would check for when having labs done for someone describing the issues we have mentioned on this thread.

I understand but it seems the younger folk are more worried about the pop-ups. Here I am trying to have fun with a thread and your wanting to get all serious.

I would hope so but my thyroid med's run about 100 dollars for a years worth and I have one visit a year (Total removal of the thyroid several years ago), what's T therapy run and how many visits are required? I'm not saying all DR's will take advantage of symptoms to make a little more money but some damn sure will. Had a little personal experience in that area.

I would hope so but my thyroid med's run about 100 dollars for a years worth and I have one visit a year (Total removal of the thyroid several years ago), what's T therapy run and how many visits are required? I'm not saying all DR's will take advantage of symptoms to make a little more money but some damn sure will. Had a little personal experience in that area. [/quot


I go twice a year for labs, a LP, a CMP, a TSH, a CBC, Testosterone, and general wellness check. Been on thyroid meds for 19 years, TRT for 17 years. I have a lot of experience in that area. When you start the TRT injections a dr will want to run your labs in 6 to 8 weeks, maybe again if something appears abnormal, now it is once every 6 months. I have everything done in one visit. Cost of TRT is irrelevant here if need, mine runs $160 and change per year plus cost of syringes/needles (i inject myself) Given the results/changes in my life style it would bother me one bit to pay that every month. Over the last 20 years and 40 visits i have a graph of 44 areas that show progress, decline, normal, etc. All of my results are about as close to normal as they can get. Once in a while my bad cholesterol will be just outside of where it should be and i can always attribute that to what i ate, maybe due to traveling, holidays, etc. I understand some dr's may try to take advantage of a situation, however, research, knowledge, understanding things on your end and they will only do it if you let them. For the record, my Dr didn't suggest TRT injections, i ask for them after seeing no results in all the other junk out there.

I can croak tomorrow, who knows when your time is up.

I am only 62 and have a long way to go before I have to worry about that

Mentioned before but most people are deficient in zinc.

ZMA is a product I take and can def. recommend.

Noticable difference in how I feel when I�m taking it vs. when I�m not.

I took about 2 1/2 years off from the gym and most other physical excercise when I got married now with kids. Lack of time, laziness, etc.

Felt like crap for the last 2 years. Crappy moods, tired, lazy, staring to get a spare tire...lots of low T symptoms. Was thinking about going in for treatments ( neighbor is a tech at the T clinic). Got back to the gym, started the ZMA again and 3 weeks in feel like a million bucks....lost 6 lbs of fat and have my drive back


One big thing I noticed was my craving for sweets. Get like I was turning into a damn woman I would murder a box of brownies, donuts or cookies.

Cut out all bull crap food now I don�t even look twice at sweets

I'm going to try ZMA for sure. Any recommended brand?

I am currently using nugenix brand ZMA

Read the ingredients and make sure it does NOT have any calcium in it.

I only use nugenix now because it�s easy to come by and it�s a clean mix

Thanks, looks like its at Walgreens. I'm trying it out.

I'm 71 my T has always been high (averaged 540 between two tests)after T pellets it went way back up along with my energy levels which is what I was looking for and BTW T does nothing for sex life that's what blue diamonds are for......

T levels absolutely affect your sex life. Mainly in the form of desire

Not trying to upset you but a 71 year old man with a T level of 540 doesn't need testosterone therapy. I also don't recommend pellets. You can't adjust them once they are placed. Injections are much safer for adjusting to the right dose. If you don't need the T don't do it. It feeds cancer (ask me how I know). Notice I said feeds not causes.

The doctor that administered them said I was fine as long as it wasn't over 600 at first testing.Yes it's fertilizer for cancer. They keep a close eye on my PSA levels.

What makes you say this? Sugar feeds cancer...

The link between testosterone and prostate cancer is a known fact. Sugar also feeds cancer. That's why they step up or should increase the frequency of blood tests while you are doing TRT. I did TRT for several years with no issues. I had my PSA monitored (along with other hormone related levels) every 3 months. I got off the regimen for about 18 months. When I resumed my PSA was 3.8. The first blood test was done 30 days after the first injection and my PSA went to 7.0. An MRI showed cancerous lesions and a biopsy confirmed. In a way I was lucky that the TRT brought the cancer to light so it could be treated. I finished radiation in February. My urologist, oncologist and I have discussed the testosterone/cancer relationship many times. I trust what I've read and heard from both of them. It's over prescribed in my opinion.

http://jeffreydachmd.com/psa-and-testosterone-part-two/

Several studies have showed that's a myth.

He uses the term causative in his first sentence. Notice my post says feeds NOT causes. Everybody has an opinion. I'm not going to debate you. After 40 radiation treatments I'm not interested a rehash.

As you know, cancer is a cell. All cells use sugar as energy to live and grow. No cells magically break down testosterone into a completely different element (sugar) and grow. Cancer physically cannot use testosterone to grow. It's irresponsible to get on a forum and tell people testosterone feeds cancer even if it is just your opinion. It's physically impossible for your body to accomplish.

I'll be sure to let my doctors know that you disagree with them. After all, they only have 120 years of collective experience treating prostate cancer. Since none of them will refill my cypionate prescription, would you mind doing it for me? Thanks.

Well my doctor disagrees with your doctor. Should we have them fight? I'd love to see a study showing that cancer consumes testosterone for energy and growth.

I have a blood disorder that's genetic (thallysemia anemia) and my parents were equally split between high and low blood sugar.... I have fought weight and activity levels from high to low for years...(I have weighed 190 and 300 as an adult, twice each, after not being able to gain weight as a college athlete).... I have finally found a Dr (endocrinologist) that believes in traditional meds and hormone replacement therapies combined...

Between low iron, low Vit D, A1H problems, and slightly low T, they came up with a mixture of Thyroid and other supplements, and pellets for both T and other stuff, and they monitor my blood religously as I am one of the first Thallysemia patients with this treatment, and I'll take how I feel now over the past 8 days a week.

Find a real doctor, not just a snake oil salesman.

Best damn thread ever on the THF.

I believe that belongs to Indian corn and black panthers

I can't believe its still going......

I had the pellets placed in my hips 3 days ago. They're a little tender yet. I'm looking forward to the energy boost and hopefully reversing muscle loss incurred by diabetes and lifestyle.

What has been the effect since it's been a few months?

When the t level drops I'll do it again. The upside has been incredible. The wife and I just did a 30 mile bike ride through the hills of Arkansas yesterday. 6 months ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it.

Downside is the implant sites keep getting infected and extending. It's a pain,

I exercise daily. Lift several times per week. Swim several times. And walk daily. I can tell my stamina has increased and I'm gradually regaining strength.

The doc has taken me off almost all of my meds. Of course, my doc and cardiolist are against it.

It's made me a believer.

Just curious, did they say why specifically? If he took you off all of your meds is he not happy with the results?

How old are you?

Doc H, my cardiologist pationatly objected stating the risk was too high. My gp echoed the same sentiment. Same with the hic diet I did.

I'm almost 56 and old enough to take responsibility for digging myself out of the hole I dug.

Diet remains a daily struggle but the t replacement seems to help the recovery time with extra exercise. It takes it all for my body to tepid. Hardest thing I've ever done.

Gotcha...good to know. Everything has risks and benefits and sometimes quality of life is more important than the risk of shortening your quantity of life. Best of luck!

So you haven�t been to a clinic that specializes in it? So you are assuming they don�t run blood 4x a year. And Go over t-levels, free T levels, esteogn levels, and full blood work up including CBC, protein, PSA�s etc...

You are preaching about one thing and making complete assumptions about others...

Testosterone has been linked to prostate cancer in some form, thus why the real doctors and specialize clinics monitor PSA�s and do urination surveys

Just about any study that says 'linked' is another term for 'we can't actually prove this does what we are trying to prove but I can work the numbers into a shock headline.' They can't even decide if eggs are a miracle food or the ultimate destroyer of hearts. You also have to look at the study results. You'll find that most of them are underfunded and end up testing 30-100 males in some remote region of Sweden. All that being said, most of the latest studies say that there is no correlation between T injections and PSA levels despite what your stuck-in-his-ways 65 year-old family practice doctor told you.

Yes, if you're taking T you should monitor your PSA. That's because everyone should monitor their PSA. But basic logic tells you that replacing a hormone your body already is supposed to make with the same exact hormone artificially isn't going to cause cancer.

But besides all of that, even if you believe taking T might increase your risk of prostate cancer, you should weight the risk benefit. Is being an obese, tired, no-muscle blob better for your health than some remote chance of an increased PSA level that you're going to monitor anyways? Is it worth feeling like dog sh!t for the last 30 years of your life in the hopes it might stop you from some remote chance of getting prostate cancer? If so you should also stop eating meat, not go anywhere near car exhaust, and get away from the computer screen.

On top of all that, the 15-year survival rate for prostate cancer is 96%.

I�m just going by what the �LOW T clinic� does and why. Who knows, it could be an active study to disprove the correlation, but when asked that�s the official reasoning

Yeah it is because there is not enough evidence to not check it when they are already drawing your blood. In the doctor's defense, it's really challenging to sift through these studies. Ill give you an example.

Here are two studies
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3016428/
"Conclusion
In our study's results, serum testosterone at the time of diagnosis was unrelated to PSA elevation, prostate cancer risk, and aggressiveness."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5436005/
"Conclusion
Only after adjusted multivariate analysis, our results indicated that testosterone was associated with PSA levels in middle-aged healthy men."

As a MD you have two published studies here indicating different results. How do you advise your patients? It's impossible even if you're trying to be a good doc and trying to stay up with all the latest continuing education. There is just too much bias, bribes, and money to be made in the medical field to many honest studies done.

I have zero desire to take on either side of this argument. We are full grown men and old enough to know our decisions have consequences and we own them. A year ago, I couldn't even think of riding a bike uphill with my grandkids. This weekend, they crashed trying to keep up with pa paw.

Excellibus took the words out of my mouth. I can't express the joy, exuberance, and new found hope this program has assisted in producing. None of us want to die but short of the second coming if Christ, none of us are gonna make it out alive. For me, I don't want to be here one day longer than what God desires and I'm grateful for the opportunity to spend an active week with my kids

can you share your age,please?

My doctor recently retired and was in practice the last few years just to pass time, he wasn't money hungry.

He ran my T count, said it was a tad bit low. Told me to take some type of vitamin, I forgot now what it was, he said take it for a few months and re test. Of course I never went back.

He said some people with low or high count feel tired a lot, it more dependent on the person.

For me if I want to have more energy, I exercise daily.

It's interesting to read how it has helped some, and others no result.

yea, they also change smoke detectors for us old farts

JK dont twist out firefolks

Ill be 33 in 2 months.

Get back to us when you're over 50....Jes my

I can tell you there is a definable difference between 30, 40, and 50+....your time is coming....mark my words....I was a cockstrong SOB outworking 20 year olds in the oil field when I was in my 40's....after 50 all that changed dramatically......

Im not saying im the tuff guy. I work my but off from time to time and ive never shied away from it. I can tell a difference in 20 and 30 no doubt. I just think it is what it is, part of getting older not a need for a medical boost. Ive been known to be an old stick in the mud from time to time. Neither of my grandfathers did it my dad isn't my FIL isn't and none of my uncles that I know of are doing it either. Unless I cant trudge on without it I don't think it will be a consideration. I do know a few guys I went to college with that were on it before they graduated, maybe my bias comes from them.

Amen, 50 hit me like a ton of bricks. Never say never until you wake one day and you can't lift your wife after her knee surgery. Wait until you have to call a nurse to do what you feel is your responsibility. It's more than pride and vanity for me.

Low T is real and happens at any age. I'm almost 60 and have been using the gel for a couple of years now. Testing showed my levels were almost zero. Took a year of testing and experimenting to find the right daily amount. Of course, my previous cancer treatment also killed my thyroid too, so was going through that also. I'm finally at a place where I feel somewhat "normal. " This was done through my primary physician and Not one of those "clinics." Yea, the DR advised on chance of prostate cancer risks.

Good informative post in my opinion. I think one feels different about physical condition and being able to do the things you have done in the past as we age, these thought are more prevalent. If it works for you the so be it

one thing you have to consider, is what is the "normal" part of getting older and how it relates generationally? Food quality and intake, alcohol intake, weight, environmental factors, levels of excercise etc. can have a tremendous effect on testosterone levels.

For instance, a modern 30 year old person today who has a 9-5 cubicle job who is 20 lbs overweight is more than likely going to have lower T levels than his dad or grandfather when they were 30, were of a healthy weight and much more active in their daily lives.


I personally believe that T levels in most cases can restored to age appropriate levels thru diet and exercise. Lifting weights on a regular basis and eating proper foods is probably the best thing anyone can do for themselves as far as investing in their lives. I am a few months shy of 34 and can tell you with 100% certainly I feel 100x's better when I've been in the gym lifting and eating properly vs. being a lazy arse and eating whatever I can get my hands on. The differences are obvious everywhere from the bedroom to the boardroom.


That being said, Low T in young to middle aged males is a common scenario and no shame in getting on a T booster to get your levels back to normal

Just a pup

Yeah, "never will" has Karma, or whatever you wanna call it, written all over it.

Also, T therapy is not a substitute for �the little blue pill �. The pill covers one issue Test. Therapy covers many

Used Recreationally, the little blue can be a fun Time though

I want to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. Its been very enlightening. Compared to some threads there really wasn't a lot of badmouthing(which I hate to see on here.) Maybe the heading of the thread lured a more mature audience. A few years ago I fairly suddenly started feeling most all the normal symptoms associated with low T. My doc has tested me yearly for a few years now and he says im on the "low end of normal". He hasn't recommended anything and I haven't asked. I guess he and I just figure its what happens when you start getting some age on you. Ive never seriously considered any treatment and I don't know that I will but this discussion has opened my eyes some and sparked my interest. Once again, thanks to all the level headed opinions.

Freerange, I agree. It is kind of weird that this was the place I got more information about T that I could trust.

I have gone from pellets, to injections, to hypoallergenic pellets. Now, I'm on the creme. It requires daily application. Some of the other older guys at the old school gym I'm at are using the creme. It is a heck of a lot cheaper than the pellets. I can't say how it works for me as I've only been on it a couple of weeks. However, if you are on the lower end of the scale,, heck if you're in the middle of the recommended scale, I'd suggest trying it. It was a game changer for me over the past year.

Just noticed this thread. Almost 54 years old. Recent blood test showed low T around 140. All my other numbers are great and heart good. Bit too fat. My doc prescribed me a couple of months of the injections. Shot up the first time last Saturday. I inject myself and use the appropriate safety procedures.

I�m on a 2 week program for now. Doc wants me back in a month and a half or so to check levels at the 2 week mid point between shots.

I�m happy the THF lets us discuss these important HEALTH issues without people trashing up the thread.

TH, I'm guessing you are on the T cipriate which has an 8 day half life. If that's the case, my doc did that to me and it put me on a roller coaster. If you stay with injections you may want to go with a greater frequency.

I assure you I am not to be considered an expert. I have very limited experience.