Turtles would be fun to shoot with them

I've had more hunters have "dead" deer get up and run off with 300 mags than any small caliber.

For two reasons IMO:

1. I believe small caliber hunters put more effort in shot placement.

2. Backstrap or just below the backbone shots from large calibers drop the deer in their tracks, and the large caliber hunters are too confident of their guns killing ability so they don't put in another round on the ground. Those "dead" deer get up and run off while they are climbing out of the blind or on the walk up.

I think another contributing factor is that many think higher weight and premium controlled expansion bullets "hit harder" so they use elk bullets on smallish whitetails and the result is that the bullets don't have enough resistance to expand well.

I usually shoot hi-point of the shoulder and want to hit bone. Never lost a deer yet with a 55 grain PSP Remington and that shot. If they do not drop, I still have found with that combo exit wound or not.

You have been extremely lucky IMO.

Like I said, I'm not up for an argument. Perhaps the laws of physics bend to your will. IDK.

Then I have been extremely lucky on a lot of shots on deer with a .223

So therancher and DonK, do you guys encourage .223s for your hunters?

Just surprised to hear you advocate that intentionally aiming for the shoulder blade on a deer with a small frangible bullet is ideal shot placement. That's all.

I have always told people to shoot the caliber you are most comfortable with and shoot the shot they are capable of making. That confidence will show in their shooting ability. When they ask me about placement I always ask if they can hit the hi-point of the shoulder shot. If they have never shot that shot, then I ask them to take the shot they are most comfortable with. After I watch them shoot at the range, I then base how close I need to get them a shot on a hunt.
No matter what rifle I am shooting be it my .223, 6mm, .270 or .280 I will always take the hi-point of the shoulder shot. I know where to hit the deer at that shot placement and what the shot does to deer with all the calibers I listed. The bullet I choose for each will allow me to make that shot. For each caliber I have limits on range and placement of the shot. If I cannot place it where I want then I wait till I can my prefered shot or get closer. I am and have never have been a long range shooter. I know my limits. If I am in a blind my range is a bit better than if I shoot off of sticks. My shot placement will still be the same though how ever I am hunting.

I have witnessed to many over-calibered shooters make poor shot choices because in their mind they had enough gun/bullet combo to make the shot.

I have always told people to shoot the caliber you are most comfortable with and shoot the shot they are capable of making. That confidence will show in their shooting ability. When they ask me about placement I always ask if they can hit the hi-point of the shoulder shot. If they have never shot that shot, then I ask them to take the shot they are most comfortable with. After I watch them shoot at the range, I then base how close I need to get them a shot on a hunt.
No matter what rifle I am shooting be it my .223, 6mm, .270 or .280 I will always take the hi-point of the shoulder shot. I know where to hit the deer at that shot placement and what the shot does to deer with all the calibers I listed. The bullet I choose for each will allow me to make that shot. For each caliber I have limits on range and placement of the shot. If I cannot place it where I want then I wait till I can my prefered shot or get closer. I am and have never have been a long range shooter. I know my limits. If I am in a blind my range is a bit better than if I shoot off of sticks. My shot placement will still be the same though how ever I am hunting.

I have witnessed to many over-calibered shooters make poor shot choices because in their mind they had enough gun/bullet combo to make the shot.