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Mar 25th, 2012
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Hog doggers strike again #6777843
05/29/17 07:15 PM
05/29/17 07:15 PM
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webb1974 Offline OP
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I always said I wouldn't lump everyone in one group but as far as I'm concerned there are no good once left. I thought I was done with this problem.
History behind this is I had to refund a group of hunters because of hog doggers and the guy actually told me he would go anywhere his dogs did and didn't care that I had to refund money his dogs were worth more than that. Anyways that old news no problem for a couple years.
Fast forward until this morning when I was informed by a group that they can legally enter my property as long as they try to contact me first and that if I don't answer they can enter my property and if I do answer I can't deny them access.
Bad part is I was always one to allow it outside of deer season but I'm done with all of them.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777848
05/29/17 07:23 PM
05/29/17 07:23 PM
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cameron00 Offline
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If you had to refund money based on the dogs, you have demonstrable damages. Sue them.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777858
05/29/17 07:34 PM
05/29/17 07:34 PM
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cameron00 Offline
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And honestly. Until someone enforces the law on them, they'll keep doing it. You need to be ready to get the Sherriff's office out next time. Don't shoot the dogs, don't argue with them, corral the dogs and hold them until LE gets there. "I had to follow my dog" is absolutely not a free pass to trespass, but you have to take the next step, and don't be careless in doing so.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777862
05/29/17 07:36 PM
05/29/17 07:36 PM
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Over yonder.....
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Over yonder.....
These days most people simply don't respect others properly.... They feel they have every right to trample all over your rights....sad!


Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Milf does the trick.

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Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777880
05/29/17 08:03 PM
05/29/17 08:03 PM
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I have had my fill of them. I hate to "lump" too - but "lumping" is justified with the vast majority of hog doggers.

They pretty much live by the saying that they'd rather ask forgiveness than permission. Sounds like yours won't even do that.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: cameron00] #6777882
05/29/17 08:07 PM
05/29/17 08:07 PM
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webb1974 Offline OP
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Yep. I didn't even argue with him because he new he was right. Unfortunately I found out after he had already done it but the call was just a courteous call and he was gonna go anyways. I will prosecute to the fullest if caught

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777901
05/29/17 08:33 PM
05/29/17 08:33 PM
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I'm going to ask knowing the answer but what part of the state is this?

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777909
05/29/17 08:48 PM
05/29/17 08:48 PM
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webb1974 Offline OP
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Palo pinto county

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777934
05/29/17 09:17 PM
05/29/17 09:17 PM
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Mesquite, Tx
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Not sure I understand why he can enter your property (I'm assuming you own) without your permission. Help me understand how the guy can do this, and it not be considered trespassing.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777953
05/29/17 09:32 PM
05/29/17 09:32 PM
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He can't legally but "they" seem to think the law allows them to to retrieve their dogs. Some of the guys just don't care but some really think the law is on their side and they can enter the property. This has happened on property that I own and slso property that I lease the landowner of the property that I lease gave the guys my number and said to contact me. They were very respectful and apologetic and I helped them get their dogs. There's just way more of the bad guys.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777962
05/29/17 09:40 PM
05/29/17 09:40 PM
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Deep East Texas
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I've had experiences with that type unfortunately.

So I won't even start on Hog Doggers. NONE are welcome on my property anymore.

I know that ALL of them are not that way, but MOST of them (where I live) ARE!

Their mindset is absolutely crazy.

http://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/6470814/1


Last edited by flintknapper; 05/30/17 04:34 AM.

Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6777995
05/29/17 10:21 PM
05/29/17 10:21 PM
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East of Dallas
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I was sitting in a stand waiting for hogs one night, and had a hog dog come in under the feeder. No doubt what he was doing as he had a protective collar covering his neck. It was friendly and I got it by the collar. I saw some lights back in the woods, and hollered at the guys that I had their dog, but couldn't get them to come out. I finally let the dog go as I couldn't exactly blame it.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778127
05/30/17 01:08 AM
05/30/17 01:08 AM
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Lewisville/ Red River County
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Do hog doggers really think it is a defense to prosecution if they are getting their dogs? That's ridiculous. The trespass law is a pretty easy read.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778136
05/30/17 01:19 AM
05/30/17 01:19 AM
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Boy Boy, I had the same problem years back when I hunted in Mississippi.....done with those people and the state. Just no respect or ethics. Thank God for Texas.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778663
05/30/17 04:51 PM
05/30/17 04:51 PM
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Is there some law, or legal precedent that I've missed? An unwelcome dog running loose is a dead dog. I'm puzzled by the notion that this simple practice is suddenly invalid.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778713
05/30/17 05:55 PM
05/30/17 05:55 PM
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Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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The practice isn't suddenly invalid. It is illegal to shoot stray dogs without owner consent...

Quote:
Shooting “stray” Dogs and Cats (Penal Code 42.09 Animal Cruelty). Any person who shoots a non-livestock animal, which includes any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured, can be charged with a felony offense. Penal Code 42.092 of the State of Texas law states that a person must have the owner’s consent to kill the animal (exceptions to prosecution are provided in Section 42.092(e)(1)). It is clear that a “stray” dog or cat either has no owner or that the person who shoots the animal did not get the owner’s consent.


Just to hammer home the point, this can be a FELONY offense.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 05/30/17 05:56 PM.

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Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778724
05/30/17 06:04 PM
05/30/17 06:04 PM
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I don't like dog killing threads.


Cast



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Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: webb1974] #6778752
05/30/17 06:32 PM
05/30/17 06:32 PM
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Central Texas
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Regulations vary from area to area, and county to county, but where I hunt the county has posted signs that read "Fine for Dogs Running Loose $500".

Not that I plan to shoot anyone's dogs, but I'll admit I've been tempted on occasion.

Haven't had problems in past couple of years, but most of the neighboring properties now have "No Trespassing" signs because the guys running dogs kept coming through. They've cut fences (and repaired them) and taken gates off of hinges. They replaced some of the hinges upside down to make it easier to get back through, which reminds me I need to bring some tools out so I can turn the hinges around to prevent cattle from knocking the gates off.


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Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6778756
05/30/17 06:36 PM
05/30/17 06:36 PM
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Central Texas
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
The practice isn't suddenly invalid. It is illegal to shoot stray dogs without owner consent...

Quote:
Shooting “stray” Dogs and Cats (Penal Code 42.09 Animal Cruelty). Any person who shoots a non-livestock animal, which includes any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured, can be charged with a felony offense. Penal Code 42.092 of the State of Texas law states that a person must have the owner’s consent to kill the animal (exceptions to prosecution are provided in Section 42.092(e)(1)). It is clear that a “stray” dog or cat either has no owner or that the person who shoots the animal did not get the owner’s consent.


Just to hammer home the point, this can be a FELONY offense.


OTOH, the property I hunt is changing its' tax status from Agriculture to Wildlife Management. Part of the paperwork we had to submit list Feral Cats as a species to be controlled. We talked about this specifically with the wildlife biologist and were advised to shoot feral cats on sight.

Not an expert by any means, but if a feral animal is on your property, might you be considered the owner? I think that's how it works with feral hogs. The state does not claim them.


You can never have too much ammo — unless you're swimming.
Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: Cast] #6778821
05/30/17 07:34 PM
05/30/17 07:34 PM
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webb1974 Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Cast
I don't like dog killing threads.


This was definitely not intended to be about the dog but about the ignorant.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: der Teufel] #6778829
05/30/17 07:48 PM
05/30/17 07:48 PM
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Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
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Originally Posted By: der Teufel
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
The practice isn't suddenly invalid. It is illegal to shoot stray dogs without owner consent...

Quote:
Shooting “stray” Dogs and Cats (Penal Code 42.09 Animal Cruelty). Any person who shoots a non-livestock animal, which includes any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured, can be charged with a felony offense. Penal Code 42.092 of the State of Texas law states that a person must have the owner’s consent to kill the animal (exceptions to prosecution are provided in Section 42.092(e)(1)). It is clear that a “stray” dog or cat either has no owner or that the person who shoots the animal did not get the owner’s consent.


Just to hammer home the point, this can be a FELONY offense.


OTOH, the property I hunt is changing its' tax status from Agriculture to Wildlife Management. Part of the paperwork we had to submit list Feral Cats as a species to be controlled. We talked about this specifically with the wildlife biologist and were advised to shoot feral cats on sight.

Not an expert by any means, but if a feral animal is on your property, might you be considered the owner? I think that's how it works with feral hogs. The state does not claim them.


Your wildlife biologist may have have told you to do something that is expressly against the law. He won't face possible charges if you do the shooting. You will. Consider consulting your attorney before engaging in such acts.


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Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6778852
05/30/17 08:10 PM
05/30/17 08:10 PM
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Lewisville/ Red River County
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The animal cruelty law has some subjectivity in the defense to prosecution in the subsection related to wildlife management, killing of livestock and depredation control. The trespass law is clear. No defense mentioned for retrieving a dog. Simply put, I'd rather explain to a game warden why I shot a cat than what I'm doing on someone else's property without permission.
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted By: der Teufel
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
The practice isn't suddenly invalid. It is illegal to shoot stray dogs without owner consent...

Quote:
Shooting “stray” Dogs and Cats (Penal Code 42.09 Animal Cruelty). Any person who shoots a non-livestock animal, which includes any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured, can be charged with a felony offense. Penal Code 42.092 of the State of Texas law states that a person must have the owner’s consent to kill the animal (exceptions to prosecution are provided in Section 42.092(e)(1)). It is clear that a “stray” dog or cat either has no owner or that the person who shoots the animal did not get the owner’s consent.


Just to hammer home the point, this can be a FELONY offense.


OTOH, the property I hunt is changing its' tax status from Agriculture to Wildlife Management. Part of the paperwork we had to submit list Feral Cats as a species to be controlled. We talked about this specifically with the wildlife biologist and were advised to shoot feral cats on sight.

Not an expert by any means, but if a feral animal is on your property, might you be considered the owner? I think that's how it works with feral hogs. The state does not claim them.


Your wildlife biologist may have have told you to do something that is expressly against the law. He won't face possible charges if you do the shooting. You will. Consider consulting your attorney before engaging in such acts.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: der Teufel] #6778855
05/30/17 08:13 PM
05/30/17 08:13 PM
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Deep East Texas
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Originally Posted By: der Teufel
Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
The practice isn't suddenly invalid. It is illegal to shoot stray dogs without owner consent...

Quote:
Shooting “stray” Dogs and Cats (Penal Code 42.09 Animal Cruelty). Any person who shoots a non-livestock animal, which includes any stray or feral cat or dog, and a wild living creature previously captured, can be charged with a felony offense. Penal Code 42.092 of the State of Texas law states that a person must have the owner’s consent to kill the animal (exceptions to prosecution are provided in Section 42.092(e)(1)). It is clear that a “stray” dog or cat either has no owner or that the person who shoots the animal did not get the owner’s consent.


Just to hammer home the point, this can be a FELONY offense.


OTOH, the property I hunt is changing its' tax status from Agriculture to Wildlife Management. Part of the paperwork we had to submit list Feral Cats as a species to be controlled. We talked about this specifically with the wildlife biologist and were advised to shoot feral cats on sight.

Not an expert by any means, but if a feral animal is on your property, might you be considered the owner? I think that's how it works with feral hogs. The state does not claim them.


'Feral' has nothing to do with it. Feral Hogs were reclassified as 'Exotic Livestock' some years back. By doing so...they belong (are owned) by the land owner on who's property they exist (with certain provisions). This absolves the State of any responsibility or ownership.

Feral Dogs, Cats...etc must be dispatched under the various depredation or health laws.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6778856
05/30/17 08:17 PM
05/30/17 08:17 PM
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I can copy/paste too;

"(e) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(2) or (6) that:
1) the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery; "

"(f) It is an exception to the application of this section that the conduct engaged in by the actor is a generally accepted and otherwise lawful:
(B) wildlife management, wildlife or depredation control, or shooting preserve practices as regulated by state and federal law"


You have a defense to prosecution if the dog was injuring livestock or harassing wildlife.

Re: Hog doggers strike again [Re: TexOddball] #6778884
05/30/17 08:50 PM
05/30/17 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: TexOddball
I can copy/paste too;


You have a defense to prosecution if the dog was injuring livestock or harassing wildlife.


Yes, it has already been stated at least twice in previous posts.

The subject however is the indiscriminate killing of dogs that are simply on the property. The law is clear about that and 'case law' exists to support it. I don't recommend it.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
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