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Mar 25th, 2012
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6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared #6748291
04/28/17 02:07 AM
04/28/17 02:07 AM
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This debate pops up quite often.

I've hand loaded, and shot all three cartridges for many rounds, and have tons of friends that do the same. I currently use, and shoot all three. I showed a customer this comparison last weekend. This is just talking the common short actions. The 6.5 Creedmoor and the .260 Remington make the same ballistics, so I'm lumping them together. I input muzzle velocities based on the maximum performance I've been able to safely achieve out of the cartridges. And these numbers are all based on a 24" barrel. Numbers would have to be adjusted based on shorter barrels. Every caliber is loaded with a Hornady ELD-X high BC hunting bullet, to keep things on the same playing field. G-7 ballistic coefficient is input based on Hornady's published BC. jbmballistics.com is the calculator. Wind drift and energy deliver is all that I am reporting. Elevation is easily corrected for. Wind is based on a 5 mph at 3 or 9 o'clock to the shot direction, and reported in Mils. If you want to use MOA, multiply these values by 3.43. I am not, again, advocating long range game animal shooting. But these numbers probably matter for someone that hates to let a feral hog or a coyote get a pass.

6.5mm
143 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .314
MV 2800 fps

100 yards 0 wind, 2245 ft/ lbs.
200 yards .1 wind, 2013 ft/ lbs.
300 yards .2 wind, 1800 ft/ lbs.
400 yards .3 wind, 1605 ft/ lbs.
500 yards .4 wind, 1428 ft/ lbs.
600 yards .5 wind, 1266 ft/ lbs.
700 yards .6 wind, 1119 ft/ lbs.
800 yards .7 wind, 984 ft/ lbs.
900 yards .8 wind, 862 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards .9 wind, 751 ft/ lbs.

7mm-08
162 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .318
MV 2750 fps

100 yards, 0 wind, 2455 ft/ lbs.
200 yards, .1 wind, 2206 ft/ lbs.
300 yards, .2 wind, 1970 ft/ lbs.
400 yards, .3 wind, 1758 ft/ lbs.
500 yards, .4 wind, 1565 ft/ lbs.
600 yards, .5 wind, 1388 ft/ lbs.
700 yards, .6 wind, 1227 ft/ lbs.
800 yards, .7 wind, 1080 ft/ lbs.
900 yards, .8 wind, 946 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards, .9 wind, 825 ft/ lbs.

.308 Winchester
178 gr. ELD-X
G-7 BC .278
MV 2700 fps

100 yards, .1 wind, 2559 ft/ lbs.
200 yards, .2 wind, 2256 ft/ lbs.
300 yards, .3 wind, 1982 ft/ lbs.
400 yards, .4 wind, 1736 ft/ lbs.
500 yards, .5 wind, 1514 ft/ lbs.
600 yards, .6 wind, 1314 ft/ lbs.
700 yards, .7 wind, 1134 ft/ lbs.
800 yards, .9 wind, 972 ft/ lbs.
900 yards, 1.0 wind, 828 ft/ lbs.
1000 yards, 1.2 wind, 700 ft/ lbs.

What's the Cliff's notes?

The 6.5mm and the 7mm both do significantly better in the wind. Remember, those are 5 mph wind values. If it were 7-8 mph, add 50% to those holds. If it were a 10 mph wind, double those holds.

Energy delivery, well the good ole' .308 Win does a great job, and beats both the 6.5mm and the 7mm out to 300 yards.

At 400, 500, 600 & 700 yards the winning order is:
7mm-08
.308
6.5 mm

At 800, 900, and 1000 yards the winning order is:
7mm-08
6.5mm
.308

Of course there are many factors to choose one over the other. If a person is not a hand loader, two of the three are most likely going to shoot match grade, small, with mass produced ammo, and those being the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .308 Winchester. But they both will probably have lower speeds than what these values were based on. Rifle chambering availability is also a factor, of course. But if a guy is going to build a custom, or semi-custom rifle AND he is a hand loader he can make the rile do what ever he wants. Shorten the barrel, lose velocity, gain maneuverability. The end user has to decide. All three of these can be chambered in an AR platform, which will also reduce velocity. I call it the gas-gun tax. Then the other option of bullet weight can be adjusted for that platform. For instance I have a 16" barrel (6" less than these test subjects) AR platform .308 Win. Because I was going to be hurting for velocity, I switched over to a 155 gr bullet, and strayed from my normal H-Varget powder. Chad recommended a change in powder to gain velocity, and it worked. I managed to eek out 2600 fps MV out of a suppressed 16" AR, safely. But in order to post every possible combination of cartridge, bullet weight, and barrel length would dictate more time than I'm willing to give it. wink

This is maximum performance I've obtained from bolt action 24" barrels. Just as an example of what each can do. Rule of thumb, for anyone wanting to compare numbers to shorter barrels, is 20-25 fps per inch of barrel cut off. Reduce the velocities based on the new barrel length.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748306
04/28/17 02:18 AM
04/28/17 02:18 AM
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I would like to see The same kind of review for the varmint/predator calibers with the Hornady bullets
223, 22250, 243, and the newer 6 creed in a 24" barrel

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law] #6748313
04/28/17 02:22 AM
04/28/17 02:22 AM
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Cause quite a swing depending on bullet weight in those little ones. Or are you just meaning max performance, like these are?



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748341
04/28/17 02:42 AM
04/28/17 02:42 AM
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Great write up, thanks!

I'm loving my 7mm-08 and don't see a reason to change anytime soon.


Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748344
04/28/17 02:42 AM
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Same kinda comparison with 75 amax for the 2 .22's and probably 105's for the other 2
Maybe include 55 grainers also with the .22s
That would cover about 10 million common questions amongst the most popular calibers

Then, you could do one for the most common magnums and a couple of new nosler mags

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law] #6748369
04/28/17 02:56 AM
04/28/17 02:56 AM
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I know where to dig up reported velocities, and average them. It'll take a few weeks, but can do.



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748376
04/28/17 03:00 AM
04/28/17 03:00 AM
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I was just looking at 308 velocities for short barrels and ran across this link below. He shot all the way down to 6" 308 ended up ripping his front back, blew his AICS mag to pieces, and broke his bipod rofl that's crazy.

He did 26" down to 16.5" on another post and also did the same with 223.

Won't be doing the 10" 308 even with the 147's you're down around 300BLK velocities.

http://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/308-winc...h-308-bolt-gun/




[Linked Image]

Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
I dig the CHODE.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748579
04/28/17 01:00 PM
04/28/17 01:00 PM
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The little ole 7mm gets under appreciated so often. It's a shame as it works pretty well.

Funny thing is even though the energy difference is miniscule there is a noticeable in the way the steel acts when hit.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Brother in-law] #6748663
04/28/17 02:23 PM
04/28/17 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
up

I would like to see The same kind of review for the varmint/predator calibers with the Hornady bullets
223, 22250, 243, and the newer 6 creed in a 24" barrel


Lets go ahead and toss the .220 Swift in that comparison too.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748669
04/28/17 02:32 PM
04/28/17 02:32 PM
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Good info. I have hunted deer with all 3. I prefer the 7mm08 on deer size game. It's my favorite caliber and has been far a while.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748701
04/28/17 03:06 PM
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Interesting information. The 7-08 is very underrated and always has been IMO. Bullets are far more important that head stamps though, so I always consider what I'm shooting at first.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: dee] #6748734
04/28/17 03:40 PM
04/28/17 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: dee
The little ole 7mm gets under appreciated so often. It's a shame as it works pretty well.

Funny thing is even though the energy difference is miniscule there is a noticeable in the way the steel acts when hit.


Randy Newberg's go to on elk and mulie's.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748739
04/28/17 03:44 PM
04/28/17 03:44 PM
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The two places I shoot most often run north - south. At one I'm shooting from north to south and at the other it's south to north. I almost never have a 90* or 270* wind direction to gather dope from.

I've got one limited data set on my 260 (143 ELD-X @ 2825 fps) with 10 mph average wind (with some gusts) from 270*
400 - L 0.6 mils
500 - L 0.9 mils

I also have one set on the same day same wind on my 308 (168 AMax @ 2650 fps)
300 - L 0.3 mils
400 - L 0.9 mils
500 - L 1.1 mils
600 - L 0.8 mils (wind reduced to 5 mph)

Just some real world data to throw into the discussion...


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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6748743
04/28/17 03:48 PM
04/28/17 03:48 PM
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GTK info for sure, even at closer ranges. Thx for the effort in pulling out the data.
Ron


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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Jgraider] #6748770
04/28/17 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Bullets are far more important that head stamps though, so I always consider what I'm shooting at first.


No doubt.

This was simply comparing today's common head stamps. Sure we could add 6.5X55, 7X57, and so on. This was just saying that these particular bullets can do, at these particular muzzle velocities.



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6748880
04/28/17 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: dee
The little ole 7mm gets under appreciated so often. It's a shame as it works pretty well.

Funny thing is even though the energy difference is miniscule there is a noticeable in the way the steel acts when hit.


Randy Newberg's go to on elk and mulie's.



If mine didn't weigh over 20lbs it would be mine as well.

I've yet to see a critter not fall from a 162gr amax/eld.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: dee] #6765687
05/16/17 05:57 PM
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Same here.



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6765786
05/16/17 07:19 PM
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this thread gave me a headache bang


"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"
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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Buzzsaw] #6765798
05/16/17 07:31 PM
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It's just data, Buzz! confused2



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6765948
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I know, I'm too A D D

if I ever have data questions I will always go to my ballistician


YOU nidea


and Chad of course


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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Buzzsaw] #6766115
05/17/17 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
this thread gave me a headache bang


Cliff notes= 7mm is the bestest!


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6766593
05/17/17 02:32 PM
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They all look pretty close to me for most folks applications. Hard to say one is truly better unless you have a specific task In mind.

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Shaner] #6766630
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Without a doubt.

And if there's a specific task in mind, one might, or might not be the perfect choice. All three have their merits.



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Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: FiremanJG] #6768616
05/19/17 03:11 PM
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Thanks for posting that data comparison. Very useful for us beginners. up

Re: 6.5mm, 7mm-08, .308 Win compared [Re: Always ready 2 hunt] #6773245
05/24/17 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Always ready 2 hunt
Thanks for posting that data comparison. Very useful for us beginners. up


I second the thanks. Been thunking about an AR 10 in 308/6.5 cm. This helps with some questions I had. up

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