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Mar 25th, 2012
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Dogs first season #6918274
10/12/17 08:50 PM
10/12/17 08:50 PM
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yakinthebox Offline OP
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Some of you may remember (Probably not), but a couple years ago now I got my first hunting dog! Well, last year I didn't feel like he was really ready and felt that it may do more damage than good to take him out.

This year, he's ready! He isn't perfect and I don't expect that he'll ever be, but he's good enough for my needs.

Here he is! My big guy Chase! I'm proud of the progress he's made and he'll be able to go get a duck and bring it back! He's got a hell of a nose on him too. And his drive is awesome! Hope to update y'all with positive report once season gets going!



If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!
-Anonymous
Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6918468
10/12/17 11:23 PM
10/12/17 11:23 PM
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Good looking brown dog!

Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6918571
10/13/17 12:42 AM
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Good looking dog, good luck this season. I been training a new pup as well for this season. up

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6923572
10/17/17 03:49 PM
10/17/17 03:49 PM
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How's it going for you? For me it's been a VERY SLOW process. He's about 2.5 years old now and I'm just now confident enough to bring him. I'm concerned about gators.


If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!
-Anonymous
Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6924238
10/18/17 01:51 AM
10/18/17 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: yakinthebox
How's it going for you?

Its going great. November 2, she will be 14 months. We finished force fetch in August, since then we been doing pile work, wagon-wheel, pattern blinds, left/right backs...And a lot of marks.. Last few days she has been running 150 yard pattern blinds. We have not started left and right overs yet, I want to get her left/right backs down first, and running long strait pattern blinds.



Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6924784
10/18/17 04:34 PM
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That's awesome. I don't know if Chase will ever be good at all that. I just don't have the time or land/space to accomplish that type of training.


If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!
-Anonymous
Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6925162
10/18/17 10:32 PM
10/18/17 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: yakinthebox
That's awesome. I don't know if Chase will ever be good at all that. I just don't have the time or land/space to accomplish that type of training.

I train before and after work. My training sessions are about 10 minutes, 3 to 8 retrieves. I train at parks, schools, private company campuses, empty fields around my house for sale waiting for development. None of it is my property, you can find all kinds of places to train. That pic above is at the lake.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6926129
10/19/17 07:40 PM
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Good deal! We have an empty lot down the street but even there the furthest retrieve I could setup for him would be about 40-50yards. I wish I had more time. It is hard balancing the family and training with him. I do work with him daily and like I said, he will be able to retrieve this year but I just don't ever expect that he'll be taking on blinds or hand signals, etc.

Maybe I'll get him there. Who knows. I am not going to stop trying.


If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!
-Anonymous
Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6927538
10/21/17 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: yakinthebox
How's it going for you?

Its going great. November 2, she will be 14 months. We finished force fetch in August, since then we been doing pile work, wagon-wheel, pattern blinds, left/right backs...And a lot of marks.. Last few days she has been running 150 yard pattern blinds. We have not started left and right overs yet, I want to get her left/right backs down first, and running long strait pattern blinds.




I question this. Why do 150 yd pattern blinds if the pup doesn't know angles and overs?

Robby

Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6927596
10/21/17 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: yakinthebox
How's it going for you? For me it's been a VERY SLOW process. He's about 2.5 years old now and I'm just now confident enough to bring him. I'm concerned about gators.


If I had to wait until my pup was 2 1/2yrs. until I was confident enough to hunt him I'd have put a 22 in the back of his head at 6 months and found a new dog that was not retarded. Or was that a joke? I don't always get internet humor.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Birdhunter61] #6927693
10/21/17 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Birdhunter61

I question this. Why do 150 yd pattern blinds if the pup doesn't know angles and overs?

Robby

Well the short answer is that Evan Graham SmartFetch Force Fetching, Desk 2, section 9, recommends starting pattern blinds after pile work, see outline screenshot below, link below it..
[Linked Image]

SmartFetch -- Force Fetching for Retrievers DVD with Evan Graham

I'm not 100% following his material, I use Make Lardy material as well, and I also consult with pro trainers. To date with this pup, I have had 7 different private one-on-one training sessions with 2 different pros, where they watch me and my dog, and train me, and give me home work drills, tips, opinions.. This is my second retriever to train, I worked with a pro with my first one as well, train the trainer type program. I'll let the pros give their opinion on the value of starting pattern blinds after pile work, because I'm certainly not a subject matter expert on the building blocks of retriever training.

But here is a training session I recorded Oct 15th. This was her 4th time (session) running this blind. Each session on this pettern blind I stretch it out longer and longer. This session, I start at about 90 yards, run 2 retrieves, then back it up another 10 yards, run a 3rd retrieve with stop whistle and left back. Note with each retrieve, she runs a straighter line. Note on the stop whistle, she looks back over her right shoulder, she knows exactly where the pile is, and where she is going. Here we did 3 retrieves and we were done with this session, she is jumping more tho...


Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6927978
10/21/17 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Guy
Originally Posted by Birdhunter61

I question this. Why do 150 yd pattern blinds if the pup doesn't know angles and overs?

Robby

Well the short answer is that Evan Graham SmartFetch Force Fetching, Desk 2, section 9, recommends starting pattern blinds after pile work, see outline screenshot below, link below it..
[Linked Image]

SmartFetch -- Force Fetching for Retrievers DVD with Evan Graham

I'm not 100% following his material, I use Make Lardy material as well, and I also consult with pro trainers. To date with this pup, I have had 7 different private one-on-one training sessions with 2 different pros, where they watch me and my dog, and train me, and give me home work drills, tips, opinions.. This is my second retriever to train, I worked with a pro with my first one as well, train the trainer type program. I'll let the pros give their opinion on the value of starting pattern blinds after pile work, because I'm certainly not a subject matter expert on the building blocks of retriever training.

But here is a training session I recorded Oct 15th. This was her 4th time (session) running this blind. Each session on this pettern blind I stretch it out longer and longer. This session, I start at about 90 yards, run 2 retrieves, then back it up another 10 yards, run a 3rd retrieve with stop whistle and left back. Note with each retrieve, she runs a straighter line. Note on the stop whistle, she looks back over her right shoulder, she knows exactly where the pile is, and where she is going. Here we did 3 retrieves and we were done with this session, she is jumping more tho...



Im not questioning you doing pattern blinds, but the fact you're doing them before wagon wheel, where you teach angles and overs. I know Evan used to recommend wagon-wheel.

Robby

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Birdhunter61] #6928701
10/22/17 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Birdhunter61

Im not questioning you doing pattern blinds, but the fact you're doing them before wagon wheel, where you teach angles and overs. I know Evan used to recommend wagon-wheel.

You are confused on your facts. I been doing a lot of wagon wheel, I said that in my original post you responded to, I guess you messed that? And I think you are confusing wagon wheel with 3 handed (or some call baseball) and 8 handed casting drills. There is no casting with wagon wheel, you are just teaching your pup to line up, run strait lines to specific birds. I been doing baseball drils as well, but just on second base (ie left right backs to back pile).

This is wagon wheel, this me and my girl Molly who passed..This is a star wagon wheel, where your spokes are short and long, this is more challenging vs normal wagon wheel in that the long spoke pup has to run between to short ones, kinda like a bunch of mini-Ts.



This is 8 handed casting, Molly


Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6930878
10/24/17 02:57 AM
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No I'm not confused. I missed the fact that you did wagon wheel, but you are confused that it is only a "lining" drill. I personally don't do pattern blinds, but know plenty who do. I'm not trying to say whose methods are better, just that you were doing patterns with "no overs", and no angles. If that's the case, let me know how you transfer to "cold" blinds. If you can't handle to a known point, how can you handle to a unknown?

Robby

Re: Dogs first season [Re: yakinthebox] #6930891
10/24/17 03:08 AM
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Does Evan Graham not do T work??

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Birdhunter61] #6930923
10/24/17 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
No I'm not confused. I missed the fact that you did wagon wheel, but you are confused that it is only a "lining" drill. I personally don't do pattern blinds, but know plenty who do. I'm not trying to say whose methods are better, just that you were doing patterns with "no overs", and no angles. If that's the case, let me know how you transfer to "cold" blinds. If you can't handle to a known point, how can you handle to a unknown?

Robby

A pattern blind does not require handling, the dog knows where to go. There is little differences in a pattern blind and pile work.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: BradyBuck] #6930926
10/24/17 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Does Evan Graham not do T work??

Yes he does, see link, scroll down.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/rcp-smartwork-basic-dvd.html

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6930931
10/24/17 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Does Evan Graham not do T work??

Yes he does, see link, scroll down.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/rcp-smartwork-basic-dvd.html


Before patterns I presume? You get your overs in during T work and swim-by.

There are two different ways of running pattern blinds that Iím aware of.

The first is teaching each leg and then lining up to one, stopping and casting to another.

The second (and how Lardy teaches) is lining to one leg and using suction from marks to get casts in.

I use wagon wheel for lining and walking baseball to practice casting.

I also use a drill called ďThe Star DrillĒ I learned from Hillmann's material which is similar patterns but involves 6-10 shorter taught blinds marked clearly. You line up to one stop in route and cast to another. You can use the set up like wagon wheel as well which I do frequently to keep momentum up so you arenít stopping the dog too much.




Re: Dogs first season [Re: BradyBuck] #6930943
10/24/17 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Does Evan Graham not do T work??

Yes he does, see link, scroll down.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/rcp-smartwork-basic-dvd.html


Before patterns I presume?

Nope, he introduces pattern blinds right after FF, it is in his FF DVD, see my post above. He introduces pattern blinds after pile work, without the casting.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6930959
10/24/17 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Does Evan Graham not do T work??

Yes he does, see link, scroll down.

http://www.gundogsupply.com/rcp-smartwork-basic-dvd.html


Before patterns I presume?

Nope, he introduces pattern blinds right after FF, it is in his FF DVD, see my post above. He introduces pattern blinds after pile work, without the casting.


Interesting. Does he ever go back to patterns to either stop and cast to another leg of the patterns or add marks to create suction or to introduce concepts such as under the arc blinds?

I enjoy some real dog training discussions on here. Wish we had more of it.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: BradyBuck] #6930963
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Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6930967
10/24/17 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy


I see. I figured he had to.

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Guy] #6933912
10/26/17 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
No I'm not confused. I missed the fact that you did wagon wheel, but you are confused that it is only a "lining" drill. I personally don't do pattern blinds, but know plenty who do. I'm not trying to say whose methods are better, just that you were doing patterns with "no overs", and no angles. If that's the case, let me know how you transfer to "cold" blinds. If you can't handle to a known point, how can you handle to a unknown?

Robby

A pattern blind does not require handling, the dog knows where to go. There is little differences in a pattern blind and pile work.


If this is the case, then why do them? The pattern blinds Ecket taught were a 5 leg pattern in which the dog needed to be handled. Mike lardy and Andy Attar teach the same methods. I don't understand the reasoning behind doing any blind where you don't handle. What are you teaching the dog?
Robby

Re: Dogs first season [Re: Birdhunter61] #6934033
10/26/17 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
No I'm not confused. I missed the fact that you did wagon wheel, but you are confused that it is only a "lining" drill. I personally don't do pattern blinds, but know plenty who do. I'm not trying to say whose methods are better, just that you were doing patterns with "no overs", and no angles. If that's the case, let me know how you transfer to "cold" blinds. If you can't handle to a known point, how can you handle to a unknown?

Robby

A pattern blind does not require handling, the dog knows where to go. There is little differences in a pattern blind and pile work.


If this is the case, then why do them? The pattern blinds Ecket taught were a 5 leg pattern in which the dog needed to be handled. Mike lardy and Andy Attar teach the same methods. I don't understand the reasoning behind doing any blind where you don't handle. What are you teaching the dog?
Robby


What it sounds like is he introduces pattern blinds early as part of pile work and before T work without handling to encourage running long and straight. He then comes back in transition and does 5 legged patterns where I assume he handles to other legs on the pattern field or does like Lardy in TRT and uses marks to create suction and handle off old falls...

Robby, I saw where you stated you did not do pattern blinds. Do you do a lot of walk out blinds?

Re: Dogs first season [Re: BradyBuck] #6934115
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Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
Originally Posted By: Guy
Originally Posted By: Birdhunter61
No I'm not confused. I missed the fact that you did wagon wheel, but you are confused that it is only a "lining" drill. I personally don't do pattern blinds, but know plenty who do. I'm not trying to say whose methods are better, just that you were doing patterns with "no overs", and no angles. If that's the case, let me know how you transfer to "cold" blinds. If you can't handle to a known point, how can you handle to a unknown?

Robby

A pattern blind does not require handling, the dog knows where to go. There is little differences in a pattern blind and pile work.


If this is the case, then why do them? The pattern blinds Ecket taught were a 5 leg pattern in which the dog needed to be handled. Mike lardy and Andy Attar teach the same methods. I don't understand the reasoning behind doing any blind where you don't handle. What are you teaching the dog?
Robby


What it sounds like is he introduces pattern blinds early as part of pile work and before T work without handling to encourage running long and straight.

Yep, exactly. And he says to continue to run them while doing T work and throughout...

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