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Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667836 02/09/17 11:02 AM
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B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. smile

Back to the "jackwagon" discussion:

If someone asks a poster "HF or LF?" - offense is immediately taken and the righteous indignation starts. Just over that simple question? If it's not a big deal, why the offense? Why is asking that one simple question considered verboten and being a "jackwagon"? Why not just own it and move on?

The answer is clear: Because the ones who see it as offensive are ashamed of the fact that it was taken behind a HF.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667857 02/09/17 12:26 PM
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flag In the end, it's all sausage! bolt


I Feed Indian Corn. The deer love it and all the colors make them stay at the feeder longer.
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667868 02/09/17 12:45 PM
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Not my cup of tea.

But for those that enjoy this type of buck, congrats on your enjoyable hunt. up

For those that can't resist criticizing a photo posted of a successful hunt of this nature, I would say a man that's comfortable in his own skin can easily say congrats or simply not say or ask anything to the hunter.

A man who feels the need to criticize I have no seat for around my campfire.


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Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667899 02/09/17 01:23 PM
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Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.

Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: SnakeWrangler] #6667910 02/09/17 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: SnakeWrangler
Frankenstein's monster deer.....I'd rather see a LF typical 12 pt.


Just living under a high fence doesn't produce deer like that anymore than lifting weights twice a week will turn you into a Schwarzenegger.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: don k] #6667926 02/09/17 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.


I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three.

Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667928 02/09/17 01:53 PM
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Toured a deer breeder facility recently, it was a really fun interesting trip. Its not something I am interested in but none the less many are and it was still fun for me.

To me HF and LF are different animals. When people post pictures and don't say I like to ask but its usually not well received. I don't think any more/less of the deer, I just want to know.

In the end what drives things like that deer and the jacked up truck in my opinion can be summed up in a few simple words..."Mine's bigger than yours is"


It's hell eatin em live
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6667958 02/09/17 02:17 PM
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"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. "

A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. loser8

And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "?

You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own.

I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667963 02/09/17 02:19 PM
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I have asked HF or LF before because one is artificial and fabricated and the other is natural and wild. A parallel would be a nice 5 pound brown trout. Was it caught in a fishing tank on the Cabelas parking lot or from a Colorado stream? Makes all the difference in the world.


“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.”
‭‭Micah‬ ‭6:8‬
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6667970 02/09/17 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: don k
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.


I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three.

Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows.


I can agree with most of what both of you are saying. It's when you follow "I don't like it" with a denigration of those who have different views than you, where we part ways.

I love the free market. As you've both noted, the market is changing. I prefer to let it work, and not be judgmental.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667972 02/09/17 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: FamousAmos
I have asked HF or LF before because one is artificial and fabricated and the other is natural and wild. A parallel would be a nice 5 pound brown trout. Was it caught in a fishing tank on the Cabelas parking lot or from a Colorado stream? Makes all the difference in the world.


To you it does. But to another guy it might not. Why do you think you get to define what he enjoys? Bck bck bck...


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: therancher] #6667974 02/09/17 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. "

A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. loser8

And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "?

You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own.

I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards.


Bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinions.

The missed/unaddressed point is why just asking about the story of the hunt is such an offense to many who take such animals, when most who share their deer are not only willing, but happy to tell the story of their hunt.

The reason is obvious.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667978 02/09/17 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: FamousAmos



Really good food plot?


Tired, Wired, and Uninspired
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6667984 02/09/17 02:32 PM
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The question is kinda silly really.

The explanation is some guys simply want a huge deer and don't care how they get it.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: therancher] #6667997 02/09/17 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: don k
Personally what I don't like is the manipulation of genetics and who knows what else to get an animal to look like that. I have a HF and I raise Ibex but there are also WT in it that will never be anything but what is normal for this area. I believe there are many WT breeders that see the writing on the wall. Be it from the CWD scare or competition or what is now happening with the Bucks not even looking like WT Bucks and the market for them drying up. I have heard of and personally been in contact with WT breeders that are looking for alternatives to utilize the facilities they have in place. Who knows what the future will be for WT breeders but I would think it is not real bright.


I agree and am seeing that also. IDK if it's just not cool anymore because attitudes are changing, increased pressure because of CWD, etc. opposition, or if the market is just drying up because everyone who wants a Frankendeer already has one (or ten). Probably a combination of all three.

Even at the big shows like DSC, TTHA, and SCI the number of breeders with booths has decreased drastically over the past few years. They used to be half the shows.


I can agree with most of what both of you are saying. It's when you follow "I don't like it" with a denigration of those who have different views than you, where we part ways.

I love the free market. As you've both noted, the market is changing. I prefer to let it work, and not be judgmental.
I don't believe I denigrated anyone after "I don't like it".

Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6668025 02/09/17 02:55 PM
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Just not my cup of tea.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6668092 02/09/17 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: therancher
"B&C is a voluntary private club with their own standards. They have every right to take whatever positions on anything hunting/conservation related they wish. America, First Amendment, all that jazz. You have every right to disagree with their positions and not join their club.

I don't get some of y'all's panties being in such a wad over that. Just don't join their club and have your opposite views. Why are their views considered bitching and your opposite views not considered bitching? Answer: because you're looking at it like a 2 year old in a high chair. "

A 2 yr old in a high chair? So much for your holier than thou "I never insult first" BS. loser8

And, when have you ever seen TDA, TGR, SCI post a pic of a mainframe 185" 12 point with a note to the side that you "want an explanation for why this animal qualifies for one club but not the others "?

You won't see that from those "clubs" because they don't feel the need to denigrate others choices to feel better about their own.

I believe your 2 yr old in a high chair analogy is bassakwards.


Bottom line is we are all entitled to our opinions.

The missed/unaddressed point is why just asking about the story of the hunt is such an offense to many who take such animals, when most who share their deer are not only willing, but happy to tell the story of their hunt.

The reason is obvious.

Duly noted jackwagon...moving along.....


Originally Posted by Sneaky
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored]
Originally Posted by beaversnipe
Actually, BBC is pretty damn good

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6668108 02/09/17 03:48 PM
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So, what is the "reasonable and rational explanation" for a deer like that?

Some people are willing to pay for it? (Free market capitalism)

Desire to see what "might be" with careful genetic modification? (Scientific effort and discovery)

A loss of traditional values and ethics? (Free range and fair chase)


“And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.”
‭‭Micah‬ ‭6:8‬
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6668119 02/09/17 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.

Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.

The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.

In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.

People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling.


It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice.

You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments

Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: redchevy] #6668142 02/09/17 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
Toured a deer breeder facility recently, it was a really fun interesting trip. Its not something I am interested in but none the less many are and it was still fun for me.

To me HF and LF are different animals. When people post pictures and don't say I like to ask but its usually not well received. I don't think any more/less of the deer, I just want to know.

In the end what drives things like that deer and the jacked up truck in my opinion can be summed up in a few simple words..."Mine's bigger than yours is"



More importantly, it's what drives the B&C and others to denigrate people who choose to follow a different set of rules. The fact that B&C's rules prevent them from getting as "big" is why it's so important for them to attempt to invalidate others.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: don k] #6668147 02/09/17 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: don k
This crap is getting out of hand.


This is dancing all around denigration, but no Don, you're not in the habit of denigrating.


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Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6668152 02/09/17 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: FamousAmos
So, what is the "reasonable and rational explanation" for a deer like that?

Some people are willing to pay for it? (Free market capitalism)

Desire to see what "might be" with careful genetic modification? (Scientific effort and discovery)

A loss of traditional values and ethics? (Free range and fair chase)



A reasonable and rational explanation is that someone wants to do it. Pure and simple.

Fair chase? Do you use weapons? That ain't "fair".

Ethics? I'm a natural predator. My ethics are mine your ethics are yours. You can't impose your ethics on me. More importantly:
Why do you feel the need to force your view of "ethics and fair chase" on others??


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6668156 02/09/17 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.

Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.

The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.

In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.

People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling.


It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice.

You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments


That'll leave a mark.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6668222 02/09/17 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
For the record, when folks post photos and big signs declaring "world records", blah, blah - comment is sure to follow. Circumstances of the "hunt" is fair game. If you can't accept that, don't put it out there.

Questions, comment, and/or observations about something placed in the public domain ain't "bitching". If you're proud of it and think it's all hunky dory, why be defensive about the circumstances? Same for those that get all defensive for others.

The fact that folks want others to just ooh, aah, and ask no questions/brook no comment about the circumstances belies their insecurity about those very circumstances.

In other words, if you're proud, be proud of the entire hunt, not just the size of the deer. Own it all. Or don't publicize it.

People never say "Yes he was taken on a HF hunt in one afternoon that I paid 20K for, so what? I'm still very proud of him. It's all the same." Instead, they get all butthurt and defensive when asked about the hunt. It's all very telling.


It more telling when someone states it was a HF hunt and you go on to attack their hunt, then tell others they they shouldn't apologize to the OP because that what the OP gets for going on a HF hunt, and stating his experiences of it. But that's what you do discredit others hunts and experiences, ironically then you cry when someone questions or makes parallels to your hunts. If it's not a hunt then you chastise their legal weapon choice.

You are by far the most unqualified to chastise on this board simply in experience and in ability to receive and handle similar comments


I do not ask questions much less disparage a photo or other thread actually related to a specific hunt/animal. I also have never started a HF thread. Which is more than can be said for some. smile

No mark. Just baseless ranting because I have a different view and some are sensitive at having been backed into corners they have painted themselves in when the subject is discussed.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: From Boone and Crocket [Re: FamousAmos] #6668237 02/09/17 05:24 PM
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