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Opinion and Help #6659787 02/03/17 06:49 AM
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John Humbert Offline OP
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Ok, gonna be totally honest next here. I'm not a big pig hunter. I've shot a half dozen or so, but tend to pass on shots if I'm hunting Axis or Whitetail. The pigs I've killed fall into two categories. Ones that drop right there, and those that ran 50-100 yards. I always try for head or heart shots. Aside from a big 300# boar shot in the ear, the others have been smaller "eaters" of 50-75 pounds.

This fall I been hunting a new property for big deer, but it has tons of hogs. Rarely do I see sounders with less than 25-30. And there are some huge ones mixed in. When I say huge, I'm conservatively estimating 250-400 pounds.

Deer hunting was very slow at times, so I decided to shoot some pigs with my .308 - picking out the largest out of the sounders. Problem is, I haven't dropped one yet despite shooting (at) 7 or 8 monsters. The first couple of times I figured I just plain missed on the head shots, even though I heard whacks and squeals. Distance was about 200-250 yards.

Chaulked it up to poor shooting. My bad. The thing is that I killed a deer at the same distance after I missed on a hog with a perfect placed shot. And "missed" on another pig not more than an hour after shooting the deer. These pig shots were body shots, since I had lost confidence in my headshot skill.

The next trip I decided to go just for pigs - I was getting frustrated. So I setup not more than 60 yards from where they crossed. In that one morning, I had three separate groups cross and munch on corn. I squeezed off a shot at the biggest out of each group. Each pig was at least 300 pounds.

Not a single one dropped. And I found zero blood for any of these three, nor any of the others before it. I searched 200-300 yards in the direction the sounders took off and never found squat. No blood, hair, or carcass.

Now I could be a terrible shot - but I know that the last two were definitely hit - heck they were knocked down, but popped right up.

The next sounder I did a head shot. Knocked another down and found an ear and piece of skull - but still she ran off like nothing.

So here's my question. Could these big pigs really be soaking up that much lead? Or am I just jinxed? Am I misjudging placement and not hitting vitals? I am perfectly willing to admit I missed once or twice, but I find hard to believe I missed kill zone that many times - especially since I dropped deer and turkey with perfect shots at greater distance all during season.

I figured a pig missing part of skull wouldn't go far - but obviously I'm wrong. And aside from ear/skull didn't find a drop of blood. Not a drop!

Tell me your experiences with very large pigs. I'm shooting a .308 with HSM 168gr Bergers. I'm about ready to bring the .375 !!!

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6659792 02/03/17 06:54 AM
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One boar i shot at the shoulder spun him 90 deg. With his [censored]-end facing me, he grunted, squealed and ran off like he was on fire.

Last edited by John Humbert; 02/03/17 06:54 AM.
Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6659800 02/03/17 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: John Humbert
Could these big pigs really be soaking up that much lead? Or am I just jinxed? Am I misjudging placement and not hitting vitals?


Yes; probably not; maybe.

Those porkers can absorb an incredible amount of energy and keep on moving. We all prefer a bang-flop, DRT shot, but that just doesn't always happen. I've seen big hogs hit solidly with a large caliber and either flinch, squeal or spin around and then take off; or show no sign of being hit, yet found within a hundred yards or so (sometimes found next day, beneath a bunch of buzzards). On the other hand, I once hit a 220# sow in the shoulder with a 55 grain soft point 22/250 at over 200 yards. DRT. Go figure.

So, don't be stingy with the Bergers--shoot enough and often enough to KNOW your POI at 50, 100, 200 yards. FOLLOW UP on a shot where you're sure you made a hit.


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6659821 02/03/17 12:04 PM
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Neck shot break the spine but got to hit the spine.

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: SapperTitan] #6659956 02/03/17 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: SapperTitan
Neck shot break the spine but got to hit the spine.


Central nervous system shots are the deal ( neck and head ) ,heart shots they will run father than you want to look for them most times but average 60 yards ,but they are good at dying in the thickest stuff they can find
Good luck



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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660008 02/03/17 02:59 PM
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Man, I've been there with a string of "WTH happened".. .300 RUM at 100 yards, dropped him only to get up and run after 10 secs or so.. .270 at 100 yards into a feeder pen. Hit him twice then he jumped over the 50" cattle panel (I could see serious damage against his dark hair).. few weeks ago with my 25.06 at 75 yards, broad side.. hit the ground, got up and took off.. 22.250 at 80+ yards right in the noggin, hit the dirt and laid still for at least 2 min.. got up and took off when he came to..

I could go on and on.. it's all about shot placement.. I've killed many in the ear, neck, behind the shoulder.. sometimes it just doesn't go the way we intended. theyre tough sobs ..

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660016 02/03/17 03:02 PM
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For a guy who doesn't hunt hogs much, you have seen, shot at, and lost more trophy hogs in a morning than most people see in several years. So you are obviously doing something very wrong.

Okay, the bottom line is that if you do not do significant damage to the CNS, you can expect hogs to run, plain and simple. So what are you doing in preparation for a hog that runs?

If you are not getting any blood at the shot location, then it sounds like your bullet isn't exiting. Hogs often seal up after being shot, sort of like self sealing fuel tanks on military aircraft, particularly with vitals shots on large hogs that are either covered with a lot of fat or have thick shields, but you will get spray with a bullet that exits. Entry wounds tend NOT to bleed much, if at all. High shots may bleed out less than low shots. My guess is that you are shooting too high, assuming that you are actually hitting the vitals. Also note that gut shots may not bleed a whole lot either if you don't his a major blood vessel.

If you are not getting any blood at the shot location, then it sounds like your bullet isn't exiting. I would change bullets for one that penetrates better. I have shot more than one hog that produced spray at the location where shot and then no blood trail. So I had good exit and a verified hit, but the hog sealed up.

If a hog is shot through the vitals and the bullet does not do damage to the spine, expect it to run anywhere from 1-400 yards, though most will go down inside 100 with a good vitals shot and many of those will go down inside of 50. Every once in a while, you can put a shot through the vitals area that actually misses everything or at least fails to actually do significant damage to any of the vitals. It can happen, but is rare.

Hogs are very motivated runners. I had a hog go over 60 yards with a through and through vitals .308 shot that broke both front legs, damaged the lungs, and major blood vessels.

If you are shooting hogs and they are going down and getting back up again, shoot them again. Stop gawking at the hog you shot and watching it run away. If you are shooting a bolt gun, you need to cycle that bolt as soon as you have pulled the trigger and get back on target. If the hog shows any sign of trying to get up, shoot it again. As the hogs are large, you may just want to shoot them again for good measure, to make sure they stay down. If you are shooting a single shot, then apparently, you need to change to a gun with a higher capacity because your caliber/ammo isn't working for you and you aren't able to fire again quickly enough. If you are shooting a semi-auto, you have no excuse for not pumping another round into the hog immediately. If you are having hogs get up on you, then you need to be pumping extra rounds into them for assurance as either your aim is off or your ammo isn't doing a sufficient job for you. It is much easier to put extra rounds into a downed hog than a hog that is running. Your job is not done until you have walked up and verified that the hog is dead. You must verify that it either has no eye reflex (touch the eye with a stick) and/or that it is no longer breathing. I usually do both, first watching the breathing and then moving to the head to check the eye reflex.

More than one hunter has had a "dead" hog get up and run away on them because they only saw it go down and become still. They did not actually verify that it was dead. On a recent hunt in Clay County, I started dragging off a 'dead' hog that wasn't dead. It kicked a little and I thought it was having a spasm. Then is squealed and I realized it was still alive. I had to stop and shoot it again. One of my hunting buddies witnessed the event and had a good chuckle, then noted that he had loaded a "dead" hog, driven it to the bone yard, dumped it, and then saw it standing up while he was unloading other hogs. It wasn't dead. ALWAYS verify that the hog is dead. It is better to shoot a hog too many times than too few times.


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660044 02/03/17 03:20 PM
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Ditch the 'Berger' bullet in favor of anything that will hold together better.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/260876...-free-box-of-20

Then STOP going for 'head shots'! Too much room for error with that shot.

Shoot at the middle of the neck or take a high shoulder shot. Any well constructed bullet placed in either of those areas will put your hog down.

IMO...there are only two reasons to take a headshot:

1. You have NO other shot.
2. You are under-gunned and are hoping to hit the brain to make up for it.

Breaking the spine (at either the neck or high in the shoulder) will put hogs down just as quickly as a brain shot. And your margin for error is MUCH greater.

Get some good sturdy bullets, put them where I told you....then come back and tell us what happened. Bet it will be a success story.

Good luck Sir, keep after them.

Flint.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660072 02/03/17 03:36 PM
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Don't feel bed. I shot a big hog in the head with a 300winmag at 70 yards. It blew 40% of the hogs head off. The hog dropped and didn't move for two hours. I walked up to the hog, it jumped up and charged me. Most I've shot have dropped, a few have run off and I few I've never found even with thermal. This is why I hate them and love to hunt them.


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660181 02/03/17 04:47 PM
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1. change your bullet, how about try NOSLER Partition and see if that improves your count
2. change where you aim - try shooting into the shoulder blade

please give update after the changes

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660208 02/03/17 05:08 PM
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It has pretty much been covered already, DNS and Flintknapper told you what you need to know. Better bullet that will hold together, don't like any kind of ballistic tip or anything, a bullet that will penetrate well and keep the energy inside rather than breaking apart on impact is what you need.

Keep shooting once they are down or at least keep on target and pop them again if they start to get up. Pigs are tough, and a 250# hog is twice the size of most Texas deer and will act like it. As DNS said, keep a round in the chamber and watch that downed pig until It completely stops moving and then get to it quickly to make sure it is down for good.

As Flintknapper said, shoot for the high shoulder or neck area rather than the head. Much more incapacitating shot if you hit spine and the area of forgiveness is much larger than with head shots.

Finally keep at it and send us some pics of those monster hogs.

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660258 02/03/17 05:46 PM
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Thanks guys. I know I'm doing something wrong. But I'm not an inexperienced hunter, which is what make this frustrating. This place has an incredible numberbof hogs. They come out of the river bed at the edge of the property.

After two misses, I backed off headshots even though I've used them several times before with no issues. I know my shooting can't be two bad and my rifle is dialed in - I mean I hit a turkey in the neck at same distance/blind at 200+ yards.

Here's my scenario/setup. I'm at the Far East edge of the property. There is a sloping road that runs that fenceline. I'm setup on the road, a bit elevated where I can see the entire road (about 600-700 yards). The road gradually dips in the middle down about 20 feet. At the bottom of the dip, I have a feeder.

The hogs cross the road in groups, pop out from the fence or thick brush on the other side. It's a clear unobstructed shot while they are on the road. But they don't stay long. Sometime they never stop and I just see 20-30 hogs cross. Sometime they spend a few seconds checking out the feeder.

Shots have to be quick. Once a few hogs show, I get on the scope and wait for a bruiser to cross. As soon as one pauses, I let fly. I cycle immediately after I shoot, but the targeted pig is usually gone. Follow up shots - so far - have not been possible. However, there are usually another pig on the road.

No doubt the quick shot leads to pulling sometimes, and I can accept that placement is off. But Geez, 7 or 8 without one down is ridiculous and unacceptable. And I know I've gotten some hits. But I've covered hundreds of yards looking for downed animals and never a sign. Vultures and coyotes are plentiful too - and they don't seem to find any either.

Berger's have always done well for me, and I've taken numerous deer and Africa game without a lost animal.

But these big hogs are giving me fits. They look a bit unusual too. Many of them have very short noses, looking more like domestic pigs. And some of the lighter colored or spotted ones have little hair. The have bigger, bulkier bodies with shorter legs (or maybe it just looks that way).

All the critters around there are very large and heavy. Farm cultivation all around and they get fat eating corn and wheat. The last deer is shot there was enormous body, I could barely lift it on the rack. The four quarters at the processor weighed 62 pounds - normally a deer I drop off weighs about 42 pounds. I saw a doe I swear had to be close to 200 lbs.

I have the idea that one of these big sows might taste pretty good. I try to select ones with big dragging bellies so I can get some true bacon. But no success yet.

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660271 02/03/17 05:54 PM
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Pretty much what others have said. I'll take a head shot occasionally, when I'm shooting from a solid rest with a rifle in which I have complete confidence, and the range is under 60 yards. Usually, I go for a neck or shoulder shot. I used to avoid the shoulder so as to not mess up more meat, but I've come to the conclusion that it's better to waste some meat than to watch the hog run off.

Keep after 'em!
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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660382 02/03/17 07:24 PM
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I've dropped them with 556, 270 and 308. Like everyone has commented placement and bullet. The 556 was at 300 yd in the rear hip crippling the hog didn't pass thru stopped at outer skin, 270 was between the eyes DRT, 308 broke the spine. We all have had runners.
Keep huntin and shooting.

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660422 02/03/17 07:47 PM
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One of the fat pigs - note the short nose and short legs. But no where near the larger ones.


Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660423 02/03/17 07:48 PM
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Well if you need help I can come help shoot them. Not saying I can put them down, but I can give it a hell of a try

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660588 02/03/17 09:40 PM
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I just shoot em in the lungs. Rarely do they drop on the spot, but usually don't get far. For a few years I used 100 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips in my 260. Killed em just fine, but no blood trail. I moved up to the 120 gr and they don't seem to die any faster, but I do get a blood trail on the medium sized ones. My old 270 seemed to drop em faster and messier.

If I was using your 308, I'd likely load up 150 or 165 gr Nosler BT's and keep on shooting em in the lungs.


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660624 02/03/17 10:05 PM
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John,
You think you have gotten some hits? If you truly think Bergers are the right bullets for you then it comes down to whether it is you or the zero on the rifle. Go to the range and verify the zero. That you hit a turkey in the neck at some point in the past isn't relevant at this time. If your rifle is zeroed, then the problem is with you. You will have to work on your shooting skill yourself.

However, you really should consider dumping the Bergers for now and get some ammunition that will penetrate fully. At least then you may get some good blood spray at the point of impact and be able to confirm that you actually hit something.

That you keep doing the same thing (numerous times) and expect different results is insanity, but you can fix it. Hogs are not magical. The hogs you are hunting are not special.


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6660659 02/03/17 10:33 PM
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The rifle is zeroed perfectly. I shot that turkey the previous day, and I shot a deer later that same day.

Bergers have always been good to me - I've taken deer, nilgai, axis, blackbuck, kudu, zebra, blesbok, waterbuck, impala, sable, wildebeest, etc. And even smaller hogs. That being said, the bullet may not be good for exceptionally large hogs. So I take your suggestion seriously. It is hard for me to believe that a 60-70 yard shot from a .308 isn't going to get enough penetration - but hogs have thicker skin that cervids.

I can accept that, under the circumstance, I am rushing the shot and missing optimal placement - I will work on that. smile

It just that - in my experience - even a non-optimal shot will bring most animals down if not too far off. Maybe they run a ways, but they will die. Even if I am really WAY off, and make a gut shot (hard to believe I did that several times - but I guess anything is possible) - the animals die.

All good suggestions and I thank everyone for input - but I guess what I am really asking is (a) am I misjudging where vitals are on big hogs - that is to say, are the heart disproportionally small on super large hogs? Should I be hitting the shoulder proper rather than just behind? and (b) on really big hogs, are the fat/muscle layers exceptionally large so that I need to change caliber or bullet? (c) Can a big hog's skull hard enough to deflect non-fatally a .308 at 200-250 yards?

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660669 02/03/17 10:39 PM
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I should add that I have shot a number of smaller hogs - at distances even greater - and never had this issue. So I am looking for feedback from folks who have shot REALLY big hogs. I cannot stress too much how big some of these hogs are - I've seen lots of folks post pics of "300 pound hogs", but I tell you these dwarf the hogs in those pics. I shot an honest-to-goodness 300 pound hog, and these are easily bigger. To give you an idea, nose to tail - a few of these hogs are 5ft long, maybe a touch longer. How can I be sure of that - because legs of feeder are 6ft apart, and these hogs pretty much fill up that space. Three hogs in a line are wider than the road!

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660683 02/03/17 10:45 PM
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See this hog? - The ones I've been shooting at are a no-brainer bigger. I'm 6 foot and weigh 250




Last edited by John Humbert; 02/03/17 10:58 PM.
Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660722 02/03/17 11:02 PM
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unless you put it on the scale, don't believe what you tell yourself

they're not that big

I've shot a 285 pounder that looks like 350

but I don't trust any guesses - the scale proved otherwise

get a scale and weigh every one of them, your guess will be
better over time , and it's usually under what you thought

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660735 02/03/17 11:16 PM
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The problem is your rifle is too big. You need a 22-250 and use Rem. cor.-lokts
Just kidding..

Didn't someone have a post on that matched the girth of a pig with his weight?

Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6660831 02/04/17 12:44 AM
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Maybe you'll get better results using ammunition that has Hog in the product name or a photo of a Boar on the box - it's specially designed to do exactly what your looking for, kill pigs popcorn

Some options are:

Remington Hog Hammer

Winchester Razorback XT

Hornady Full Boar

Freedom Munitions Boar Buster


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Re: Opinion and Help [Re: John Humbert] #6661291 02/04/17 02:36 PM
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Stop doubting yourself, the answer is simple.
Change bullets.

Pigs are tougher than ANYTHING else in America.
While I witnessed my son accidentally drop one with a Ruger .22 pistol while riding in a VW sandrail, pigs laugh at most anything that works on deer and turkeys.
The bigger they get, the tougher they are.

Remember: If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.


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