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Force Fetch #6026244 11/12/15 11:10 PM
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I've gotten a lot of great advice and knowledge on here so far.

In your opinion, what training/conditioning needs to be complete before you start force fetch?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026281 11/12/15 11:31 PM
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Pointing breed or just retrieving?


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026286 11/12/15 11:34 PM
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On a lab, just retrieving.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026351 11/13/15 12:08 AM
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The dog should have its adult teeth.

Should show some enthusiasm for retrieving.

Should be collar conditioned.

Basic obedience.

A good relationship with its handler/owner.


Originally Posted By: Fooshman
I'll take a Black Female every time.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026389 11/13/15 12:28 AM
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What if you have no intention of using a collar? Define basic OB. Sit, heel, here, give????


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026426 11/13/15 12:53 AM
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And if a dog already brings the down bird to you, is the Force Fetch needed?

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026460 11/13/15 01:17 AM
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My dog will bring anything back but force fetch is supposed to clean up a lot of issues with dropping birds before delivering to hand, being mouthy with the bird during retrieve, and several other bad habits they can acquire. I think it depends on how demanding you are going to be of your dog from what I have researched. If done properly, the dog is not supposed to release a bird or dummy... or anything you tell it to fetch until it is told to release.

I'm going to start mine on force fetch in about two months, he'll be around 8 months then.

Seems like one of the more difficult parts to training though, so I wanted to get some words of wisdom on it first :-)

Re: Force Fetch [Re: passthru] #6026465 11/13/15 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: passthru
What if you have no intention of using a collar? Define basic OB. Sit, heel, here, give????


I will jump in here.

There is no need for a collar. You can use an ear pinch or a toe pinch.

"Give" will be part of your "trained retrieve"/"force fetch" training.


Regards,

Jay
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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026481 11/13/15 01:26 AM
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So in very basic form the goal is to use pressure (ear pinch) until the dog takes the training tool in his mouth, immediately release the pressure when the dog secures the training tool, while assisting him to secure it at first, then command "give", then keep repeating the process until the dog understands to hold the object until directed to release it?

I know there is more to it than that, but in a nutshell that seems like the process.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: Catch Dog] #6026493 11/13/15 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted By: Catch Dog
And if a dog already brings the down bird to you, is the Force Fetch needed?


No, it is not, especially if your gun dog is retrieving various game well, and you are pleased. It is just another level of training and part of standard path to a fully finished gun dog (retriever or pointer).


Regards,

Jay
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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026510 11/13/15 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: hunting_guy
My dog will bring anything back but force fetch is supposed to clean up a lot of issues with dropping birds before delivering to hand, being mouthy with the bird during retrieve, and several other bad habits they can acquire. I think it depends on how demanding you are going to be of your dog from what I have researched. If done properly, the dog is not supposed to release a bird or dummy... or anything you tell it to fetch until it is told to release.

I'm going to start mine on force fetch in about two months, he'll be around 8 months then.

Seems like one of the more difficult parts to training though, so I wanted to get some words of wisdom on it first :-)


"Hold" is part of this process. "Fetch" is "pick it up". There are some great videos out there of the process. Have a look and ask questions.


Regards,

Jay
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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026514 11/13/15 01:42 AM
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I've researched two methods.

Traditional which includes ear pinch, walking fetch and stick fetch.

Hillmann's method which I am leaning toward which includes teaching the command "fetch" just like you would teach "sit" or "here" etc. Then use the e-collar to reinforce the command with repetition and numerous light nicks of the e-collar.

Leaning toward Hillmann's but have not decided. Might incorporate both.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QyADULYs8oc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-J-52dyi7Ng





Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026521 11/13/15 01:47 AM
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Passthru, if you are not going to use an e-collar then i know you aren't going like traditional FF.

If you do not have any intention of using an e-collar and you do not like traditional FF then there is no way that I am aware of that you'll be able to force fetch your dog.

You really should spend some time on Bill Hillmann's blog and watching his YouTube videos. I think you'll like his approach and use of the e-collar.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026526 11/13/15 01:49 AM
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I've been researching those Jay. Those videos help me tremendously... I've been following a guy named Freddy King on there... he has most everything broken down into steps that are pretty easy for someone new to training like me to follow. But I like getting everyone else's advice on here as well because it helps to foresee any problems that might occur as a result of a mistake I may make or something not mentioned in those videos.

Thanks again!!!

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026540 11/13/15 02:02 AM
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Brady I have no intention of force fetching my pup. I'm not man enough to handle that. I intend to pay a professional to do that. Chances are I will have her collar conditioned and trained as well. I was just asking that as a curiousity.

I know I will never be a force in the FT or HT circles and that is not my intent. However I wouldn't mind getting her at least a little something to put on her resume.


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026551 11/13/15 02:10 AM
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The Hillmann approach is super easy to follow and it takes a lot of pressure off. Before you decide to send her off take a look at his stuff. If you can purchase or borrow the "Training a retriever puppy" DVD.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026648 11/13/15 03:03 AM
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If it's not collar conditioned first, using a collar to do force will be a mistake. Always remember- the more pressure you use the better trainer you have to be.

Robby

Last edited by Birdhunter61; 11/13/15 03:05 AM.
Re: Force Fetch [Re: Sweese] #6026661 11/13/15 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sweese
Originally Posted By: Catch Dog
And if a dog already brings the down bird to you, is the Force Fetch needed?


No, it is not, especially if your gun dog is retrieving various game well, and you are pleased. It is just another level of training and part of standard path to a fully finished gun dog (retriever or pointer).


What happens when the dog doesn't bring back the bird? How do you make the dog come back with it and ensure it doesn't happen again?


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: kbobbjr] #6026678 11/13/15 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: kbobbjr
Originally Posted By: Sweese
Originally Posted By: Catch Dog
And if a dog already brings the down bird to you, is the Force Fetch needed?


No, it is not, especially if your gun dog is retrieving various game well, and you are pleased. It is just another level of training and part of standard path to a fully finished gun dog (retriever or pointer).


What happens when the dog doesn't bring back the bird? How do you make the dog come back with it and ensure it doesn't happen again?


That's a really good question. One that I can not answer as I have not had that happen. But, what could be done????

Re: Force Fetch [Re: BradyBuck] #6026748 11/13/15 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted By: BradyBuck
The Hillmann approach is super easy to follow and it takes a lot of pressure off. Before you decide to send her off take a look at his stuff. If you can purchase or borrow the "Training a retriever puppy" DVD.

Hillman, Lardy, Wolters. They are all pretty easy to follow. I just don't have the heart for it. I just flat don't want to do it myself. I have her retrieving well, working double marks and pretty steady to the gun and bumper drop. I've even made progress on the whistle and by the end of the season should have her running blinds. I'm not pushing her hard and am using as much patience as I can muster.

I also know from past dogs that FF can be frustrating to me as well as the dog and I don't like getting that frustrated. I don't handle it well and I don't want to take it out on the dog.

So I will let someone who is not as emotionally attached to her, knows, not thinks they know like me, knows what they are doing, handle something that I cannot.


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026762 11/13/15 04:01 AM
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Not sure what you mean by not having the "heart for it"

Hillmann's method is basically just like playing fetch with your dog.

I think you'll run into problems if your not prepared to continue working with your dog on the things they will learn and how they will be taught by pro with an e-collar.

Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026770 11/13/15 04:07 AM
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I'm prepared to learn and continue. I work with her on hold and if she drops a bumper I make her pick it back up and bring it to hand. FF may not be needed for her for my hunting needs but ands I said I would like to have a least a junior ranking for her at some point.


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: kbobbjr] #6026772 11/13/15 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: kbobbjr
Originally Posted By: Sweese
Originally Posted By: Catch Dog
And if a dog already brings the down bird to you, is the Force Fetch needed?


No, it is not, especially if your gun dog is retrieving various game well, and you are pleased. It is just another level of training and part of standard path to a fully finished gun dog (retriever or pointer).


What happens when the dog doesn't bring back the bird? How do you make the dog come back with it and ensure it doesn't happen again?


Of course, the handler will probably have to get the bird himself and some amount of frustration may ensue.


Regards,

Jay
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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026774 11/13/15 04:07 AM
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I'm sure the trainer I choose can train me as well.


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Re: Force Fetch [Re: hunting_guy] #6026810 11/13/15 04:28 AM
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What I still want to know is what OB training is cosidered adequate to send your dog for collar conditioning and FF?


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