texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,019
Posts9,719,441
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Benchsource question #6829565 07/21/17 02:53 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
I got the BenchSource annealer today, read instructions and saw many videos on you Tube and pretty much have an understanding on how to set it up properly and anneal. My question is the instructions says to deprime fired brass to make sure its not mixed with a live primer before annealing. I read on many articles that most shooters tumble the brass and polish them, then anneal and then size them afterwards and prep cases, etc. It's what I wanted to do, but do I have to de-prime fired primers or just do it after annealing to save time and less work?

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829574 07/21/17 03:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Benchsource question [Re: J.G.] #6829581 07/21/17 03:07 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


Thanks Fireman

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829609 07/21/17 03:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,389
BassCat'99 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,389
I decap all my brass before they get cleaned (SS tumble) and before they go near a die. how would this work, 1-decap, 2-clean, 3-anneal, 4-resize then 5-trim. what say you?


22 Creedmoor
Re: Benchsource question [Re: J.G.] #6829640 07/21/17 04:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,160
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,160
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


^^^^ This

I do number 2...and I own a decapping die.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829793 07/21/17 01:08 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
up

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829812 07/21/17 01:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 995
G
Gummi Bear Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
G
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 995
Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.


“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...”

Henry David Thoreau
Re: Benchsource question [Re: BassCat'99] #6829815 07/21/17 01:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: BassCat'99
I decap all my brass before they get cleaned (SS tumble) and before they go near a die. how would this work, 1-decap, 2-clean, 3-anneal, 4-resize then 5-trim. what say you?


Excellent process.

I just don't want to add the step of decapping first. I load thousands of rounds a year. Accurate ammo first, speed of production second.

Judd talked me into stopping the stainless tumble so often. A bit of carbon in the neck is a good thing. So I will:

1. Vibratory tumble.
2. Anneal
3. Partial FL size (.002" shoulder bump)
4. Primer pocket clean (brush in a drill press)
5. Trim
6. Prime
7. Load
8. Shoot smile

Notice I only smiled on number 8.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Benchsource question [Re: Gummi Bear] #6829819 07/21/17 01:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Originally Posted By: Gummi Bear
Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.


Do you have a regulator between tank and flame nozzle?

Are you using 1 pound cylinders or have you adapted to 20 pound cylinders?

I've adapted to 20 pound cylinders, which is much cheaper propane, and have installed a regulator for a more consistent flame, is why I ask.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Benchsource question [Re: J.G.] #6829913 07/21/17 03:04 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Gummi Bear
Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.




Do you have a regulator between tank and flame nozzle?

Are you using 1 pound cylinders or have you adapted to 20 pound cylinders?

I've adapted to 20 pound cylinders, which is much cheaper propane, and have installed a regulator for a more consistent flame, is why I ask.


I am using one pound Coleman cylinders atm, it does last a while. The rep from Benchsource says that a regulator from a 20 pound cylinder thru a Y and to torchheads are awesome for a consistent flame, but for a newbie, I'll start with one pound cylinders. clap

Yes, I am using 650 and 400 Tempilaq as advised by Benchsource. I'll upload a few pics of results from this morning, but remember I am still an annealing newbie. flehan

Last edited by TackDriver; 07/21/17 03:05 PM.
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829942 07/21/17 03:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Benchsource question [Re: RiverRider] #6829944 07/21/17 03:39 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


Lower half of the case, and 650 on upper half up to the neck / shoulder junction and some on inside of mouth. I am posting up some pics and hopefully you annealing experts can see if I am doing this annealing correctly. flehan

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829957 07/21/17 03:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,539
P
patriot07 Online Content
Extreme Tracker
Online Content
Extreme Tracker
P
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,539
Originally Posted By: TackDriver
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


Lower half of the case, and 650 on upper half up to the neck / shoulder junction and some on inside of mouth. I am posting up some pics and hopefully you annealing experts can see if I am doing this annealing correctly. flehan
That's one of the questions I have after reading through all of this - how do you know if it's annealing properly or not?

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829965 07/21/17 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
B
blackcoal Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
B
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,273
I annealed 236 rounds of .300 WM yesterday while watching a Bobcat with shears cut cedars. Used a 5" magnifying glass and leather glove to hold and rotate cases. Wanted to do some 22 hornet but cases were too short to hold. rofl

Texas summer... texas cowboy


The Greatest Enemy of knowledge is not ignorance,
it is the illusion of knowledge.--Stephen Hawking
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829967 07/21/17 04:04 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
I forgot to get the flame orientation pics and the "Tempilaq before" but I will try again later and get used to the annealing before trying out my shooting brass. I made sure the torchheads was parallel to the top of the plate and aimed at the midpoint of the shoulder area and pencil point flame is about half to 3/4 inches from the shoulder. At first it was a little further, but after adjusting on second batch of 3 cases, I put the flame a little closer.

These are new .270 Rem brass I found on top of a shelf that I don't use, a friend left them behind before he moved up north. I painted 650 Tempi on the neck / shoulder junction to halfway down the case and inside of case mouths, and 400 Tempi midway of case body to case head.

Order of cases are from left to right. The first and left case is at 3 seconds, then 3 and a half and then 4 seconds.


The bottom three is 3 , 4 and 5 seconds from left to right to see how far heat traveled down the case and to check the Tempilaq burn on the cases. The longer the burn, the more Tempilaq paint is burned off. Made minor flame adjustments at this point to put flame closer to the shoulders.


Final results without the Tempilaq, left case is at 3 seconds, then 4 seconds, and last two cases at 5 seconds. I noticed that the color of the necks of the last two cases which was annealed at 5 seconds has changed to a charcoal grey color, is that an indication of "too hot"? I assume 2nd case from the left , 4 seconds, is the correct dwell time / color?


All of my calibers are short necked unlike the .270 which I do not shoot, longer necks need to have the flame pointed a little higher on the shoulder to be able to anneal the longer necks, am I correct?

Advise please. Thanks

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832321 07/24/17 01:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 995
G
Gummi Bear Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
G
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 995
Put your Tempilaq on the inside of the case neck. Otherwise, the direct flame just burns off. Do put the lower indicator on the outside so you can be sure that you don't over heat the case.

As soon as it changes color, it's up to temperature. Don't wait for it to turn black, that's too late.



Here is an article that describes why pretty well:

http://www.65guys.com/cartridge-case-annealing-techniques-and-equipment/


“I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately...”

Henry David Thoreau
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832375 07/24/17 02:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
The problem there is that brass does not anneal quickly at 650 degrees. It needs to reach 725 to 750 degrees. It takes several minutes at 650 for brass to anneal.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Benchsource question [Re: RiverRider] #6832522 07/24/17 05:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832523 07/24/17 05:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
D
Dien Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
D
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
I used this video as a reference. I don't use the paint. Just watch for the color change.

Also, I try to deprime first but no always.

Bench Source video

Re: Benchsource question [Re: J.G.] #6832784 07/24/17 09:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
R
RiverRider Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,502
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao



I think that's actually just about right. When I use 475-degree Templiaq---a stripe of it painted around the case body about 1/4-inch below the shoulder junction, the case neck just barely begins to start glowing as the Tempilaq turns clear.

One telltale sign of overdoing it is when you begin to see yellow flame come off the case neck. That supposedly means you're beginning to burn zinc out of the alloy.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832822 07/24/17 10:21 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
T
TackDriver Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
T
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
I learned another thing, on my first test I had the pencil point flame too far from the test cases which dispersed the heat, so I did a little test this morning. Adjusted the pencil point flames from both torches that its barely licking the mid shoulder and cases looks a lot better but without the Tempilaq. Color around the necks / shoulders are bluish and no more than a quarter of an inch below the shoulders. Dwell time was around 3 seconds more or less. Next test I will do the Tempilaq inside the case mouths for a more accurate anneal. The inside of the case mouths will take longer to heat up than the outside. Just learning it. up

Thanks for the heads up guys.

Re: Benchsource question [Re: J.G.] #6834822 07/26/17 04:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 610
J
JTPinTX Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
J
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 610
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao


After a lot of playing around and experimenting, with tempilaq and without, and watching lots of videos on it, JG's system is what I have gone to. Turn off the lights in the shop, and when the faintest hint of red shows up, that's it. Maybe even back it down just a touch from that. Done.

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3