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Mar 25th, 2012
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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138605 01/16/16 05:56 PM
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Supposedly, he was goose hunting. Lot of differences between a crane and a goose.
http://theexaminer.com/stories/news/local-teen-faces-federal-charges-whooping-crane-killings

http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/trey-josep...-facebook-page/

Apparently, Trey doesn't agree with the law either, though he did agree to abide by the law with his hunting license.
https://www.everipedia.com/trey-joseph-frederick/


Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138611 01/16/16 06:05 PM
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Goose hunting with a rifle? Sounds like he wantonly shot two cranes and deserves whatever he gets.

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: TexFlip] #6138705 01/16/16 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: TexFlip
Goose hunting with a rifle? Sounds like he wantonly shot two cranes and deserves whatever he gets.


I'm guessing the rifle part is either because the witnesses didn't know it was a shotgun or the author of the Examiner article doesn't know the difference. Based on pictures and info in those links, he appears to be an avid hunter, so I'm guessing he wasn't using a rifle.

That also leads me to believe he knew the difference between a crane and a goose and it was not an honest mistake.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6138706 01/16/16 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Supposedly, he was goose hunting. Lot of differences between a crane and a goose.
http://theexaminer.com/stories/news/local-teen-faces-federal-charges-whooping-crane-killings

http://heavy.com/news/2016/01/trey-josep...-facebook-page/

Apparently, Trey doesn't agree with the law either, though he did agree to abide by the law with his hunting license.
https://www.everipedia.com/trey-joseph-frederick/


Thanks for posting those.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138835 01/16/16 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Based on pictures and info in those links, he appears to be an avid hunter, so I'm guessing he wasn't using a rifle.

That also leads me to believe he knew the difference between a crane and a goose and it was not an honest mistake.


Well,he has been hunting for years, very avid by all accounts.

So is it reasonable to assume he could confuse a goose for a crane? I dunno. Cranes stand right at 5 feet tall on the ground and have a wingspan of about 7.5 feet. It is the tallest bird in North America, very long, with a very different beak, head, neck, and body shape than a goose that is shorter, smaller wing span, and of which most varieties are not white.


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138866 01/16/16 10:39 PM
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Maybe he doesn't know what a crane looks like, but a goose hunter knows what a goose looks like. That ain't no goose.


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138882 01/16/16 10:52 PM
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It doesn't matter. He killed two whooping cranes. He is going to pay the going price. The going price for killing two whooping cranes is high. The going price is not a secret. It has never been a secret.

Moral of this story: be d*** sure what you are shooting at before you shoot it.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: scalebuster] #6138897 01/16/16 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: scalebuster
Originally Posted By: dawaba
Originally Posted By: 2Beez
$$$$$ this one will cost. Sad deal for the whoopers


+1. A $15,000 fine and 6 mos in Federal prison will make a deep impression on an 18-yr-old. That said, the maximum sentence appears too lenient to me.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.



I think 6 months of a mans life for killing two birds is ridiculous. Endangered or not they're still just birds.
just the opposite, should be at least a yr & 25,000


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6138900 01/16/16 11:03 PM
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Anyone have any idea what the restitution fee is for a dead whooping crane? Two years ago, I got my only ticket from a GW for possessing one dove too many. Restitution on that dove was $160.

I'm thinking that restitution on the cranes could very well exceed the $15,000 fine for shooting them.


"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple.....and wrong." H. L. Mencken
Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6138906 01/16/16 11:05 PM
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most fresh water fish restitution is 250.


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: Double Naught Spy] #6139067 01/17/16 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: Double Naught Spy
Quote:
Based on pictures and info in those links, he appears to be an avid hunter, so I'm guessing he wasn't using a rifle.

That also leads me to believe he knew the difference between a crane and a goose and it was not an honest mistake.


Well,he has been hunting for years, very avid by all accounts.

So is it reasonable to assume he could confuse a goose for a crane? I dunno. Cranes stand right at 5 feet tall on the ground and have a wingspan of about 7.5 feet. It is the tallest bird in North America, very long, with a very different beak, head, neck, and body shape than a goose that is shorter, smaller wing span, and of which most varieties are not white.


I should have been more sarcastic in my last sentence. He knows the difference between a crane and a goose.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6139154 01/17/16 01:23 AM
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He was in deep dooo dooo and he knew it when he pulled the trigger...twice.



Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6139259 01/17/16 02:16 AM
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I think this kid will get what's coming to him. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. In my opinion if you choose to hunt you should obey the rules and regulations. They are there for a reason whether you agree or not! If your unsure of the identity of an animal....it's simple.....don't pull the trigger! If you choose to do so anyways. Face the consequences. It's foolish acts like this that do nothing but damage hunters reputations and fuel animosity against us!

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: dawaba] #6140424 01/18/16 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
Anyone have any idea what the restitution fee is for a dead whooping crane? Two years ago, I got my only ticket from a GW for possessing one dove too many. Restitution on that dove was $160.

I'm thinking that restitution on the cranes could very well exceed the $15,000 fine for shooting them.


$160 for a dove..... GW should have been wearing a mask in that drive by.....

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: JRR] #6140824 01/18/16 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: JRR
who cares


A lot of people do, especially in my neck of the woods.

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6140826 01/18/16 06:23 AM
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Photo taken a few miles from my house, (I did not take photo). Love to hear them/see them flying overhead, but doesn't happen very often. They are few and far between.

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: Spacemonkey] #6141899 01/18/16 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Spacemonkey
I think this kid will get what's coming to him. I don't feel sorry for him one bit. In my opinion if you choose to hunt you should obey the rules and regulations. They are there for a reason whether you agree or not! If your unsure of the identity of an animal....it's simple.....don't pull the trigger! If you choose to do so anyways. Face the consequences. It's foolish acts like this that do nothing but damage hunters reputations and fuel animosity against us!


Exactly!

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: skinnerback] #6141912 01/18/16 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Photo taken a few miles from my house, (I did not take photo). Love to hear them/see them flying overhead, but doesn't happen very often. They are few and far between.


Cool picture...


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: dawaba] #6143238 01/19/16 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: dawaba
Anyone have any idea what the restitution fee is for a dead whooping crane? Two years ago, I got my only ticket from a GW for possessing one dove too many. Restitution on that dove was $160. I'm thinking that restitution on the cranes could very well exceed the $15,000 fine for shooting them.


Why is it such a serious crime to kill a Whooper? If you find yourself wondering why the penalties and fines for killing a Whooping Crane donít make any sense youíre not alone. Most attempt to compared penalties game wardens hand out for other violations but the logic falls apart because thereís no comparison to any other actual violation to base rational logic on. Hereís some food for thought that might shed some light on this topic.

To put this in perspective, when one wild whooper out of the Aransas -Wood Buffalo population is killed, itís equivalent to a single poacher killing approximately 30,000 mallards. This assumes there are an estimated 9 million mallards compared to only 300 whoopers in the wild.

In this case two whoopers were killed. Now that you have at least an example of a comparable crime to relate to, what do you think fair justice would be for someone that shoots 60,000 mallards? Chew on that for a moment.

For those with the, "...it's just a bird" mindset, could you still say with a straight face, "...jail time, but he only killed 60,000 mallards?"

Now consider the fact whoopers are critically endangered with only 150 adult breeding pairs in the wild Aransas-Wood Buffalo population. Losing even one to hunting is actually much more significant than losing 60,000 mallards since one storm could wipe out the entire population of remaining breeding whoopers. The only hope for the whooper population to rebound to sustainable numbers is continued aggressive conservation.

Shooting a whooping crane is a federal violation of the Endangered Species Act. Violators face up to a year in jail and possible fines up to $250,000.00. Itís also a violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. In recent years a hunter in South Dakota that intentionally took a Whooper with a rifle was fined over $80,000 while a hunter in Texas paid $15,000 for his mistake.

To specifically answer the above restitution question, the basis for fines is tied to the cost to raise one captive whooping crane to adulthood. Court documents report this cost currently to be $100,000.

There is never an excuse that stands up when a whooper gets shot on their wintering grounds in Texas. How can there be when the entire region of Texas where they winter never has an open crane season? All hunters are spoon fed Whooper 101 in Hunters Education. Regardless, all hunters are responsible for the consequence of pulling the trigger. If it's too dark, too foggy, or you just donít know what youíre shooting at - donít pull the trigger. Itís as simple as that.

In this case, after the the 18 year old kid was tracked down, he admitted to shooting the whoopers. Even though he is only 18 he states on social media that he has been duck hunting for 16 years and claims he went on his first duck hunt when he was only 2. The kid may be young but he is avid and experienced duck and goose hunter; born and raised in an area where everyone knows Whoopers are critically endangered.

On social media his favorite quote is, ďIf it flies - it dies.Ē On Twitter he showed his irreverence and ignorance when he reflects on doing possible jail time for his crime. He referred to the whooper as, ď... just a blank birdĒ but instead of "blank" he took the Lord's name in vain. In a failed attempt at damage control, he was more apologetic in other tweets.

While the above gives us some insight into his character, it doesnít really matter one way or the other. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for the consequences that arise from the free will decision to pull the trigger.

Next time you hear about a whooper getting shot and your buddy is struggling to understand why someone is going to jail or paying a large fine, ask him what would be fair if the shooter killed 30,000 mallards. Hope this helps put some perspective on the subject.

Blue Moon

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6143250 01/19/16 06:05 PM
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^^^ Well said, buddy!!! Good perspective!


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6143268 01/19/16 06:10 PM
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Yeah, that certainly does put things in perspective. Well done.


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6143329 01/19/16 06:41 PM
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I don't have an issue with the penalty. I don't have an issue the arguments that saving these animals is worth while, although I don't know I'm in that corner. I do have an issue with taxpayer monies being used to do it. $100 grand to raise each bird to adult status is ridiculous. Just think if we invested that money into people or even left it in the pockets of the taxpayers. The vast majority of which have no idea, nor care, what a Whooping Crane is.


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Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: skinnerback] #6143363 01/19/16 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Photo taken a few miles from my house, (I did not take photo). Love to hear them/see them flying overhead, but doesn't happen very often. They are few and far between.



That is an awesome picture

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: passthru] #6182698 02/14/16 12:54 PM
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Update - there is evidence emerging that the defendant told friends earlier in the day he was going to go shoot Whooping Cranes, so this was a deliberate and intentional act if proven.

Sorry, that is not an innocent hunter, but someone deliberately violating game laws. What would folks do if he snuck on your hunting lease and shot the biggest deer on the property, and out of season too?

Re: 2 More Whooping Cranes shot? [Re: krmitchell] #6182700 02/14/16 01:02 PM
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Based on the information from Blue Moon, it would be more like the "hunter" wandering around the state on everyone's leases, shooting hundreds/thousands of the biggest bucks. There are millions of dollars spent on deer in Texas every year... couldn't that be used for people, too?

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