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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6348331
06/26/16 07:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,825
poisonivie
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 7,825 |
Even with 15/16's, there will be the occasional cropouts with throwback tendencies. I've seen it breeding Boer goats with Spanish. I think ya'll have done a great job with these and would be proud to take one. Sadly, it's probably not in my budget.
Pee on Photobucket
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6348471
06/26/16 09:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 478
TB338
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 478 |
How many more species is Texas going to TARD UP !!!
Wild Rams in there true environment are so Majestic ...
DEATHBY416
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: LuckyHunter]
#6348518
06/26/16 10:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,905
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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Texastrophy85 All I can say is the mane blends better than the pictures appear. There are so many more features to compare when you are actually holding one. To answer your question ....They will only get better.  Even the appearance of a white saddle patch which appears on the original post pictures is not white. It is a brownish gray running closer to the desert color. The front end is running darker but underneath the overall colors are starting to turn the corner. Weight guess...175. They are tall and long. In that pic, the main isn't nearly as pronounced. It's a good looking ram no doubt
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: TB338]
#6348793
06/27/16 01:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,833
sparrish8
Pro Tracker
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How many more species is Texas going to TARD UP !!!
Wild Rams in there true environment are so Majestic ... Unfortunately most North American sheep are out of 90% of American hunters price range and means to hunt
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: sparrish8]
#6349166
06/27/16 02:43 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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How many more species is Texas going to TARD UP !!!
Wild Rams in there true environment are so Majestic ... Unfortunately most North American sheep are out of 90% of American hunters price range and means to hunt It's not a matter of money, much of the desert bighorns original range, now has resevoirs of old world sheep diseases that are deadly to the desert bighorn. The choice is between a hybrid or no sheep, the program is aimed at producing a near duplicate of the native sheep, with resistance to the old world sheep diseases.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: nsmike]
#6350731
06/28/16 08:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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How many more species is Texas going to TARD UP !!!
Wild Rams in there true environment are so Majestic ... Unfortunately most North American sheep are out of 90% of American hunters price range and means to hunt It's not a matter of money, much of the desert bighorns original range, now has resevoirs of old world sheep diseases that are deadly to the desert bighorn. The choice is between a hybrid or no sheep, the program is aimed at producing a near duplicate of the native sheep, with resistance to the old world sheep diseases. "The choice is between a hybrid or no sheep." Uhh, no, it's not. Overall, the desert bighorn sheep herd is in excellent shape - and getting better by the year. More sheep in more of their original range than at anytime since the turn of the 20th century. Desert sheep are in no danger of extinction. It may be a money issue, but it's not a conservation issue.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6350829
06/28/16 09:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,012
Kimber1911
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One thing I want to make clear these sheep are in a High Fence Ranch and will not interbreed with the wild bighorn.
We want to be able to get more people to be able to kill a close to possible pure bred Desert Bighorn for a considerably lower price.
Let's face it the cost of Desert Bighorn hunts are way out of people's price range.
So We are trying to have big good looking sheep for a great price is all.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6350895
06/28/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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Robert I understand your ranches aim. This is taken from here http://www.ndow.org/uploadedFiles/ndowor...gement_plan.pdf Disease Bighorn sheep have been known to experience periodic epizootics resulting in wide fluctuations in population levels (Buechner 1960). Recently, these epizootics have been diagnosed as pneumonia-related epidemics (Onderka and Wishart 1984; Coggins 1988; Festa_Bianchet 1988; Cassirer et al.1996; Ward et al. 1997). The Division recognizes the inherent susceptibility of bighorns to certain disease agents such as Pasteurella. Attempts to vaccinate bighorn sheep to combat this disease have been unsuccessful (Cassirer et al. 2001). The original purpose of the A&M breeding program was to try and breed resitance into desert bighorns. I undertand that, with the current recovery situation they may never be released into the wild, but the original intent of the program was to produce disease resistant sheep.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6351047
06/29/16 01:48 AM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 39
neverguess
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 39 |
If we want more bighorns we should allow guys like Kimber1911 to breed and sell them for hunts behind fences. Like everything else, we would have more of them. Other purebreds are hunted behind fences, why not pure sheep?
Last edited by neverguess; 06/29/16 01:50 AM.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: neverguess]
#6351078
06/29/16 02:19 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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If we want more bighorns we should allow guys like Kimber1911 to breed and sell them for hunts behind fences. Like everything else, we would have more of them. Other purebreds are hunted behind fences, why not pure sheep? I know of two for rocky mountain bighorn and believe there is at least one in Mexico for desert bighorn. All I said was that the original purpose of the A&M program was to breed a disease resistant sheep. If a ranch has other sheep it will be very difficult to raise desert bighorn.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: neverguess]
#6351141
06/29/16 03:22 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,012
Kimber1911
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If we want more bighorns we should allow guys like Kimber1911 to breed and sell them for hunts behind fences. Like everything else, we would have more of them. Other purebreds are hunted behind fences, why not pure sheep? Unfortunately the state would not allow that. On the other hand I do offer Free Range Bighorn hunts in Mexico and I also offer hunts on late H/F ranch.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: nsmike]
#6351142
06/29/16 03:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,012
Kimber1911
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If we want more bighorns we should allow guys like Kimber1911 to breed and sell them for hunts behind fences. Like everything else, we would have more of them. Other purebreds are hunted behind fences, why not pure sheep? I know of two for rocky mountain bighorn and believe there is at least one in Mexico for desert bighorn. All I said was that the original purpose of the A&M program was to breed a disease resistant sheep. If a ranch has other sheep it will be very difficult to raise desert bighorn. I agree with you for the reason why they were even doing it. You can see a few of my above post that talks about why Texas A&M was doing it. We are well aware and we are some of the main people doing this research.
Last edited by Kimber1911; 06/29/16 03:25 AM.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6351632
06/29/16 03:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,205
LuckyHunter
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Since the individual removed their attack post. I removed my response.
Thanks Tony
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6351705
06/29/16 04:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 185
jhprice2
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 185 |
i like the mountain lion pose you chose
nice elk as well....which state produced him
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6352332
06/30/16 12:40 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,985
TonyinVA
Pro Tracker
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How did this post about a hunt become a debate about high fence and breeding animals? Unfortunate.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6352806
06/30/16 11:53 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,950
don k
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I figure I might as well get into this as I know squat about Sheep. NP has stated that the Native American Sheep are doing better.That could be true and probably is. Maybe one reason for that is that animals are made to adapt to changes. If they don't they become extinct. Sheep that can not tolerate the same parasites as domesticated sheep can and will die. Those that can will have offspring that also can. Breeding wild Sheep to increase their tolerance for parasites may or may not work. Those Sheep have probably been pampered and given drugs-medicines or what ever you want to call it to kill or prevent parasite problems. Once back in the wild they will not get the same treatment. Also from what I have seen with raising Ibex is that the closer you get to pure the more problems you have. Maybe it will be the same with the wild Sheep. They may breed out some of the traits that make them intolerant of parasites but then as they become more pure again the intolerance will return. Food for thought.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6353135
06/30/16 03:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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There was no "attack" post. Just setting the record straight that pen-raised hybrids are not and never will be the only chance or even choice for conservation of wild mountain desert bighorn sheep. As was stated by the "The only choice is between hybrid and no sheep" statement. One has nothing to do with the other from a conservation standpoint. They are not even the same animal.
That was my only point and my only response to this thread. Nothing else.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: don k]
#6353143
06/30/16 04:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I figure I might as well get into this as I know squat about Sheep. NP has stated that the Native American Sheep are doing better.That could be true and probably is. Maybe one reason for that is that animals are made to adapt to changes. If they don't they become extinct. Sheep that can not tolerate the same parasites as domesticated sheep can and will die. Those that can will have offspring that also can. Breeding wild Sheep to increase their tolerance for parasites may or may not work. Those Sheep have probably been pampered and given drugs-medicines or what ever you want to call it to kill or prevent parasite problems. Once back in the wild they will not get the same treatment. Also from what I have seen with raising Ibex is that the closer you get to pure the more problems you have. Maybe it will be the same with the wild Sheep. They may breed out some of the traits that make them intolerant of parasites but then as they become more pure again the intolerance will return. Food for thought. Right now, wild native sheep are susceptible to respiratory diseases carried by domestic sheep. Therefore, the only current method of protection for wild herds is separation from domestic sheep and/or eradication of wild sheep herds that have been infected by contact with domestic sheep herds. Research is ongoing to see if immunity can be established to respiratory diseases in wild sheep. This has not yet borne fruit - but may in the future. That is the goal.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6353157
06/30/16 04:16 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
THF Trophy Hunter
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NP you misconstrued what I said, I'll rephrase it, in those parts of the desert bighorn range infested with old world sheep diseases, you'll need to have hybrids, because of the lack of disease tolerence in the native bighorn. That's the whole point of the breeding program. I never said that they should or will be released.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: nsmike]
#6353182
06/30/16 04:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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NP you misconstrued what I said, I'll rephrase it, in those parts of the desert bighorn range infested with old world sheep diseases, you'll need to have hybrids, because of the lack of disease tolerence in the native bighorn. That's the whole point of the breeding program. I never said that they should or will be released. Thank you for that clarification. I can see that research with domestic and/or hybrids may be helpful in developing an effective immunization protocol for wild sheep. I certainly hope it is.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: TonyinVA]
#6353186
06/30/16 04:34 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,205
LuckyHunter
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How did this post about a hunt become a debate about high fence and breeding animals? Unfortunate. The very reason it's better to stay off THF. I just wanted to share. No more.
Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6353203
06/30/16 04:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I don't debate the HF issue and all that goes with that debate here on the exotics forum. Since it's legal and practiced and this is the forum to discuss it specifically, I feel it would not be courteous to do so.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6353226
06/30/16 04:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,205
LuckyHunter
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Repost the the one you deleted then.
Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: LuckyHunter]
#6353241
06/30/16 04:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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Repost the the one you deleted then. I didn't delete anything sir. Apparently someone who read something in it that wasn't there did. It's a sensitive issue around here, you know.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Rocky Mt. Bighorn Hybrid Hunts.
[Re: Kimber1911]
#6353248
06/30/16 05:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,205
LuckyHunter
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Must have been Hillary.
Last edited by SheepHunter; 06/30/16 05:07 PM.
Lucky 7 Exotic Ranch located in Eden, Tx. Well managed self sustaining herds roaming our 3,000 acre ranch. First Class Lodging, Ranch style meals and qualified guides. 30+ species.
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