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How old do they live?? #6019898 11/09/15 10:01 PM
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I am curious as to thoughts on the odds of deer living until they are 10, 12, or even 14 years old? I am not talking about one in a rare case but a number of them in the same herd? And not deer in captivity but free range.

I have always read and been told that even on protein a deer's teeth will wear down to where they cannot chew and digest food well any longer. Assuming they don't get shot or killed by a predator, is it possible for a large number of them to live to those ages?


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6019907 11/09/15 10:05 PM
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I would doubt it.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6019918 11/09/15 10:10 PM
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I was on a ranch that was part of the old Welder Cameron. CKWRI had put collars and tags on bucks and does for research in the 80's. Whole ranch was LF up until the late 90's when they sold off pastures. In 99 I saw a doe with a telemetry collar and green ear tags. I talked to one of the guys at CKWRI and he said if she was tagged the last year of the study(3 yrs running of collaring/tagging) as a doe fawn that she would have been 14 yrs old that year. She had 2 fawns that year in bow season when I saw her. She was till alive in 2000 or 2001 till about 18,000 acres sold and the owners son was the manager of the ranch and he killed her just so he could have the collar. I know of two more collars found on the ranch in bone piles. I killed a buck that was the oldest buck I have every seen in person.

He is the euro on the right. The other buck was killed about 2.5 miles away on same ranch, the same year. I aged him at 7.5 that year.

I know that Jambers had a buck that was born in the wild and a wild deer but behind a HF in McMullen County that was noted to live till 21 or 22 yrs of age. No protein, but the buck lost all of his teeth around age 10 or so and was hand fed by Mr. Jambers from that point on everyday till he died. The buck died a week later IIRC. There was an article in TTHA magazine about the buck. He was in a pasture around the HQ that was a no hunting saftey area and never left it.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: stxranchman] #6020000 11/09/15 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
I was on a ranch that was part of the old Welder Cameron. CKWRI had put collars and tags on bucks and does for research in the 80's. Whole ranch was LF up until the late 90's when they sold off pastures. In 99 I saw a doe with a telemetry collar and green ear tags. I talked to one of the guys at CKWRI and he said if she was tagged the last year of the study(3 yrs running of collaring/tagging) as a doe fawn that she would have been 14 yrs old that year. She had 2 fawns that year in bow season when I saw her. She was till alive in 2000 or 2001 till about 18,000 acres sold and the owners son was the manager of the ranch and he killed her just so he could have the collar. I know of two more collars found on the ranch in bone piles. I killed a buck that was the oldest buck I have every seen in person.

He is the euro on the right. The other buck was killed about 2.5 miles away on same ranch, the same year. I aged him at 7.5 that year.

I know that Jambers had a buck that was born in the wild and a wild deer but behind a HF in McMullen County that was noted to live till 21 or 22 yrs of age. No protein, but the buck lost all of his teeth around age 10 or so and was hand fed by Mr. Jambers from that point on everyday till he died. The buck died a week later IIRC. There was an article in TTHA magazine about the buck. He was in a pasture around the HQ that was a no hunting saftey area and never left it.


Interesting stuff - what is your feeling though on multiple deer out of a herd living to those ages? I understand an exception or hand feeding but in the wild can there be a good percentage of deer live to those ages?


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020029 11/09/15 11:10 PM
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I know of a ranch in Jim Hogg county that regularly shoots bucks in the 9+ year old range. My buddy killed one they aged at 12 years old

Another buddy has a ranch in McMullen that they have killed several that was 9+ years old

I have guided one hunter to a deer that was 9 1/2 years old certified (was released out of a pen as a two year old and had a freeze brand).


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: txtrophy85] #6020046 11/09/15 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I know of a ranch in Jim Hogg county that regularly shoots bucks in the 9+ year old range. My buddy killed one they aged at 12 years old

Another buddy has a ranch in McMullen that they have killed several that was 9+ years old

I have guided one hunter to a deer that was 9 1/2 years old certified (was released out of a pen as a two year old and had a freeze brand).


How would you age a 12 year old buck? I've killed 8 and 9 year olds and they are dang near toothless at that point. Never seen a chart that went past 9.5. confused2


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: dkershen] #6020067 11/09/15 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I know of a ranch in Jim Hogg county that regularly shoots bucks in the 9+ year old range. My buddy killed one they aged at 12 years old

Another buddy has a ranch in McMullen that they have killed several that was 9+ years old

I have guided one hunter to a deer that was 9 1/2 years old certified (was released out of a pen as a two year old and had a freeze brand).


How would you age a 12 year old buck? I've killed 8 and 9 year olds and they are dang near toothless at that point. Never seen a chart that went past 9.5. confused2


I agree - unless you have pics each year or collar not sure how that can be done - how does a deer 12 years old chew browse with no teeth? Again I am just curious


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020076 11/09/15 11:38 PM
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I also don't see how you could age one accurately to that age without tags or markings. Even with pics, when they start declining it would be difficult to identify that deer from year to year based on the antlers. Looks at the pics STX posted. I would take a guess that they didn't look anything like that when they were in their prime.


Re: How old do they live?? [Re: dkershen] #6020084 11/09/15 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: dkershen
Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
I know of a ranch in Jim Hogg county that regularly shoots bucks in the 9+ year old range. My buddy killed one they aged at 12 years old

Another buddy has a ranch in McMullen that they have killed several that was 9+ years old

I have guided one hunter to a deer that was 9 1/2 years old certified (was released out of a pen as a two year old and had a freeze brand).


How would you age a 12 year old buck? I've killed 8 and 9 year olds and they are dang near toothless at that point. Never seen a chart that went past 9.5. confused2


hell I don't know. the 9 year old buck we killed still had some teeth left and we know without a doubt he was 9 1/2 years old


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020237 11/10/15 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: tlk
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
I was on a ranch that was part of the old Welder Cameron. CKWRI had put collars and tags on bucks and does for research in the 80's. Whole ranch was LF up until the late 90's when they sold off pastures. In 99 I saw a doe with a telemetry collar and green ear tags. I talked to one of the guys at CKWRI and he said if she was tagged the last year of the study(3 yrs running of collaring/tagging) as a doe fawn that she would have been 14 yrs old that year. She had 2 fawns that year in bow season when I saw her. She was till alive in 2000 or 2001 till about 18,000 acres sold and the owners son was the manager of the ranch and he killed her just so he could have the collar. I know of two more collars found on the ranch in bone piles. I killed a buck that was the oldest buck I have every seen in person.

He is the euro on the right. The other buck was killed about 2.5 miles away on same ranch, the same year. I aged him at 7.5 that year.

I know that Jambers had a buck that was born in the wild and a wild deer but behind a HF in McMullen County that was noted to live till 21 or 22 yrs of age. No protein, but the buck lost all of his teeth around age 10 or so and was hand fed by Mr. Jambers from that point on everyday till he died. The buck died a week later IIRC. There was an article in TTHA magazine about the buck. He was in a pasture around the HQ that was a no hunting saftey area and never left it.


Interesting stuff - what is your feeling though on multiple deer out of a herd living to those ages? I understand an exception or hand feeding but in the wild can there be a good percentage of deer live to those ages?

That pasture where the collared doe lived is the same pasture that buck came from. Deer will live a lot longer than we think they will in the wild. The reason many don't is people kill them before they get a chance to live out their life to the fullest. Jambers was only hand feeding that buck corn twice per day. He lived off what else he could eat.
This buck was in that same pasture. He was post mature the first time I saw him and this pic was taken 3 yrs later.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020290 11/10/15 01:38 AM
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you can send the front two incisors ,(bottom center teeth) to deerage.com and the can give you the age of any deer. regardless of age. Forrest

Re: How old do they live?? [Re: Drahthaar] #6020304 11/10/15 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Drahthaar
you can send the front two incisors ,(bottom center teeth) to deerage.com and the can give you the age of any deer. regardless of age. Forrest


we do that with our deer - problem is once they hit 7-8 they even have trouble nailing the real age -


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: stxranchman] #6020317 11/10/15 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Originally Posted By: tlk
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
I was on a ranch that was part of the old Welder Cameron. CKWRI had put collars and tags on bucks and does for research in the 80's. Whole ranch was LF up until the late 90's when they sold off pastures. In 99 I saw a doe with a telemetry collar and green ear tags. I talked to one of the guys at CKWRI and he said if she was tagged the last year of the study(3 yrs running of collaring/tagging) as a doe fawn that she would have been 14 yrs old that year. She had 2 fawns that year in bow season when I saw her. She was till alive in 2000 or 2001 till about 18,000 acres sold and the owners son was the manager of the ranch and he killed her just so he could have the collar. I know of two more collars found on the ranch in bone piles. I killed a buck that was the oldest buck I have every seen in person.

He is the euro on the right. The other buck was killed about 2.5 miles away on same ranch, the same year. I aged him at 7.5 that year.

I know that Jambers had a buck that was born in the wild and a wild deer but behind a HF in McMullen County that was noted to live till 21 or 22 yrs of age. No protein, but the buck lost all of his teeth around age 10 or so and was hand fed by Mr. Jambers from that point on everyday till he died. The buck died a week later IIRC. There was an article in TTHA magazine about the buck. He was in a pasture around the HQ that was a no hunting saftey area and never left it.


Interesting stuff - what is your feeling though on multiple deer out of a herd living to those ages? I understand an exception or hand feeding but in the wild can there be a good percentage of deer live to those ages?

That pasture where the collared doe lived is the same pasture that buck came from. Deer will live a lot longer than we think they will in the wild. The reason many don't is people kill them before they get a chance to live out their life to the fullest. Jambers was only hand feeding that buck corn twice per day. He lived off what else he could eat.
This buck was in that same pasture. He was post mature the first time I saw him and this pic was taken 3 yrs later.



I hear you - however back to my original question - I understand there are individual bucks that can live that long. But in a free range low fence ranch can a large number of bucks live to those ages if they are not shot? I have read studies of collared deer that have 25% buck die off per year from predators alone.

How can a large percentage live that long without their teeth wearing out from eating natural browse and protein? I just have trouble from a common sense standpoint thinking a bunch of bucks in one herd can all live to 12-14 years old. I am willing to admit I am wrong but I am looking for a reasonable explanation as to how that many deer have teeth that last that long when they are chewing natural browse every day - somebody educate me

Last edited by tlk; 11/10/15 01:50 AM.

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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020332 11/10/15 02:01 AM
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I have a friend that has a low fence place, but I consider his deer "pet deer". His old doe roamed off at 16 1/2 years and never came back, she had twin fawns to 14 years old. He gives them all names and some are in the 12-14 year range.
We hunted a place near Laredo a few years back, we were shooting deer that had deformed jaws their teeth were so worn (like STXs pictures), we didn't know to to age them, some of their teeth had fallen out too.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020345 11/10/15 02:09 AM
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Sombrerito Ranch typical shoots their trophy bucks at 9-10 yrs old and has for many years. Every ranch is different. The Cameron allowed no Moutain Lions to be killed ever when it was still under same ownership. They had a ton of coyotes on that ranch and those deer lived to that age under low fence and no feed for years. I would expect more deer to live that long if they were allowed to die of old age. I have a friend in the San Angelo area that has pictures of bucks that lived to be 14-15 yrs old on his ranch. HF? Yes, but native deer and fed protein. He never kills a top end buck and has numbers of bucks that are that age on his ranch every year. He allows them to die of old age with hopes they will breed one more doe each year.
Bucks and does were killed the first year I was managing that ranch and there were a lot of them that were aged as 7+ for age since it was impossible to tell how old they were at that point. Several had jawbones similar to the one I posted the pic of. They did shoot does every now and then. There was about 40 doe shot a year or so before I went to work there on that one pasture. So the does were managed from time to time. I know in the early 90's they shot them for 3 years or so then quit, other than a few meat hunters each season.
I think there are a lot of factors that will effect how long a deer can live. Weather, habitat, supplementation, minerals, etc all play a big part in survival.
Deer would be like humans with their teeth I would think. Some people loose their teeth early in life and others have a full set till they die. Diet effects both I would expect. Genetics could play a large part of it also. I think lack of late winter, post rut nutrition probably kills more bucks than anything else. They are run down, injured and easy pickings for coyotes.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: stxranchman] #6020362 11/10/15 02:18 AM
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That's a Grandpa there STX. The oldest bucks that I've ever seen taken were judged at 7-8, and they were going downhill. Can't imagine trying to judge teeth after 8 yrs old. As you know, better than me I'm sure, depending on a number of factors some deer live a lot longer than others. Like people I reckon, genetics being 1'st and nutrition (including the soil/wear on teeth). Anyway, guess if a buck lost his teeth but still managed to survive for many years I wouldn't be able to judge him. Except for saying that he's really old lol.

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I know a buck that is 11.5 now and will be 12.5 next fall. He's sporting over 200" and has been free range for the last 4 years.

I have deer in south Texas that are natives that are easy in the 9-10 range.

Keeping a high number of does reduces fighting and some of the larger bucks don't have to fight much anyway because they are so intimidating.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: therancher] #6020372 11/10/15 02:22 AM
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There's a photographer that has a series of pics of a buck over 10 or 11 years. Iirc his second best antlers were at 9.


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020386 11/10/15 02:27 AM
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5-6 yr olds are the norm old bucks.. They go higher but not very often since we have such a high population

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Here in my area I mean

Re: How old do they live?? [Re: stxranchman] #6020409 11/10/15 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
Sombrerito Ranch typical shoots their trophy bucks at 9-10 yrs old and has for many years. Every ranch is different. The Cameron allowed no Moutain Lions to be killed ever when it was still under same ownership. They had a ton of coyotes on that ranch and those deer lived to that age under low fence and no feed for years. I would expect more deer to live that long if they were allowed to die of old age. I have a friend in the San Angelo area that has pictures of bucks that lived to be 14-15 yrs old on his ranch. HF? Yes, but native deer and fed protein. He never kills a top end buck and has numbers of bucks that are that age on his ranch every year. He allows them to die of old age with hopes they will breed one more doe each year.
Bucks and does were killed the first year I was managing that ranch and there were a lot of them that were aged as 7+ for age since it was impossible to tell how old they were at that point. Several had jawbones similar to the one I posted the pic of. They did shoot does every now and then. There was about 40 doe shot a year or so before I went to work there on that one pasture. So the does were managed from time to time. I know in the early 90's they shot them for 3 years or so then quit, other than a few meat hunters each season.
I think there are a lot of factors that will effect how long a deer can live. Weather, habitat, supplementation, minerals, etc all play a big part in survival.
Deer would be like humans with their teeth I would think. Some people loose their teeth early in life and others have a full set till they die. Diet effects both I would expect. Genetics could play a large part of it also. I think lack of late winter, post rut nutrition probably kills more bucks than anything else. They are run down, injured and easy pickings for coyotes.



Did they have a lot of mountain lions on the Cameron?


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: Drahthaar] #6020439 11/10/15 02:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Drahthaar
you can send the front two incisors ,(bottom center teeth) to deerage.com and the can give you the age of any deer. regardless of age. Forrest


We send all of our Teeth in on our Trophy's and he has told me ..we can get extremely close...BUT the only TRUE way to perfectly age a Texas Whitetail is to watch it hit the ground and watch it till it dies, it's a good " tool" but not 100% Sir.

It's a good tool to keep the "Chatter" around the campfire down when we have age requirements on Trophy's


Re: How old do they live?? [Re: txtrophy85] #6020448 11/10/15 02:56 AM
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once more - I am not asking about individual bucks that live that long - it is like people - somebody lives to 100 years old every so often. I am referring to a herd of deer in one area on free range low fence that have a number of them living to 12 year old range. So individual examples of deer living that long is not what I am referring to.

The basis of my question is that there are some LF ranches claiming they let their herd bucks to to 12 years old - is that possible or probable? Can a large number of bucks live to that age considering tooth wear, preditors. etc? I do not claim to know the answer - I am just thinking from a common sense standpoint that seems highly unlikely. My mind can be changed but has to be hard facts and proof -


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Re: How old do they live?? [Re: tlk] #6020451 11/10/15 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: tlk

I hear you - however back to my original question - I understand there are individual bucks that can live that long. But in a free range low fence ranch can a large number of bucks live to those ages if they are not shot? I have read studies of collared deer that have 25% buck die off per year from predators alone.

How can a large percentage live that long without their teeth wearing out from eating natural browse and protein? I just have trouble from a common sense standpoint thinking a bunch of bucks in one herd can all live to 12-14 years old. I am willing to admit I am wrong but I am looking for a reasonable explanation as to how that many deer have teeth that last that long when they are chewing natural browse every day - somebody educate me


I agree with you. Normal range, normal condition and on most places, a buck isn't going to see 12 years old. I hunt on 10k acres and can assure that we don't shoot all the deer. Most years, we kill around 10-15 bucks off the place. 25 bucks would be a record number taken. We also have very low predator numbers. Our deer typically don't see years past 7 and they are well on their way downhill by then.


Re: How old do they live?? [Re: therancher] #6020469 11/10/15 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
I know a buck that is 11.5 now and will be 12.5 next fall. He's sporting over 200" and has been free range for the last 4 years.

I have deer in south Texas that are natives that are easy in the 9-10 range.

Keeping a high number of does reduces fighting and some of the larger bucks don't have to fight much anyway because they are so intimidating.


Only two ways to grow bucks that old, normally. 1) They are high fenced. 2) You have a big spread with a healthy deer herd. Most places in S Texas don't get to see what an OOOLD buck looks like. Was at the FORD dealership last week. Couldn't help but noticing the big bucks on the boss's wall, he caught me looking and invited me in. Nice old feller. Said he is hunting on 700 acres HF in Duval, I said I am hunting on 700 acres just South of him in Duval, we have both been hunting there for 20 yrs. Good conversation. He swore by the HF and I told him that we are low fence and he looked at me funny. roflmao I've never killed a deer bigger than any that he had on his wall (that I can take credit for) and that's ok. I'm not a hater. grin

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