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Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings #6403707 08/11/16 05:49 PM
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Mickey Moose Online Content OP
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I could get behind this.

http://www.guns.com/2016/08/11/texas-law...fter-shootings/

A Tea Party Republican intends to introduce a bill that would place civil liability on businesses that ban lawful guns in the event of a patron getting hurt.

The measure, to be introduced in the coming session, would encourage publicly accessible businesses to drop current gun free zones out of fear of potential lawsuits arising after an incident, in effect, declaring one at their own risk and assuming custodial responsibility for their patrons.

...

“Hall’s proposal effectively would use the threat of liability to coerce businesses into allowing guns,” read the op-ed in part. “Shouldn’t the rights of businesses to restrict weapons matter too? Why should a business also be blamed when someone else actually injured customers and created mayhem?"

The last part, bolded quote from the op-ed which is linked, is a gem. I'm sure the Dallas Morning News "Staff Writer" is on board with holding firearms manufacturers liable!

-Mickey


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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6403743 08/11/16 06:08 PM
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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6403822 08/11/16 07:08 PM
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Oh yeah, why should a business be blamed for gun free zones? But they dang sure want firearms manufacturers to be held accountable.


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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6404851 08/12/16 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Superduty
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6407421 08/14/16 01:37 PM
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sounds good to me

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6407465 08/14/16 02:42 PM
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I am a huge gun rights advocate. I am also a very strong believer in private property rights.

Publicly owned places are a different matter, so I would support that approach in those cases.

But I am dead set against even more laws governing how private property is used.


A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Marc K] #6500325 10/18/16 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
I am a huge gun rights advocate. I am also a very strong believer in private property rights.

Publicly owned places are a different matter, so I would support that approach in those cases.

But I am dead set against even more laws governing how private property is used.


Marc, what about private property that is a public place like a movie theater or restaurant?


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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6503501 10/20/16 04:09 AM
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Yup. Whole different ball game when you invite the public in and grant them access. Private property can be kept really private, especially when there's no access to the public.

It'd kinda suck for business use, though.

Most public access businesses have a fire code, handicap law requirements, specialized codes (think health codes for resturants for example), etc. that they have to abide by and even get inspected periodically for.

Create a 'safe space' for some idiot to publicly (and illegally) massacre your customers and you need to be held liable.


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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6503980 10/20/16 04:04 PM
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Wit the businesses using the excuse of "guns make things more dangerous" maybe they should shoulder the liability. The are not allowing people to protect themselves under the premise that they are safe enough and in fact safer without a firearm. It should be on the business to provide the necessary safety requirements since they are implying that their business is safe to enter. I say make them liable, maybe they will take down their signs then. Otherwise it is on them to provide an environment where a nut job can't shoot the place up.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mikel Stephens] #6515025 10/27/16 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mikel Stephens
Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
I am a huge gun rights advocate. I am also a very strong believer in private property rights.

Publicly owned places are a different matter, so I would support that approach in those cases.

But I am dead set against even more laws governing how private property is used.


Marc, what about private property that is a public place like a movie theater or restaurant?


No different than a hardware store, lumber yard, real estate office, etc. Private property is private property.
Owners should have every right to limit what happens on their own property. We may feel differently, but I also feel that:

A private business should be allowed to eject a disruptive customer.
A private business should not be forced to perform a function that they do not believe in.
A private business should have the ability to control it's own future by virtue of their own decisions.

We certainly do not need more laws telling people how to operate their own company.

It is my assertion that the free market should rule. If I do not like the way I am treated at a business - I do not have to spend my money there.

This is an important "core" concept for our country, and discussion is healthy! You are certainly welcome to challenge my assertions.

Respectfully,
Marc


A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6515247 10/28/16 02:08 AM
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I agree a property owner has rights. So do I and 1st and foremost is my right to to defend myself and my family.

If you decide to restrict my right as you are able to do as a property owner, then you become responsible for providing security in that location. Generally, I am charged $'s to be in said location (movie theater, restaurant, etc) so my view is that part of that charge is to provide security since you have told me I cannot defend myself.

I agree there are conflicting rights here but if you choose to restrict my rights but fail to provide adequate security--that is your fault.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: txwildcat] #6515439 10/28/16 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: txwildcat
I agree a property owner has rights. So do I and 1st and foremost is my right to to defend myself and my family.

If you decide to restrict my right as you are able to do as a property owner, then you become responsible for providing security in that location. Generally, I am charged $'s to be in said location (movie theater, restaurant, etc) so my view is that part of that charge is to provide security since you have told me I cannot defend myself.

I agree there are conflicting rights here but if you choose to restrict my rights but fail to provide adequate security--that is your fault.


That has been litigated many times with the overwhelming decisions being that no one forced you to go to a movie theater or a restaurant. You went there on your own free will. This legislation is just government intrusion on the rights of property owners and sadly sounds like something Hillary would come up with. A public place and public property are two completely different things. It's someone else's property.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6515897 10/28/16 04:35 PM
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The whole key is in the thought process of making someone else responsible for one's own safety.


A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Marc K] #6516976 10/29/16 10:50 AM
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I don't pay any attn. to those signs.....I carry everywhere now.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6525174 11/03/16 01:46 PM
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Is the property owner not responsible for any and all injuries that happen on their property now? I thought that is why we buy insurance.


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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6526729 11/04/16 01:36 PM
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I think this starts to go against property rights. Better to just boycott said places.


It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong -Voltaire
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Rockjockey] #6531855 11/08/16 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: Rockjockey
Is the property owner not responsible for any and all injuries that happen on their property now? I thought that is why we buy insurance.


Indeed another fine example of the type of thinking behind the proposed law. Someone else is always responsible, other than oneself.


A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Marc K] #6539340 11/11/16 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
Originally Posted By: Mikel Stephens
Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
I am a huge gun rights advocate. I am also a very strong believer in private property rights.

Publicly owned places are a different matter, so I would support that approach in those cases.

But I am dead set against even more laws governing how private property is used.


Marc, what about private property that is a public place like a movie theater or restaurant?


No different than a hardware store, lumber yard, real estate office, etc. Private property is private property.
Owners should have every right to limit what happens on their own property. We may feel differently, but I also feel that:

A private business should be allowed to eject a disruptive customer.
A private business should not be forced to perform a function that they do not believe in.
A private business should have the ability to control it's own future by virtue of their own decisions.

We certainly do not need more laws telling people how to operate their own company.

It is my assertion that the free market should rule. If I do not like the way I am treated at a business - I do not have to spend my money there.

This is an important "core" concept for our country, and discussion is healthy! You are certainly welcome to challenge my assertions.

Respectfully,
Marc


I agree...

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Marc K] #6539410 11/11/16 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
Originally Posted By: Mikel Stephens
Originally Posted By: Marc in Bastrop
I am a huge gun rights advocate. I am also a very strong believer in private property rights.

Publicly owned places are a different matter, so I would support that approach in those cases.

But I am dead set against even more laws governing how private property is used.


Marc, what about private property that is a public place like a movie theater or restaurant?


No different than a hardware store, lumber yard, real estate office, etc. Private property is private property.
Owners should have every right to limit what happens on their own property. We may feel differently, but I also feel that:

A private business should be allowed to eject a disruptive customer.
A private business should not be forced to perform a function that they do not believe in.
A private business should have the ability to control it's own future by virtue of their own decisions.

We certainly do not need more laws telling people how to operate their own company.

It is my assertion that the free market should rule. If I do not like the way I am treated at a business - I do not have to spend my money there.

This is an important "core" concept for our country, and discussion is healthy! You are certainly welcome to challenge my assertions.

Respectfully,
Marc


Agreed, and to this I also add smoking. Smoking is a disgusting habit that I am glad I was able to quit, but if a land owner (I didn't say business owner because if the building is leased the owner should be the one to make this rule) wants to allow smoking they should be able to. Now I say this about private property, even ones that have public business's on them. Bars, restaurants so forth. Let the customer decide if they want to spend money there or not. Let the customer decide if they want to go to a business that does not allow guns. I don't go anywhere they will not let me carry.


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www.acscott.com
Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: dperk23] #6539439 11/11/16 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: dperk23
I think this starts to go against property rights. Better to just boycott said places.


I agree.

Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Choctaw] #6569891 12/03/16 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: Choctaw
Originally Posted By: dperk23
I think this starts to go against property rights. Better to just boycott said places.


I agree.


Same here, if I'm not allowed to carry, which is their right. I don't enter, which is my right..


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Re: Texas lawmaker wants those with gun free zones held liable after shootings [Re: Mickey Moose] #6570463 12/04/16 03:36 AM
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The bill has been filed, along with about 36 others.


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