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Mar 25th, 2012
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It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber #6907274
10/03/17 03:43 PM
10/03/17 03:43 PM
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Every year, I take phone calls about "what caliber should I get?" questions. This year is no different. Often my answer is 308, or if you want something a little more sexy, a 7-08, 6.5 CM or similar (for Texas critters). Then the comment is, "I'm thinking about a ...(insert the latest big wiz bang magnum here)" Sure, these big rounds have more speed and more energy, but can you REALLY shoot them better than a general purpose round? Big magnums do not get shot as much as a more shootable round. They also kick more with more muzzle blast, which often times shooters flinch or pull shots more frequent. A more shootable round is often less expensive and will be shot and practiced with more frequently (hopefully). A misplaced shot on an animal with a big magnum is still a bad shot.

I have been hunting with a 300 Black Out for the last 4 seasons (about to be 5), and will keep using it this coming season. I'm pushing a 125 grain bullet at 2350 fps (16" suppressed bolt gun). I have taken countless game and critters with it. I can easily get a round on target out to 400 yards with it, no problem (I shot a perched crow on a branch at a lasered 252 yards last season). I think it was last year when one of the new guys in camp saw that I had taken several critters already and he asked to see what I was using. I showed him my little rifle and the little 300 blk out round with 125 grain bullet. You could see the surprised look on his face and some jokes ensued about how size matters. I have always thought it was about how you used it, not how big it was! Everything I have shot with this little round either dropped in it's tracks, or ran about 10-20 yards. Shot placement was right on target.

My point is this- Shooters/hunters need to plan for a rifle and caliber that they can shoot well, practice and get a good shot on target. Let the round do the rest, even dialing down the caliber some to gain a more shootable rifle. Modern day bullets work well, even for some of the smaller cartridges out there.



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907305
10/03/17 03:59 PM
10/03/17 03:59 PM
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Katy, Texas
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Very true!


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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907364
10/03/17 04:51 PM
10/03/17 04:51 PM
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Lubbock, TX
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A good bullet of decent weight put in the right spot will do the job pretty easily. These aren't Cape Buffalo. A .308, 7-08, 6/6.5 Creedmoor are more than sufficient.




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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907367
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You are right on.
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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907398
10/03/17 05:09 PM
10/03/17 05:09 PM
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We got Bill's rifle built, I made a tight shooting hand load, and got him behind it for lots and lots of rounds. It's a 7mm-08 A.I. still running in virgin brass, so just a 7mm-08. Once I shot those two cows with my 7 Rem Mag (which isn't unpleasant to shoot) he asked if his 7mm-08 would have done the job. I said, sure it would have, if you put the bullets in the same place, and I bet you could have now that you've shot it so much and shot it out to 1400 yards, on steel. The ONLY hitch MIGHT have been if the bullet out of the 7mm-08 hit a rib. Even then, I bet it would've been fine.

I've now had hundreds of customers out to the range for the day. More often than not, the guys that enjoy the day the most, are the ones shooting something in a short action. Yesterday my customer shot a 6.5 Creedmoor, with a brake. He, and it, shot so well, we ended the day wearing out the little 1 MOA targets 500 to 800 yards. And it was windy! I asked him, like I ask everyone, at the end of the day "how does 100 to 400 yards feel now?" And I got the same answer as always, "I feel very comfortable with those distances, now." I recommend to everyone, to shoot lots of rounds behind a short action, before graduating up to something long action.

The cartridge a guy can shoot the most precise is the one that will serve him best.



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907506
10/03/17 06:34 PM
10/03/17 06:34 PM
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Your basically shooting a 7.62x39 round.


About on par with a .30-30


Nothing spectacular about it either way.


Personally for deer hunting I like a bit stouter round as perfect shot placement isn't always available in real hunting situations

Hope for the best but plan for the worst



Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
I think the deer hunting shows and "Bro' Country" are going to be the downfall of this once-great nation.
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907541
10/03/17 06:55 PM
10/03/17 06:55 PM
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College Station, Texas
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Very Well Said.

Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907544
10/03/17 06:58 PM
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It's a rule based in the ages. Men have always been known to find a way to compensate their ego for their physical limitations.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: txtrophy85] #6907551
10/03/17 07:10 PM
10/03/17 07:10 PM
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Lewisville, TX
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Your basically shooting a 7.62x39 round.


About on par with a .30-30


Nothing spectacular about it either way.


Personally for deer hunting I like a bit stouter round as perfect shot placement isn't always available in real hunting situations

Hope for the best but plan for the worst


Yes, yes, and yes!



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907569
10/03/17 07:22 PM
10/03/17 07:22 PM
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I have all the usual suspects for WT in the safe but I almost exclusively use my grandmother's 6mm Rem. She was a very small woman, about 5'2" and had a gun custom fit for her, and even though I'm 6'3" 230 it is far and away my favorite gun to shoot. It's an old Mohawk 600 with a vintage Redfield wide angle scope and it will surely reach out and touch em.

1 vote for shot placement

Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907576
10/03/17 07:26 PM
10/03/17 07:26 PM
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Agree with all above, I am a big fan of the 30-06 and all my buddies are moving to 300 win mag and 300 RUM. In my Browning X-Bolt I can push a 165 grain bullet @ 3000 FPS, "180's are hitting 2880" and it is very comfortable to shoot and accurate. So they can have their mags I will stick to the 06. If I primarily hunted Whitetail I would opt for a .243 or 7mm-08. In my home state I need a little bigger pill for Elk and Oryx, or even Barbary Sheep at 500 yards which is often the only shot I got.


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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907585
10/03/17 07:38 PM
10/03/17 07:38 PM
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many, many moons ago i told a friend of my i was going elk hunting. He as me what rifle i was taking 308, he said it was only a 150 yard rifle and i needed to take his 340 weatherby mag. never having shot one i agreed to go to the range with him, 2 shots and i said NOT FOR ME i am only hunting elk. problem was he couldn't shoot it either. that was the most punishing rifle i ever shot, i can shoot the 308,3006 444, don't think i could have hit and elk with the 340


when the going gets really tough, I sit down and rest
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907596
10/03/17 07:48 PM
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The majority of hunters I see are over-scoped and over-gunned. A 7-08 with any good bullet like a partition or accubond will kill any elk walking graveyard dead. A fella over on 24HCF, BMD, took his daughter to Africa and she has whacked numerous plains game with her 7-08 and 140 TTSX bullets.

I've been a diehard 7mag shooter for most of my 45 years chasing big game. The more I shoot the 7-08 the more I like it, and it's performance on big game.

Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: Jgraider] #6907651
10/03/17 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
A fella over on 24HCF, BMD, took his daughter to Africa and she has whacked numerous plains game with her 7-08 and 140 TTSX bullets.


Correct. I loaded his ammo for his daughter for that hunt. He's on here, also. She did good!



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907664
10/03/17 08:39 PM
10/03/17 08:39 PM
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"If you ain't 7 Mag'in you ain't flying first class!" bolt


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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: Texan Til I Die] #6907735
10/03/17 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
"If you ain't 7 Mag'in you ain't flying first class!" bolt


That's good up I have always avoided any caliber that ends in "mag".


New Mexico: Not Really New, Not Really Mexico
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907745
10/03/17 09:31 PM
10/03/17 09:31 PM
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Also know what shot placement to take with your specific caliber at a specific distance. Have lost a few hogs at 250+ yards with shoulder/vitals shots using the 6.8 which loses a lot of velocity and lbs/in past 200 yds.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: SapperTitan] #6907751
10/03/17 09:33 PM
10/03/17 09:33 PM
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Wolfe City, TX
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Also know what shot placement to take with your specific caliber at a specific distance. Have lost a few hogs at 250+ yards with shoulder/vitals shots using the 6.8 which loses a lot of velocity and lbs/in past 200 yds.


Very true.



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: FiremanJG] #6907762
10/03/17 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Also know what shot placement to take with your specific caliber at a specific distance. Have lost a few hogs at 250+ yards with shoulder/vitals shots using the 6.8 which loses a lot of velocity and lbs/in past 200 yds.


Very true.
Just this weekend with my 6.8 and thermal I shot a hog at 350 yds as he was going up a hill behind the feeder which is about 225. I had to hold high for bullet drop and heard the loud thump but never found blood where I shot him initially so never even looked because I figured he would have ran a good distance. Never had an issue at 200 and in and have killed a few with head neck shots past 200.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

[Linked Image]
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907839
10/03/17 10:29 PM
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No need for any boomer in Texas for sure.
No absolute need for one in the lower 48, but IF (and only if) you can shoot a little larger rifle on an elk - use the larger one. If not, stay with what you are comfortable with.
For dangerous game (brown bear, the Big 5, etc.), either learn to shoot a larger caliber or don't hunt them.

Of course shot placement is paramount. If you can't place the shot, don't take the shot. That's a given. Always. Kinda basic. That means different parameters (caliber, distance, wind, nerves, gasping for breath) for each person/each situation. A bigger caliber can't make up for poor shooting - and can often make the problem worse.

And, of course, there are sensible minimums for each type of game hunted. Most can place a 17 HMR round pretty precisely, but it's not a good deer round.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: SapperTitan] #6907851
10/03/17 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Also know what shot placement to take with your specific caliber at a specific distance. Have lost a few hogs at 250+ yards with shoulder/vitals shots using the 6.8 which loses a lot of velocity and lbs/in past 200 yds.


Very true.
Just this weekend with my 6.8 and thermal I shot a hog at 350 yds as he was going up a hill behind the feeder which is about 225. I had to hold high for bullet drop and heard the loud thump but never found blood where I shot him initially so never even looked because I figured he would have ran a good distance. Never had an issue at 200 and in and have killed a few with head neck shots past 200.


I look at hogs as "special" for lack of a better term. They are a cross between a D-8 dozer and a cockroach. They're just plain tough, and reproduce like the roaches. Shots that would kill many other animals might not kill a hog.

I've yet to hit one, with one of the big rifles, all have been hit with short actions. But lately I've been carrying my 7 Rem Mag loaded with 180's. I'm looking forward to a hog to show, when I have that rifle with me. smile



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: FiremanJG] #6907854
10/03/17 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Also know what shot placement to take with your specific caliber at a specific distance. Have lost a few hogs at 250+ yards with shoulder/vitals shots using the 6.8 which loses a lot of velocity and lbs/in past 200 yds.


Very true.
Just this weekend with my 6.8 and thermal I shot a hog at 350 yds as he was going up a hill behind the feeder which is about 225. I had to hold high for bullet drop and heard the loud thump but never found blood where I shot him initially so never even looked because I figured he would have ran a good distance. Never had an issue at 200 and in and have killed a few with head neck shots past 200.


I look at hogs as "special" for lack of a better term. They are a cross between a D-8 dozer and a cockroach. They're just plain tough, and reproduce like the roaches. Shots that would kill many other animals might not kill a hog.

I've yet to hit one, with one of the big rifles, all have been hit with short actions. But lately I've been carrying my 7 Rem Mag loaded with 180's. I'm looking forward to a hog to show, when I have that rifle with me. smile
PitchforkPredator has had very good luck with the 308 shooting 178 gr AMAX at hogs at 200+.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

[Linked Image]
Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907886
10/03/17 11:04 PM
10/03/17 11:04 PM
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I do like my '3006', seems to have such a wide variety of weight bullets. Like the 270 also. Used both for northern WT and elk and mule deer.

Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: ChadTRG42] #6907895
10/03/17 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Just this weekend with my 6.8 and thermal I shot a hog at 350 yds as he was going up a hill behind the feeder which is about 225. I had to hold high for bullet drop and heard the loud thump but never found blood where I shot him initially so never even looked because I figured he would have ran a good distance. Never had an issue at 200 and in and have killed a few with head neck shots past 200.


I look at hogs as "special" for lack of a better term. They are a cross between a D-8 dozer and a cockroach. They're just plain tough, and reproduce like the roaches. Shots that would kill many other animals might not kill a hog.

I've yet to hit one, with one of the big rifles, all have been hit with short actions. But lately I've been carrying my 7 Rem Mag loaded with 180's. I'm looking forward to a hog to show, when I have that rifle with me. smile
PitchforkPredator has had very good luck with the 308 shooting 178 gr AMAX at hogs at 200+.


I've shot hogs at 700 yards with a 162 A-Max out of a 7mm-08. They stumbled, and got back up. Tough I say. If a guy wants to kill one at distance, then he surely needs the horse power to do it. In other words, the farther away they are, the larger the cartridge needs to be, and the stouter the bullet needs to be.



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Re: It's more about shot placement than a BIG caliber [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6907902
10/03/17 11:21 PM
10/03/17 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
No need for any boomer in Texas for sure.
No absolute need for one in the lower 48, but IF (and only if) you can shoot a little larger rifle on an elk - use the larger one. If not, stay with what you are comfortable with.
For dangerous game (brown bear, the Big 5, etc.), either learn to shoot a larger caliber or don't hunt them.

Of course shot placement is paramount. If you can't place the shot, don't take the shot. That's a given. Always. Kinda basic. That means different parameters (caliber, distance, wind, nerves, gasping for breath) for each person/each situation. A bigger caliber can't make up for poor shooting - and can often make the problem worse.

And, of course, there are sensible minimums for each type of game hunted. Most can place a 17 HMR round pretty precisely, but it's not a good deer round.

That pretty well sums it up.

I had taken some trimmings to Granzin's in New Braunfels to get some buck sticks made.
There was a guy brought in a nice size south Texas buck that was shot just about every place except a vital spot including through the guts. Had holes blowed through him the size of a tennis ball. One hind leg was almost shot off. Nasty looking.

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