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Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) #6025223 11/12/15 03:41 PM
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Thereís a lot of good, Christian men (and ladies) on here, wiser than me, so Iíd like your opinions on an ethical/relational situation at our new lease. Iím sure some will slam, as is always the case when folks open themselves up on here, but so be it. I think Iíve figured out a decent approach, after listening to my wifeís input, but Iíd also like to hear from folks that have been on different leases and in different situations. ĎSorry for the long read.

A friend of mine has found us a great lease and we had a successful opening weekend. We are all hoping to stay on the lease several years, which is why I think I may need to settle this situation from the get-go. This friend has a hectic personal life, filled with lots of drama (raising his step-grandkids, etc.), and he really needs this lease to ďdestressĒ. He did bring this last weekend and plans to bring in the future his son, who is 20, but physically, emotionally, and socially the maturity of a 13 or 14 year old. My friend has never explained it to me. This young man supposedly graduated from high school, drives, etc., but isnít going to any school and has no job. He, and his dad, thinks heís a computer guru, but honestly all Iíve ever seen is him screw up almost everything he touches. He loses, breaks, or forgets things constantly, tries to get out of helping with anything, but when anyone says a meal is ready he will run you over to be the first in line.

We did 5 hunts this past weekend. I was asked by the dad to drop off and pick up this kid 3 of those times. He doesnít like getting gates; says ďIíd like to make you get itĒ to me. On one of the other two hunts his dad dropped and picked him up, he said he stuck a trophy buck too far back with an arrow. And, he immediately went chasing off after it up the hill. The next morning we all go out to help look. (It was a cluster, but thatís a whole different subject.) That night at supper his dad thanks all of us for trying to find the deer. This kid doesnít make a peep and has the most bizarre look on his face while his dad is thanking us. Heís just on to the next way he can try and kill something and it has to be with a bow Ďcause a rifle ďisnít challenging anymoreĒ. He carries his little laptop with him everywhere and the next day, when he, his father and I pulled the SD card from the camera at the feeder he supposedly stuck this big deer at, there were mysteriously no pictures during the time frame that he was in the blind.

In short, heís slow, but devious, tries to make wise-cracks, and is extremely lazy. Itís much easier to get things done when heís not around Ďcause you donít have to double check everything heís been asked to help with. He doesnít argue, just gets real quiet when he sees youíre getting irritated. I could list a bunch of examples of his extremely bizarre behavior, but that would just make me look like a bigger jerk than I already am.

Iím mad at myself that I canít seem to accept and tolerate this kid better because I had a mentally retarded brother (high-forceps delivery in 1941) that died just a couple of years ago and that I was his guardian at the end and was with him when he passed.

I spent most of opening weekend praying about this situation and how to approach the dad if he continues to try and pawn off his own son on others on a regular basis.

How would you handle it?


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025256 11/12/15 03:51 PM
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Talk to the dad for sure.
Let the kid know that if he don't open the gates, then you will take him back to camp.
I'd also avoid going to the lease when the kid is going to be there.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025262 11/12/15 03:53 PM
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Very tough one. Could talk for days on the ins and outs. But I won't.

To me, the bottom line is that the situation is disruptive and disrespects your right as a paying lease member to enjoy what you are there to do - relax, have a good time, and hunt.

Compassion and respect are two way streets. IMO this situation needs to be respectfully laid out on the table and dealt with. Now. The only workable result I see now is that either the boy has to go - or you have to go. Maybe there is some other solution, but I don't see it from what you have written.

Good luck.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025277 11/12/15 03:55 PM
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If he truly is "intellectually disabled" I'd likely cut Dad and him a bit of slack this first week. I'd probably let things play out a bit more and if the "offloading" continues to be the norm, I'd probably address it privately/respectfully with his Dad.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025285 11/12/15 03:56 PM
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Got a similar situation in my family. From what I have seen it is lack of the parents dealing with it. In our instance the parents refused to accept that there was anything different about their child until he was 1/2 grown and the public school forced them to put him in special ed classes.

I will say that nothing that has ever been said about it over the past 20 years has been taken in a positive light and it is usually a relationship ender or at least puts it on the rocks for a few years. I wish you the best luck in dealing with it. Only advice I have is if it is a good friend then stay patient and do it for your friendship. Don't loose your cool with him, you will regret it.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025291 11/12/15 04:00 PM
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If it were me, I would find another lease...by myself. If your friend continues to bring his 20 yr. old "Kid" to the lease, you will continue to stress about it; so I would cut and run as soon as next season.
I do not believe that a talk with the dad will result in any changes, based on what you have posted. He obviously does not see a problem with the kid who probably has ADHD or something similar.
You are going to lose a friend AND A PROBLEM.
There are plenty of good leases out there, spend some time looking in the off season.
A real shame, I feel bad for you and wish you better luck.


Old age and treachery beats youth and stupid every time!
Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025294 11/12/15 04:00 PM
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Tough call especially if he is your friend and he is the one who found the lease and brought you in on it. That being said, what are your lease rules. I imagine that you are allowed to bring family members if they hunt off of your tags. If it is not that case, is he paying for a spot on the lease? First of all, at twenty he is not a kid anymore but an adult. If he had told me "no" on getting out to get the gate I would have turned around and driven under his fathers stand telling him what the kid said and that "I am not his chauffeur." and if he wants to ride with you, he will open the gates or find someway else to get to his stand.
I'm no help at all, but you cannot let one person ruin what is supposed to be fun times. I wish I had the answer for you.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025300 11/12/15 04:02 PM
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I will save the Good Lord the hassle and give you the answer you need: The kid is not a kid, he is 20, an adult and not your problem...well he maybe he is. This won't get better, I guarantee it. The bottom line is it's you or the "kid". Is your misery worth this? I would have dealt with it the first hour of the first day AND I don't have any friends that I hunt with that would put me in this situation to begin with.


How come everybody I meet is a deer hunting expert?
Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025301 11/12/15 04:02 PM
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CR, kid sounds more spoiled and catered too, more than anything. If he truly has a mental deficiency, that is one thing, but using that as an excuse is worse IMO. IMO, sounds like the dad "pawns" him off, may have been an issue long before you came along.

I personally don't see anyway you will be able to fully enjoy the expense of that lease, with this man and his son, any approach and their nature the way you explain it, you will be the blame.

I think you are smart to deal with this right off the bat, but be prepared for rebuff. When he told you "I'd like to make you get it" at the gate, would have been enough for me, if his dad allows that kind of disrespect, then everyone else will have to tolerate it and I couldn't.

Good luck my friend, I'd rather hunt 5 acres alone, then 1000 with that problem.


Die young,,,,as old as you can....

"Don't trust everything you read on the Internet"- Abraham Lincoln

Dennis

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025302 11/12/15 04:02 PM
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ech. Tough situation.

Sounds like with the laser focus you are describing and missing the social cues he may be 'on the scale' and possibly have Asperger's Syndrome or possibly undiagnosed autism.

I think you have to speak with the father about it - especially since it appears to be diminishing your enjoyment of the lease. A solution might be to push for revision of the guest policy next season and gut it out this season? Our guest policy is that kids 18 and under can hunt with a parent. After that, they count against the one guest per gun three times per season.

Sucks for the boy's father since he sounds like he needs the time to unwind as well.

It is hard to adopt a servant's heart in this situation; especially when you intended to enjoy the hunting the way you wanted to and this situation inhibits that. I do think it is unfair that you feel this burden as it is not yours to bear.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025305 11/12/15 04:03 PM
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Guess it depends more if he is a friend or an acquaintance. Ive got friends that are family and ive got a few I wont go too far out of my way for. The later I don't typically refer to as a friend unless im in their presence.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025309 11/12/15 04:04 PM
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That's a tough one, and I'm not the best for giving advice in this situation, but here is my advice; leave camp before they ever do and try not to be at the lease when they are. I'm not good with situations like that and normally open my mouth and speak before thinking, I have no filter. There is a family member on my wife's side that is like that, although I think he is babied way too much and that's a large part of the problem, but I just distance myself from him so as to eleminate any problems


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025324 11/12/15 04:09 PM
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I re-read your post and the comment he made about the gate bothers me for you. That is pretty dang brazen to say something like that. I think the dad needs to be put on notice when that was pulled. A 'verbal slap' of that kid wouldn't have been out of line; taking him back to camp wouldn't have either.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025348 11/12/15 04:15 PM
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Been through this in other aspects of my life but not on a lease. My personal experience finally brought me to the conclusion that no matter how much I wanted things to be different, no matter how much I tried, it was a hopeless situation because I had no control of it. I simply chose to remove myself from it because in the end I was miserable. I cant foresee anyway this works out in your favor to where you will be happy. The kid isnt going to change and the dad isnt going to remove his kid from the lease. Just my opinion. I wish the best for you and for sure God will lead you to the decision you need to make at some point.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025357 11/12/15 04:16 PM
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Thanks to all of you that have responded so far. There's good points in every single post.

Yeah, here's an added wrinkle - this is a church friend. So if the situation blows, we'll still have to face each other. My friend is quite a bit of a "delegator" and attempts to order people around, knows the only way to do something properly (especially hunting), etc., but, because of this, he'll quarter your deer, measure your deer, cook lots of meals, etc. I think the kid has watched this all his life so he thinks he's in some kind of royal family or something.

The kid got the gate. No way in hell I wouldn't make him, or, as stated, take him back. I told him that if he wants other men to respect him then the polite thing is to get the gate. Another time I tried to show him gate "etiquette" like putting on your back-up lights for the guy at night, etc. Again, he doesn't argue; just has a blank stare forward when you're trying to speak seriously to him.

Thanks again for the help guys.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025385 11/12/15 04:24 PM
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I doubt you go to church for "his" benefit, so I wouldn't put much in that. IMO, the son will reflect what he has been taught by his parents, you aren't born arrogant. You also wont make much impact on a kid that is 20 years into being spoiled.

You may be more " a means to an end" than a friend. I'd take my lease money and move on (if he doesn't) Life is too short to get tangled up in other peoples stupidity CR.


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Dennis

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025394 11/12/15 04:26 PM
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Only you can decide for you, Creek. Personally, I'd weather the storm this year (go when they aren't, or put up with as much as you can) but I'd quietly get out before next year. Or, as could be the case, you think God has put you in this situation for a reason, speak up knowing that either you'll be shed of both of them or just maybe your friend will listen and take some steps that will help them both going forward.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025415 11/12/15 04:34 PM
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I think there is a much bigger problem here and the lease and should be your last concern. From what I have read safety is the main thing I would address first. You are not the boys dad so you have no accountability as far as how he is raised or brought up. That being said though, everything needs to be addressed as far as camp/lease rules. It does not matter of his age or gender, everyone should be playing by the same set of rules regardless. If the rules cannot be agreed upon by all then someone needs to bow out.


Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: HuntnFly67] #6025420 11/12/15 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67

Sounds like with the laser focus you are describing and missing the social cues he may be 'on the scale' and possibly have Asperger's Syndrome or possibly undiagnosed autism.


I was thinking exact same thing. High functioning Aspergers. Work with a number of kids in our program like this. They can be taught to function in an environment like deer camp but would be a lot of work. Parenting them is a "no rest" situation. But not fair of the parent to be forcing your lease members to share the burden.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: dkershen] #6025487 11/12/15 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67

Sounds like with the laser focus you are describing and missing the social cues he may be 'on the scale' and possibly have Asperger's Syndrome or possibly undiagnosed autism.


I was thinking exact same thing. High functioning Aspergers. Work with a number of kids in our program like this. They can be taught to function in an environment like deer camp but would be a lot of work. Parenting them is a "no rest" situation. But not fair of the parent to be forcing your lease members to share the burden.


Same here.

It isn't easy dealing with someone of that nature, not knowing their thought process, but they can be taught, given the time and effort. A lot of parents don't bother and just accept the fact that they're different and always will be, instead of doing what they can to help them become a semi-functioning member of society. I don't know if that's the case here, or not, but it sounds like it to some degree. I would be patient and do what I could to be a good influence on the young man. I understand the frustrations and have the same tendencies, myself, but be patient with them both, and do your best to influence the entire situation for the better. If it doesn't get better, do what you have to. If things don't work out, it won't be on you.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025497 11/12/15 04:55 PM
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That's tough, but unfortunately something that should have been dealt with by the kids father starting about 20 years ago. Sadly I don't think talking to him is going to change a thing. If it was me I would stick it out this year and find a new place next year. Or possibly talk to the dad about enforcing guest rules on y'all's place just with this kid in mind. I just hate the thought of ruining a friendship because of one kid that doesn't know what discipline is.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Sneaky] #6025524 11/12/15 05:06 PM
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Just spit it out to the father! The gate issues, missing pictures on camera, lack of help in camp, failer in parental responsibility...If he can't stand the honest heat coming from a friend then wasn't much of friendship! Keep the good Christian values out of this, this is real life in the field where someone could get hurt or killed if someone isn't being held to certain level. Besides hunting/fishing you can see behaviors come out of people you would have never imagined good and bad! Now I see why I hunt alone or VERY picky who I hunt with.


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Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: RLoving1] #6025590 11/12/15 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: RLoving1
...If he can't stand the honest heat coming from a friend then wasn't much of friendship...


There is truth in that statement. True friends are the honest ones that hold us accountable.

Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025604 11/12/15 05:41 PM
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While I will admit that it would be a HUGE struggle for me to deal with this, as someone has already stated, maybe God has a plan in all of this. Now that being said, I would still speak with the father about the whole situation. But approach it carefully, with a "let's bind together and teach him" attitude vs "you better set that boy straight or I will" mindset. The latter will automatically have the father in a defensive mode. Heck, the former may do that...but you'll know right away how it's liable to go

Best of luck, CR


Originally Posted By: East...
Originally Posted By: East...
I will get off in a little bit

You shouldnt have said that
Re: Co-lessee situation? (Very long read - sorry.) [Re: Creekrunner] #6025631 11/12/15 05:57 PM
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If this kid has issues, do you really want to be around him with weapons? Find another lease. I won't go hunting with a friend of a friend for the same reason,. Safety.

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