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what animals hear from suppressors part II #5977230 10/14/15 05:09 PM
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Silencer shop came down this weekend and brought some suppressors and decibel meters with them. So we decided to show the noise a bullet impact from a suppressed rifle makes on impact with the animal. We used .308, 6.8spc, .45acp, 5.56, 22LR and 300 blackout.




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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977265 10/14/15 05:26 PM
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Pretty cool stuff


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977313 10/14/15 05:55 PM
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Great video. The jury had still been out for me regarding my suppressor purchase until this weekend. As I stated in a previous post, my other lease members did not hear me shoot the pig twice from less that a 1/4 mile away. So while the suppressor doesn't make it Hollywood quite, it does elminate the need for hearing protection. I can't wait until I catch a big sounder in a wheat field.

Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977526 10/14/15 08:31 PM
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That was pretty cool. I have to admit that I was confused for a second because I heard him say the the 45 carbine was shooting +P+ bullets. But then the sheet said subsonic. I had to go back and watch again and I heard that it was the brand of bullet and that they were subsonic.


Good information to have.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977600 10/14/15 09:25 PM
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I am actually surprised at the suppressed db levels, thought they might be a little lower...makes me wonder what non suppressed sounds like for each of those weapons and rounds.


cool video and good work on it!

Last edited by Texas buckeye; 10/14/15 09:27 PM.
Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: bigjoe8565] #5977604 10/14/15 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: bigjoe8565
Great video. The jury had still been out for me regarding my suppressor purchase until this weekend. As I stated in a previous post, my other lease members did not hear me shoot the pig twice from less that a 1/4 mile away. So while the suppressor doesn't make it Hollywood quite, it does elminate the need for hearing protection. I can't wait until I catch a big sounder in a wheat field.


Having said that, there have been many times I have not heard my BIL shoot his non-suppressed 30-06 less than a quarter mile away on my lease...tree cover and wind makes a big difference to allowing sound to travel some days.

Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977614 10/14/15 09:32 PM
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Which .45 carbine was that?


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977700 10/14/15 10:23 PM
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Most excellent information.

As a point of reference, you should list the SPL of each gun without a silencer using the brake/hider that would normally be installed on the production gun.


Cheers,
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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977918 10/15/15 12:29 AM
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Nice video (as always), good illustration of the relative benefits of using a suppressor.

Caption should read: What HUMANS hear from suppressors, however.

Most of the animals we hunt (and certainly hogs) have superior hearing to ours in terms of gathering sound.

Depending on the animal, 'direction' of sound can be better determined as well.

Still, the video offers those without suppressor experience....something to chew on. Good job.

Flint.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5977944 10/15/15 12:49 AM
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Very good. I remember your first suppressor/impact video, it was neat but this was an awesome improvement. Location of the microphones was better and the bd meters showed what you tried to communicate previously.
I enjoyed it and will share the link for others to see.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: bull279] #5978109 10/15/15 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted By: bull279
That was pretty cool. I have to admit that I was confused for a second because I heard him say the the 45 carbine was shooting +P+ bullets. But then the sheet said subsonic. I had to go back and watch again and I heard that it was the brand of bullet and that they were subsonic.


Good information to have.



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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Vern1] #5978129 10/15/15 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: Vern1
Most excellent information.

As a point of reference, you should list the SPL of each gun without a silencer using the brake/hider that would normally be installed on the production gun.


This was not a test to show the effectiveness of the suppressor on the rifle. This was a test to show that impact on targets hogs, coyotes, deer is generally louder or close to the weapon firing suppressed. Many people think a subsonic load with a suppressor will allow them to shoot with impunity while the rest of the intended targets hear nothing.

There are many videos on Silencer Shops youtube of the rifles being fired with and without suppressors this was solely for the bullet impact.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: flintknapper] #5978139 10/15/15 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: flintknapper
Nice video (as always), good illustration of the relative benefits of using a suppressor.

Caption should read: What HUMANS hear from suppressors, however.

Most of the animals we hunt (and certainly hogs) have superior hearing to ours in terms of gathering sound.

Depending on the animal, 'direction' of sound can be better determined as well.

Still, the video offers those without suppressor experience....something to chew on. Good job.

Flint.


Even if they hear better that will not change the decibel level? The whole point is to show when firing into a group the other hogs will run from the impact of the bullet not the gun shot.

I have been saying for a couple of years now that the impact sounds louder than the shot now I know for sure. I changed up the whole order I shoot the hogs now, by shooting the one closest to cover they usually will run into the open more giving me more shots. Sometimes I can even steer them with the impacts smile


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5978318 10/15/15 04:25 AM
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Nice video. Good to see the measurement at both ends of the action.

Re: hunting techniques, a ranger up in the east uses the tactic of, when there is a tree behind his prey, he shoots the tree, and the prey will generally run towards him. He uses this when culling deer. Keeps more of them in his sites longer.

Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5978763 10/15/15 03:28 PM
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Whats the decibel level on the 6.8 with those 120 sst's not using a suppressor. Something I have been curious about.

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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5978981 10/15/15 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: Vern1
Most excellent information.

As a point of reference, you should list the SPL of each gun without a silencer using the brake/hider that would normally be installed on the production gun.


This was not a test to show the effectiveness of the suppressor on the rifle. This was a test to show that impact on targets hogs, coyotes, deer is generally louder or close to the weapon firing suppressed. Many people think a subsonic load with a suppressor will allow them to shoot with impunity while the rest of the intended targets hear nothing.

There are many videos on Silencer Shops youtube of the rifles being fired with and without suppressors this was solely for the bullet impact.


Your intent and information came across very well, not arguing that a bit.
I'm just curious and thought a benchmark SPL would be nice since I also shoot pigs with a 6.8 AR which was one of your test rifles.


Cheers,
Vern1
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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5979134 10/15/15 07:14 PM
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Great video

I like the sound of bullets hitting pigs. rifle taz



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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Vern1] #5979620 10/16/15 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: Vern1
Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: Vern1
Most excellent information.

As a point of reference, you should list the SPL of each gun without a silencer using the brake/hider that would normally be installed on the production gun.


This was not a test to show the effectiveness of the suppressor on the rifle. This was a test to show that impact on targets hogs, coyotes, deer is generally louder or close to the weapon firing suppressed. Many people think a subsonic load with a suppressor will allow them to shoot with impunity while the rest of the intended targets hear nothing.

There are many videos on Silencer Shops youtube of the rifles being fired with and without suppressors this was solely for the bullet impact.


Your intent and information came across very well, not arguing that a bit.
I'm just curious and thought a benchmark SPL would be nice since I also shoot pigs with a 6.8 AR which was one of your test rifles.


Sorry was not trying to be argumentative. I thought they had done the 6.8 test all ready but after a search I cannot find one. I will arrange for that to be done soon!


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5979773 10/16/15 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: Vern1
Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: Vern1
Most excellent information.

As a point of reference, you should list the SPL of each gun without a silencer using the brake/hider that would normally be installed on the production gun.


This was not a test to show the effectiveness of the suppressor on the rifle. This was a test to show that impact on targets hogs, coyotes, deer is generally louder or close to the weapon firing suppressed. Many people think a subsonic load with a suppressor will allow them to shoot with impunity while the rest of the intended targets hear nothing.

There are many videos on Silencer Shops youtube of the rifles being fired with and without suppressors this was solely for the bullet impact.


Your intent and information came across very well, not arguing that a bit.
I'm just curious and thought a benchmark SPL would be nice since I also shoot pigs with a 6.8 AR which was one of your test rifles.


Sorry was not trying to be argumentative. I thought they had done the 6.8 test all ready but after a search I cannot find one. I will arrange for that to be done soon!


Sweet ,,,



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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5979943 10/16/15 04:07 AM
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TLM wrote:

Quote:
Even if they hear better that will not change the decibel level?


Correct, however the decibel level is but one equation (a measure of pressure) of a much more complex set of considerations (frequency, mode of sound localization, etc). The human range of hearing is roughly 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Pigs are roughly 42 Hz to 40.5 kHz.

So until/unless you can measure the frequency of all airborne sound (propagated by muzzle blast, Sonic Crack/Shock Wave, or the actual impact) then we can't really say what the hog is hearing, only what WE are hearing.

Now, I happen to know that 'most' of the sound generated by gunfire falls within the frequency range that BOTH humans and hogs (but not necessarily the other 'animals' you allude to) would hear, so frequency alone is not fatal to your argument. I would simply caution everyone not to lightly make parallels of human 'senses' to those of animals.


Quote:
The whole point is to show when firing into a group the other hogs will run from the impact of the bullet not the gun shot.


Well...I would submit, we simply don't know this. First of all...the placement of your decibel meter (near the muzzle of the weapon) can not replicate the sound wave signature and path taken to a distant target. Particularly where supersonic or trans-sonic projectile flight is concerned.

There is a 'mach angle' to consider that defines how the 'sound' (read pressure wave) is configured. Your decibel meter being located to the side of the muzzle (and perhaps behind, I can't tell) can not accurately receive the same impulse. IF you located the meter the same distance as your target and then shot just to the side of the meter, then yes...we could probably call that recorded figure...'it'.

The meter at the hog carcass might reasonably be considered a substitute for an animal in close proximity to the one being struck. So no objection there (as concerns placement). But I do question just what sound impulse it was recording. The decibel meter (I have no idea how it was weighted) is simply recording the 'peak' pressure wave it receives. But what was the source of that pressure? In the case of the supersonic loads, did it record the shock wave of the bullet, (if still supersonic at that point) or was it the impact sound of the bullet?

Quote:
I have been saying for a couple of years now that the impact sounds louder than the shot now I know for sure.


This is certainly possible, but it might also be 'perception'. Since you are always behind the rifle, you don't hear the exact same thing as something out in front of it. Also, that sound (to a large degree) is coming back to you...having bounced off of something first, attenuated...if you will. Too, it likely contains higher frequency waves that are harder to discern than low frequency sound (the kind produced from fleshy impact). It may or may not actually be 'louder' (as expressed as a pressure wave), but you can more readily hear it.

I would have to say at best, that it remains uncertain just what hogs (and other animals) are hearing given this particular test method.


Quote:
I changed up the whole order I shoot the hogs now, by shooting the one closest to cover they usually will run into the open more giving me more shots. Sometimes I can even steer them with the impacts smile


Well, this an area where I am happy to give you high marks. Experimentation and the free sharing of information (even if prematurely presented as fact on occasion);). Just the same, if you continue to get good results from the technique then it surely counts as worthy anecdotal evidence for your position and will render 'moot' all of my blather above. I hope you understand...it is not my intent to disparage your efforts, in fact I applaud you.

Keep killing those hogs!

Flint.

Last edited by flintknapper; 10/16/15 04:11 AM.

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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5980162 10/16/15 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texaslawman

Sorry was not trying to be argumentative. I thought they had done the 6.8 test all ready but after a search I cannot find one. I will arrange for that to be done soon!


Never took it as an argument Sir and if I came across as such, it was not intentional.
Having spent more than a few years in a DOD Reliability test lab I really appreciate a nicely done test with recorded data to support it.

I'm shooting AR in 6.8 w/120gr SSTs so it was naturally more interesting to me!
It would be interesting to see the same setup but have two benchmark samples of "uncanned" rifle with same two measurement locations, then progress straight into the same shots with a can.
That could be used to show effectiveness of the can and practical use beyond a mere "silencer" in a hunting situation for other hunters and potential customers.

Keep on pushing the envelope my friend.
Your info helps a lot more than you realize.
I've hunted pigs most of the last 30+ years and always follow your adventures.
This information certainly can and will improve other pig hunters.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: syncerus] #5983872 10/19/15 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: syncerus
Which .45 carbine was that?


x2. That thing is sweet!

Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: DocHorton] #5988214 10/22/15 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocHorton
Originally Posted By: syncerus
Which .45 carbine was that?


x2. That thing is sweet!


Just Right carbine. But I cannot recommend getting one this one has gone back to the factory multiple times and still jams at least once every ten shots. They refuse to refund my money. I hear the 9mm version works great but I wanted a 45acp. Cant wait for the new LWRC 45acp to come out.


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5988320 10/22/15 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Texaslawman
Originally Posted By: DocHorton
Originally Posted By: syncerus
Which .45 carbine was that?


x2. That thing is sweet!


Just Right carbine. But I cannot recommend getting one this one has gone back to the factory multiple times and still jams at least once every ten shots. They refuse to refund my money. I hear the 9mm version works great but I wanted a 45acp. Cant wait for the new LWRC 45acp to come out.


^^^^^^^
Hate to hear that. I liked the carbine as well. What do they think the cause of the Jam/Stoppage is?

Is the action Straight Blow Back?


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Re: what animals hear from suppressors part II [Re: Texaslawman] #5988728 10/22/15 02:05 PM
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Thanks for all the input fellows and particularly TLM for putting in the hard time to raise the discussion. We all benefit from this!

Good job!

cheers

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