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Thermal Scopes and dying pixels #6681998 02/21/17 03:27 AM
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thermal time Offline OP
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Just wondering if any of you owners of thermal rifle scopes have had any issues with pixels going dead over time. I have the Reap-IR and just this last weekend had to take 7 shots rapid style when a large group of hogs came out sudden like. Afterwards I noticed that two white spots always persist in the scope image. Can only guess that some pixels have died. Unit is 1 year old and has been flawless until now. Unit still functions nominally just two white spots always persist. I know IR Defense will cancel these dead pixels out and assign adjacent active pixels to their location in the OLED display but one can only wonder if this will be an on going issue with usage ? This is what I see when looking at a featureless wall. Even after performing a NUC.


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Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6682044 02/21/17 04:15 AM
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On my Reap-IR they showed up at 3 months. One on the very top and the other far left. I contacted IRD but decided to wait for repair until I see more dead pixels or it starts to bug me.

Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6682719 02/21/17 08:37 PM
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My Mark II has the same thing...there's about 4 of them. Doesn't bother me much.

Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6717462 03/28/17 05:15 PM
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thermal time Offline OP
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I find it interesting that the only folks that have replied are IR Defense product owners. I sent my unit back for repair. I will give IR Defense credit for turning the unit around in three weeks as well as adjusting the focus on the unit. Images appear much better now.
I mounted the unit to my AR-15 to check the zero but after the 5th shot more dead pixels have appeared. After discussing this with Trijicon I am being told that dead pixels are just a normal issue with thermal sensors. I refuse to accept this kind of non sense reasoning. Clearly these sensors can not handle the shock induced by discharging a 223 Remington round in an AR-15. Maybe it can handle the recoil of a rimfire cartridge ? Not sure yet just know I wont be using any of their products on an center-fire rifle any more. Seems a bit crappy to me.


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He's a feeling arranger and a changer of the ways he talks.
He's the unforeseen danger and the keeper of the key to the locks.
Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6717602 03/28/17 08:04 PM
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I've seen them on all brands. My Reap doesn't have them but my buddies pulsar does. Pulsar warrantied it no problem. I wouldn't hesitate to reach out to Trijicon again. Make sure they understand that it is progressively getting worse as you say.


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Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6717852 03/29/17 12:33 AM
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I have seen it happen on Pulsar, ATN, and Armasight scopes as well.


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Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6717970 03/29/17 01:51 AM
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It is a normal process. Happens with all of then.

Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6721898 04/01/17 06:17 PM
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thermal time Offline OP
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Double Naught Spy. Take a look at your posting titled, Quick Shot Boar, Long Moving Coyote Shot. Look very closely at your video, time 0:36, during recoil of the rifle. Use the stop/start button to capture the exact time the rifle discharges. Capture this event for any of the recordings you have posted. The video becomes all messed up. Also note that the reticle overlay is completely undisturbed. I can assure you that what you see in the video is seen in your scopes eyepiece. Not only does your scope show this kind of response so does mine as well as many others. I would say over continued firing this connection or connections will fail. The big issue is what connection or connections are being compromised. So far, IR Defense/ Trijicon, the manufacturer has not answered this question which was presented almost one month ago.


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He's the unforeseen danger and the keeper of the key to the locks.
Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6722410 04/02/17 03:29 AM
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Again, since you posted this in two places...

thermal time. It happens with all brands of thermal and and least some of digital NV scopes. I am sure you are making a point, but I am not sure what it is. If you have a problem with Trijicon, take it up with them. Call them directly.


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Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6727355 04/06/17 04:21 PM
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The Pulsar has a pixel recovery.
Go to M2
Scroll down to the bottom
Select pixel location
Done.

Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6727403 04/06/17 05:06 PM
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thermal time Offline OP
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Yes it seems to be unanimous, they all do it. All I can say is "this is the best evidence yet that aliens from another planet really do exist". lol35 welcome

To all you newcomers out there don't worry, come on in. We won't eat you. grill


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He's a feeling arranger and a changer of the ways he talks.
He's the unforeseen danger and the keeper of the key to the locks.
Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6771294 05/22/17 03:45 PM
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thermal time Offline OP
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ZenArchery you are correct and thank god someone, that being Pulsar, has incorporated a utility to deal with this issue. I have been in contact with BAE, Flir and ULIS to get a straight answer to this issue but none of the manufactures will disclose anything due to "Intellectual Property" concerns. Bolometer development is a rapidly evolving process we can only expect better devices as time moves forward.

One interesting observation I have made is that the pixels that became defective after receiving the unit back from IR Defense have now recovered and have stayed functional with subsequent shots being fired. Defective pixels can recover. Pulsar allows one to delete repaired pixels so if one performs a pixel repair, at a later time after use of the scope, one may want to check to see if those pixels have become active again.

Another interesting aspect of current Bolometer manufactures are that they have taken two different paths. BAE and Flir are using Vandium Oxide material for their sensor elements. ULIS is using Resistive Amorphous Silicon. Pulsar is using the ULIS sensor and has a higher shock rating of 6000 J which is equivalent to a cartridge developing 4425 ft-lbs of muzzle energy in comparison to a .308 which develops around 3660 J of energy. The total number of pixel defects for a bolometer made using the Resistive Amorphous Silicon is far less than that I have seen specified for the Flir boson sensor. ULIS has specified .1% defects where Flir has specified as much as 2% for the commerical version of their new Boson sensor. BAE will not disclose total pixel defects for their sensors.

So what does a pixel look like ?



Here is an Electron Microscope view of them ;



Those legs are only 575 nm wide and 2 of them support each pixel. 575nm is in the wavelength of the visible light spectrum we see with our eyes folks, the color blue.

Rock on Thermal !


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He's a feeling arranger and a changer of the ways he talks.
He's the unforeseen danger and the keeper of the key to the locks.
Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6774416 05/25/17 02:02 PM
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Good info Thermal Time! All thermal sensor manufacturers have a way to mask(kill) dead pixels by duplicating an adjacent pixel and nearly all thermal sensors have dead pixels. When a pixel looks like it has recovered usually it is just because the software masked it with a nearby pixel.

Re: Thermal Scopes and dying pixels [Re: thermal time] #6774450 05/25/17 02:32 PM
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I have to wonder how much reliabilty is sacrificed to RoHS. It is not implemented in aviation products, and I hope it never is. It's all BS anyway.


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