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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667836
02/09/17 11:02 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club. I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. Back to the "jackwagon" discussion: If someone asks a poster "HF or LF?" - offense is immediately taken and the righteous indignation starts. Just over that simple question? If it's not a big deal, why the offense? Why is asking that one simple question considered verboten and being a "jackwagon"? Why not just own it and move on? The answer is clear: Because the ones who see it as offensive are ashamed of the fact that it was taken behind a HF.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667857
02/09/17 12:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 705
Age N Score ?
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 705 |
In the end, it's all sausage!
I Feed Indian Corn. The deer love it and all the colors make them stay at the feeder longer.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667868
02/09/17 12:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638 |
Not my cup of tea. But for those that enjoy this type of buck, congrats on your enjoyable hunt. For those that can't resist criticizing a photo posted of a successful hunt of this nature, I would say a man that's comfortable in his own skin can easily say congrats or simply not say or ask anything to the hunter. A man who feels the need to criticize I have no seat for around my campfire.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667899
02/09/17 01:23 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
don k
THF Celebrity
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Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#6667910
02/09/17 01:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,782
txtrophy85
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Frankenstein's monster deer.....I'd rather see a LF typical 12 pt. Just living under a high fence doesn't produce deer like that anymore than lifting weights twice a week will turn you into a Schwarzenegger.
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: don k]
#6667926
02/09/17 01:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright. I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three. Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667928
02/09/17 01:53 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481 |
Toured a deer breeder facility recently, it was a really fun interesting trip. Its not something I am interested in but none the less many are and it was still fun for me.
To me HF and LF are different animals. When people post pictures and don't say I like to ask but its usually not well received. I don't think any more/less of the deer, I just want to know.
In the end what drives things like that deer and the jacked up truck in my opinion can be summed up in a few simple words..."Mine's bigger than yours is"
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6667958
02/09/17 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club. I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. " A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "? You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own. I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667963
02/09/17 02:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,095
FamousAmos
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,095 |
I have asked HF or LF before because one is artificial and fabricated and the other is natural and wild. A parallel would be a nice 5 pound brown trout. Was it caught in a fishing tank on the Cabelas parking lot or from a Colorado stream? Makes all the difference in the world.
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6667970
02/09/17 02:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright. I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three. Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows. I can agree with most of what both of you are saying. It's when you follow "I don't like it" with a denigration of those who have different views than you, where we part ways. I love the free market. As you've both noted, the market is changing. I prefer to let it work, and not be judgmental.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667972
02/09/17 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
I have asked HF or LF before because one is artificial and fabricated and the other is natural and wild. A parallel would be a nice 5 pound brown trout. Was it caught in a fishing tank on the Cabelas parking lot or from a Colorado stream? Makes all the difference in the world. To you it does. But to another guy it might not. Why do you think you get to define what he enjoys? Bck bck bck...
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: therancher]
#6667974
02/09/17 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club. I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. " A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "? You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own. I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards. Bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinions. The missed/unaddressed point is why just asking about the story of the hunt is such an offense to many who take such animals, when most who share their deer are not only willing, but happy to tell the story of their hunt. The reason is obvious.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667978
02/09/17 02:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,273
BenBob
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,273 |
Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6667984
02/09/17 02:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
The question is kinda silly really.
The explanation is some guys simply want a huge deer and don't care how they get it.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: therancher]
#6667997
02/09/17 02:42 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
don k
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948 |
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright. I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three. Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows. I can agree with most of what both of you are saying. It's when you follow "I don't like it" with a denigration of those who have different views than you, where we part ways. I love the free market. As you've both noted, the market is changing. I prefer to let it work, and not be judgmental. I don't believe I denigrated anyone after "I don't like it".
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6668025
02/09/17 02:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,872
GLC
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,872 |
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6668092
02/09/17 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,416
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,416 |
"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club. I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. " A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "? You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own. I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards. Bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinions. The missed/unaddressed point is why just asking about the story of the hunt is such an offense to many who take such animals, when most who share their deer are not only willing, but happy to tell the story of their hunt. The reason is obvious. Duly noted jackwagon...moving along.....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6668108
02/09/17 03:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,095
FamousAmos
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,095 |
So, what is the "reasonable and rational explanation" for a deer like that?
Some people are willing to pay for it? (Free market capitalism)
Desire to see what "might be" with careful genetic modification? (Scientific effort and discovery)
A loss of traditional values and ethics? (Free range and fair chase)
“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.” Micah 6:8
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6668119
02/09/17 03:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.
Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.
The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.
In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.
People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling. It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice. You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: redchevy]
#6668142
02/09/17 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Toured a deer breeder facility recently, it was a really fun interesting trip. Its not something I am interested in but none the less many are and it was still fun for me.
To me HF and LF are different animals. When people post pictures and don't say I like to ask but its usually not well received. I don't think any more/less of the deer, I just want to know.
In the end what drives things like that deer and the jacked up truck in my opinion can be summed up in a few simple words..."Mine's bigger than yours is"
More importantly, it's what drives the B&C and others to denigrate people who choose to follow a different set of rules. The fact that B&C's rules prevent them from getting as "big" is why it's so important for them to attempt to invalidate others.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: don k]
#6668147
02/09/17 04:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
This crap is getting out of hand. This is dancing all around denigration, but no Don, you're not in the habit of denigrating.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6668152
02/09/17 04:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
So, what is the "reasonable and rational explanation" for a deer like that?
Some people are willing to pay for it? (Free market capitalism)
Desire to see what "might be" with careful genetic modification? (Scientific effort and discovery)
A loss of traditional values and ethics? (Free range and fair chase)
A reasonable and rational explanation is that someone wants to do it. Pure and simple. Fair chase? Do you use weapons? That ain't "fair". Ethics? I'm a natural predator. My ethics are mine your ethics are yours. You can't impose your ethics on me. More importantly: Why do you feel the need to force your view of "ethics and fair chase" on others??
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6668156
02/09/17 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.
Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.
The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.
In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.
People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling. It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice. You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments That'll leave a mark.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#6668222
02/09/17 05:17 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.
Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.
The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.
In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.
People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling. It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice. You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments I do not ask questions much less disparage a photo or other thread actually related to a specific hunt/animal. I also have never started a HF thread. Which is more than can be said for some. No mark. Just baseless ranting because I have a different view and some are sensitive at having been backed into corners they have painted themselves in when the subject is discussed.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: From Boone and Crocket
[Re: FamousAmos]
#6668237
02/09/17 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,654
heredeer
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,654 |
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