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Benchsource question #6829565 07/21/17 02:53 AM
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I got the BenchSource annealer today, read instructions and saw many videos on you Tube and pretty much have an understanding on how to set it up properly and anneal. My question is the instructions says to deprime fired brass to make sure its not mixed with a live primer before annealing. I read on many articles that most shooters tumble the brass and polish them, then anneal and then size them afterwards and prep cases, etc. It's what I wanted to do, but do I have to de-prime fired primers or just do it after annealing to save time and less work?

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829574 07/21/17 03:03 AM
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Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: FiremanJG] #6829581 07/21/17 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


Thanks Fireman

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829609 07/21/17 03:37 AM
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I decap all my brass before they get cleaned (SS tumble) and before they go near a die. how would this work, 1-decap, 2-clean, 3-anneal, 4-resize then 5-trim. what say you?


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: FiremanJG] #6829640 07/21/17 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two choices:

1.Buy a decapping die (all it does is punch put the primer)

2. Make damn sure you do not have live primers in your brass, and ignore the instructions.


^^^^ This

I do number 2...and I own a decapping die.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829793 07/21/17 01:08 PM
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Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829812 07/21/17 01:32 PM
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Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: BassCat'99] #6829815 07/21/17 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: BassCat'99
I decap all my brass before they get cleaned (SS tumble) and before they go near a die. how would this work, 1-decap, 2-clean, 3-anneal, 4-resize then 5-trim. what say you?


Excellent process.

I just don't want to add the step of decapping first. I load thousands of rounds a year. Accurate ammo first, speed of production second.

Judd talked me into stopping the stainless tumble so often. A bit of carbon in the neck is a good thing. So I will:

1. Vibratory tumble.
2. Anneal
3. Partial FL size (.002" shoulder bump)
4. Primer pocket clean (brush in a drill press)
5. Trim
6. Prime
7. Load
8. Shoot smile

Notice I only smiled on number 8.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: Gummi Bear] #6829819 07/21/17 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Gummi Bear
Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.


Do you have a regulator between tank and flame nozzle?

Are you using 1 pound cylinders or have you adapted to 20 pound cylinders?

I've adapted to 20 pound cylinders, which is much cheaper propane, and have installed a regulator for a more consistent flame, is why I ask.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: FiremanJG] #6829913 07/21/17 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Gummi Bear
Definitely decap, like the above posters mentioned.

I like to anneal after deprime, but before SS tumble. That way I have bright, shiny brass when I go to reload.

You need to get some Tempilaq, to make sure you are annealing each piece for the proper amount of time.

Also - if you anneal in the garage, your time will be different in summer, than in winter. (has to do with the pressure on the bottle, and temperature, the bottle will frost after a while) I use the Tempilaq before starting every batch.




Do you have a regulator between tank and flame nozzle?

Are you using 1 pound cylinders or have you adapted to 20 pound cylinders?

I've adapted to 20 pound cylinders, which is much cheaper propane, and have installed a regulator for a more consistent flame, is why I ask.


I am using one pound Coleman cylinders atm, it does last a while. The rep from Benchsource says that a regulator from a 20 pound cylinder thru a Y and to torchheads are awesome for a consistent flame, but for a newbie, I'll start with one pound cylinders. clap

Yes, I am using 650 and 400 Tempilaq as advised by Benchsource. I'll upload a few pics of results from this morning, but remember I am still an annealing newbie. flehan

Last edited by TackDriver; 07/21/17 03:05 PM.
Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829942 07/21/17 03:37 PM
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TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: RiverRider] #6829944 07/21/17 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: RiverRider
TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


Lower half of the case, and 650 on upper half up to the neck / shoulder junction and some on inside of mouth. I am posting up some pics and hopefully you annealing experts can see if I am doing this annealing correctly. flehan

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829957 07/21/17 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: TackDriver
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
TD, where on the case do you apply the 400-degree Tempilaq?


Lower half of the case, and 650 on upper half up to the neck / shoulder junction and some on inside of mouth. I am posting up some pics and hopefully you annealing experts can see if I am doing this annealing correctly. flehan
That's one of the questions I have after reading through all of this - how do you know if it's annealing properly or not?

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829965 07/21/17 04:00 PM
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I annealed 236 rounds of .300 WM yesterday while watching a Bobcat with shears cut cedars. Used a 5" magnifying glass and leather glove to hold and rotate cases. Wanted to do some 22 hornet but cases were too short to hold. rofl

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Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6829967 07/21/17 04:04 PM
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I forgot to get the flame orientation pics and the "Tempilaq before" but I will try again later and get used to the annealing before trying out my shooting brass. I made sure the torchheads was parallel to the top of the plate and aimed at the midpoint of the shoulder area and pencil point flame is about half to 3/4 inches from the shoulder. At first it was a little further, but after adjusting on second batch of 3 cases, I put the flame a little closer.

These are new .270 Rem brass I found on top of a shelf that I don't use, a friend left them behind before he moved up north. I painted 650 Tempi on the neck / shoulder junction to halfway down the case and inside of case mouths, and 400 Tempi midway of case body to case head.

Order of cases are from left to right. The first and left case is at 3 seconds, then 3 and a half and then 4 seconds.


The bottom three is 3 , 4 and 5 seconds from left to right to see how far heat traveled down the case and to check the Tempilaq burn on the cases. The longer the burn, the more Tempilaq paint is burned off. Made minor flame adjustments at this point to put flame closer to the shoulders.


Final results without the Tempilaq, left case is at 3 seconds, then 4 seconds, and last two cases at 5 seconds. I noticed that the color of the necks of the last two cases which was annealed at 5 seconds has changed to a charcoal grey color, is that an indication of "too hot"? I assume 2nd case from the left , 4 seconds, is the correct dwell time / color?


All of my calibers are short necked unlike the .270 which I do not shoot, longer necks need to have the flame pointed a little higher on the shoulder to be able to anneal the longer necks, am I correct?

Advise please. Thanks

Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832321 07/24/17 01:57 PM
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Put your Tempilaq on the inside of the case neck. Otherwise, the direct flame just burns off. Do put the lower indicator on the outside so you can be sure that you don't over heat the case.

As soon as it changes color, it's up to temperature. Don't wait for it to turn black, that's too late.



Here is an article that describes why pretty well:

http://www.65guys.com/cartridge-case-annealing-techniques-and-equipment/


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832375 07/24/17 02:52 PM
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The problem there is that brass does not anneal quickly at 650 degrees. It needs to reach 725 to 750 degrees. It takes several minutes at 650 for brass to anneal.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: RiverRider] #6832522 07/24/17 05:38 PM
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Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832523 07/24/17 05:38 PM
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I used this video as a reference. I don't use the paint. Just watch for the color change.

Also, I try to deprime first but no always.

Bench Source video

Re: Benchsource question [Re: FiremanJG] #6832784 07/24/17 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao



I think that's actually just about right. When I use 475-degree Templiaq---a stripe of it painted around the case body about 1/4-inch below the shoulder junction, the case neck just barely begins to start glowing as the Tempilaq turns clear.

One telltale sign of overdoing it is when you begin to see yellow flame come off the case neck. That supposedly means you're beginning to burn zinc out of the alloy.


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Re: Benchsource question [Re: TackDriver] #6832822 07/24/17 10:21 PM
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I learned another thing, on my first test I had the pencil point flame too far from the test cases which dispersed the heat, so I did a little test this morning. Adjusted the pencil point flames from both torches that its barely licking the mid shoulder and cases looks a lot better but without the Tempilaq. Color around the necks / shoulders are bluish and no more than a quarter of an inch below the shoulders. Dwell time was around 3 seconds more or less. Next test I will do the Tempilaq inside the case mouths for a more accurate anneal. The inside of the case mouths will take longer to heat up than the outside. Just learning it. up

Thanks for the heads up guys.

Re: Benchsource question [Re: FiremanJG] #6834822 07/26/17 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Two very smart men told me "turn the lights off, get it to almost glow, but don't glow the brass". That's all I've done.

roflmao


After a lot of playing around and experimenting, with tempilaq and without, and watching lots of videos on it, JG's system is what I have gone to. Turn off the lights in the shop, and when the faintest hint of red shows up, that's it. Maybe even back it down just a touch from that. Done.

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