texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,416
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,021
Posts9,719,488
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
A possible solution to "top hat" bucks #6521730 11/01/16 05:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Much has been shared about how the current AR's protect what some might call "Top Hat" bucks, these being older bucks with tall, narrow racks that don't satisfy the 13-inch rule. They are bucks at the same age (or even older) as their wider racked peers that now qualify for harvest.

Since a buck's brow tines (G1's) typically grow longer with age, perhaps the current AR's could be updated in the future to allow hunters to take ANY buck with brow tines of a minimum length.

Such a rule update might also result in hunters being able to judge mature bucks as being legal more quickly.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 11/01/16 07:13 PM.

"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6521744 11/01/16 05:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,821
P
PMK Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
P
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,821
guessing that second paragraph first sentence should have been "Since a buck's brow tines (G1's) typically grow LONGER (NOT older) with age,"???

the place I have out near Ozona (non-AR county) would be the reverse of an AR rule ... lots of mature bucks without or very minimal G1 (brow tine, dog catcher, etc.) ...

Last edited by PMK; 11/01/16 05:44 PM.

"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."

~PMK~
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6521882 11/01/16 07:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
P
pegasaurus Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
P
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
TPWD says the antlers are supposed to grow wider with age but that doesn't always happen either.


Funny thing about getting older:
Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to
see through people's BS gets much better.
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: PMK] #6521887 11/01/16 07:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Originally Posted By: PMK
guessing that second paragraph first sentence should have been "Since a buck's brow tines (G1's) typically grow LONGER (NOT older) with age,"???


Good catch!


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6521891 11/01/16 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
P
postoak Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
P
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,124
How about you can shoot any buck if you are sure it is at least 3.5 years old. If you are wrong then you have to pay a fine.


Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6522042 11/01/16 08:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,512
R
rickym Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,512
I think for 5 years they should change to the 4 on one side rule and then switch back to current ar rules.



Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: postoak] #6522064 11/01/16 09:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Originally Posted By: postoak
How about you can shoot any buck if you are sure it is at least 3.5 years old. If you are wrong then you have to pay a fine.


I could go with that.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: rickym] #6522066 11/01/16 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Originally Posted By: rickym
I think for 5 years they should change to the 4 on one side rule and then switch back to current ar rules.


This would not protect the younger basket-racked bucks we need to protect most.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6522092 11/01/16 09:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
K
krmitchell Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
K
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,682
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: rickym
I think for 5 years they should change to the 4 on one side rule and then switch back to current ar rules.


This would not protect the younger basket-racked bucks we need to protect most.


Nope, but it would knock out some of the genetics for high and tight racks.

Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: krmitchell] #6522114 11/01/16 09:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,512
R
rickym Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,512
Originally Posted By: rexmitchell
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: rickym
I think for 5 years they should change to the 4 on one side rule and then switch back to current ar rules.


This would not protect the younger basket-racked bucks we need to protect most.


Nope, but it would knock out some of the genetics for high and tight racks.


Exactly, nothin is gonna be perfect. You cant expect everyone out there to be able to judge age so that wont work. Everyone can count, and for a short period you could get rid of alot of your mature deer that will never make 13" and stop them from breeding. I doubt as many young promising deer would get shot as you think if they opened it up to shoot all those big narrow racked bucks.



Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6522151 11/01/16 09:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,612
I think the 'top hat' bucks are an over-blown problem. Are there some? Sure, I believe it, but hunters from those areas would have you believe they're under every rock and behind every bush. If the problem is as regional as suggested, maybe they should do a test scenario on a few counties and see what happens.

If you allow 3.5 yr old bucks to be shot, you're going to get a whole bunch of burly 2.5 yr old deer killed by guys that have no idea or don't care.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #6522538 11/02/16 12:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
If the problem is as regional as suggested, maybe they should do a test scenario on a few counties and see what happens.


Without a mechanism in place (outside of LAMP-managed properties) so that hunters can report harvest data, there's no way to detect if high-grading is occurring.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: pegasaurus] #6522701 11/02/16 02:11 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
C
Curly Offline
Overrated
Offline
Overrated
C
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 20,366
Originally Posted By: pegasaurus
TPWD says the antlers are supposed to grow wider with age but that doesn't always happen either.



preach!

Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6522918 11/02/16 09:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,582
D
decook Online Content
Extreme Tracker
Online Content
Extreme Tracker
D
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,582
I think TPWD should allow a "field tag" for non AR deer in addition to your deer tag. Call it an AR tag. The hunter should have to provide a photo to either a warden or a TPWD biologist who makes the call based on the picture. To keep it honest, there should also be a check in after the shot.

I don't think there is a better way to make ARs work then this - there has to be some exception process to the hard rule that makes up for mother nature's exceptions.

Last edited by decook; 11/02/16 09:56 AM. Reason: spelling

Press [Linked Image] for an AMERICAN.
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #6522937 11/02/16 10:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,209
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
I think the 'top hat' bucks are an over-blown problem.


Ironically, the claim by those who are most opposed to AR's would support this. According to them, you can't change the genetic makeup of the herd on LF settings through selective harvesting. If that's true, then it's impossible to high grade or shoot the width out of the deer in a given area.

In the end, it would seem what is most important on LAMPS managed properties, is that these "top hat" bucks be allowed to walk, just as they are everywhere else where AR's are in place. Otherwise, evidence of high grading will never be confirmed.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Texas Dan] #6522941 11/02/16 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 165
C
CTR Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 165
I think TPWD should stay at a minimum from making decisions for me. The less rules to operate under the better. They could do away with the rule and I'd be fine... To me it's silly just like steel shot... Or 3 in the tube...

Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: CTR] #6523093 11/02/16 12:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
D
Deerhunter61 Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,806
Originally Posted By: CTR
I think TPWD should stay at a minimum from making decisions for me. The less rules to operate under the better. They could do away with the rule and I'd be fine... To me it's silly just like steel shot... Or 3 in the tube...


I wonder how old you are...and I'm not being disrespectful! I grew up hunting the piney woods on timber land before it leased it to the state. And frankly back then we were lucky to see a deer with antlers. When Type II came about it took all of one year to utterly destroy what little opportunity was there on the timber land. People who didn't know about the land before came in like hordes...I hunted it the first year on opening weekend and had 5 shots zip by me before 9am....I scurried down my lean to and sat at the bottom of the stand until about 10:30 and then went to camp, packed and headed home. Back then the "brown it's down" was utterly true. The idea that hunters can and will be responsible and let deer walk is simply wishful thinking. Without the AR restrictions in some of these counties you would experience what I used to experience...and that was if you "saw" a DOE you had a successful weekend of deer hunting. There is simply no good way to manage the deer herd...and limiting the number of bucks thru tags does not work! Because if it's brown it's down still exists! So for all of its problems the ARs are still the most effective way to protect the buck herd. And now you actually have a chance to see a buck when you go to the woods.

Last edited by Deerhunter61; 11/02/16 12:57 PM.
Re: A possible solution to "top hat" bucks [Re: Deerhunter61] #6523114 11/02/16 01:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 165
C
CTR Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
C
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 165
Originally Posted By: Deerhunter61
Originally Posted By: CTR
I think TPWD should stay at a minimum from making decisions for me. The less rules to operate under the better. They could do away with the rule and I'd be fine... To me it's silly just like steel shot... Or 3 in the tube...


I wonder how old you are...and I'm not being disrespectful! I grew up hunting the piney woods on timber land before it leased it to the state. And frankly back then we were lucky to see a deer with antlers. When Type II came about it took all of one year to utterly destroy what little opportunity was there on the timber land. People who didn't know about the land before came in like hordes...I hunted it the first year on opening weekend and had 5 shots zip by me before 9am....I scurried down my lean to and sat at the bottom of the stand until about 10:30 and then went to camp, packed and headed home. Back then the "brown it's down" was utterly true. The idea that hunters can and will be responsible and let deer walk is simply wishful thinking. Without the AR restrictions in some of these counties you would experience what I used to experience...and that was if you "saw" a DOE you had a successful weekend of deer hunting. There is simply no good way to manage the deer herd...and limiting the number of bucks thru tags does not work! Because if it's brown it's down still exists! So for all of its problems the ARs are still the most effective way to protect the buck herd. And now you actually have a chance to see a buck when you go to the woods.


Im pushin 50, my experience differs from yours. Im not saying the program doesn't work, just saying the less gov the happier I am... food

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3