texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Patriot7Six, ouachita, 96speed, Hayabusa1321, Precision90
67497 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 104,293
bill oxner 74,830
stxranchman 56,727
SnakeWrangler 54,064
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,452
BMD 41,091
Gravytrain 40,875
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics589,002
Posts11,099,879
Members82,497
Most Online19,184
Feb 5th, 2020
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one #5942617 09/23/15 04:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
Fixed power scopes were once all the rage in the deer hunting community. But like so many things, hunters bought into the added features of having a scope with adjustable magnification. While they do provide added benefits, they can also lead the shooter astray from good shooting practices.

I was reminded of this yesterday during a trip to the range. I just happened to have the scope turned up to its highest setting, which many shooters might prefer since it provides a more close-up image of the paper target. While the groups were okay at best, they really tightened up once I turned down the magnification. Why so? I would equate it to keeping your car centered between the painted lines on a highway. While the lines appear closer if you don't look farther down the highway, your motor skills cause you to overcompensate to the slightest drift of the car between the lines. Focus your attention farther down the road, and you will stay centered more easily between the lines.

Still, many would argue the highest setting is best when shooting at a deer.

I prefer a 6X setting on my 3X9 scope. It seems to offer the best combination of image and accuracy.


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942623 09/23/15 04:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 34,512
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 34,512
I think it depends.

If body shooting I typically use a lower power. On the other hand I was raised as a neck/head shooter and while you could, I prefer to have a little more magnification for such. With my 3x9 I shoot best at 100 yards on 9 power. With my 4x16 I do best at about 12.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942629 09/23/15 04:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
At 100 yards, I can shoot groups with a 2X red dot that are just as tight as shooting with a higher powered scope.

If you're someone who always shoots with your scope at a higher setting, I challenge you to try a much lower setting just to compare the results.


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942663 09/23/15 04:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,604
fouzman Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,604
I seldom ever shoot at deer on the highest magnification. I always use the highest magnification when shooting paper, so long as lighting conditions allow for it. If light is less than ideal, a lower magnification setting is required for a clear sight picture. Texas Dan, I would be very surprised if you can consistently shoot tighter groups at a lower power setting, assuming your gun is parallax error free at 100 yards and your eyepiece is properly focused.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942681 09/23/15 04:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 413
T
TiggerV Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
T
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 413
I've been using a 3x9 variable powered scope for years. I "hunt" and shoot with it at about 5x since nearly all of our shots are in the 100 to 150yrd range.

Only time I crank it up is if I am spotting things out in the distance or just want to obseve a deer in detail. I should use a spotting scope or better binocs for that, i Know. All i have is a cheap set of binocs though.

Only time I ever shot a deer with it at full power was a deer I shot at close to 400 yards, and I had no clue it was out there that far. While I know the gun I use can do it it, with my skills, it was more an accident that I hit it.....

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: fouzman] #5942733 09/23/15 05:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
Originally Posted By: fouzman
Texas Dan, I would be very surprised if you can consistently shoot tighter groups at a lower power setting, assuming your gun is parallax error free at 100 yards and your eyepiece is properly focused.


Again, I find that I hold the rifle more steady at a lower power setting since I'm not constantly trying to avoid the "wiggle" that becomes more noticeable at a higher power setting.

Perhaps the difference comes into play when a more solid rest is being used to control rifle movement. The rest provides a greater amount of control than is achievable by the shooter. Without a more solid rest, the shooter does better with a smaller sight picture that creates less wiggle to impact muscle movements, much like the driver who focuses farther down the highway when driving.


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942734 09/23/15 05:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,083
M
maximum Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
M
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,083
if it weren't for having to carefully
study a rack to make sure of legality,
i likely wouldn't use scopes. about 90% +
of my shots have been 100yds or under and
are easily made with irons.
i'll agree with the durability of fixed
power scopes. my .444 ate 2 scopes before
i put a fixed 4 power on it.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: maximum] #5942752 09/23/15 05:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
Originally Posted By: maximum
if it weren't for having to carefully
study a rack to make sure of legality,
i likely wouldn't use scopes. about 90% +
of my shots have been 100yds or under and
are easily made with irons.
i'll agree with the durability of fixed
power scopes. my .444 ate 2 scopes before
i put a fixed 4 power on it.


I tried open sights after purchasing a 30-30 lever gun before last season. I soon found my vision, being both middle-aged and nearsighted, was such that I could not focus clearly on the sights when wearing corrective lenses. That's when I found a red dot sight to be the perfect solution. I suspect many middle-aged and older shooters who require reading glasses have the same problem.


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5942968 09/23/15 07:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,145
E
Erathkid Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
E
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 19,145
Most every deer I shoot, I use 9x. Much better focus for old eyes. Works much better for me.


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Erathkid] #5942977 09/23/15 07:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
C
clandr1 Offline
Outdoorsman
Offline
Outdoorsman
C
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 97
First focal plane is a must if you're going to have a variable power scope with a MIL reticle. I've seen a few guys wonder why their drop/windage was off at different magnifications. Also, the higher your zoom level, the less light is transmitted. Typically you're better off using lower magnification at dawn/dusk so you get a clearer, brighter sight picture.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: clandr1] #5943100 09/23/15 09:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
Originally Posted By: clandr1
Also, the higher your zoom level, the less light is transmitted. Typically you're better off using lower magnification at dawn/dusk so you get a clearer, brighter sight picture.


That could easily lead to a separate discussion with much debate.

I've never been one to use a scope to make up for what my eyes cannot see in low light conditions. IMO, some guys really stretch this to the extreme. It's a good way to make costly or even dangerous mistakes.

When it gets too dark to see safely with the naked eye, I give the deer their due and head back to camp.


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5943126 09/23/15 09:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 34,512
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 34,512
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: clandr1
Also, the higher your zoom level, the less light is transmitted. Typically you're better off using lower magnification at dawn/dusk so you get a clearer, brighter sight picture.


That could easily lead to a separate discussion with much debate.

I've never been one to use a scope to make up for what my eyes cannot see in low light conditions. IMO, some guys really stretch this to the extreme. It's a good way to make costly or even dangerous mistakes.

When it gets too dark to see safely with the naked eye, I give the deer their due and head back to camp.


I give the deer their due and follow the law and cut off at legal shooting hours, but ive shot numerous hogs at night with a scoped rifle and no flashlight. 1/4+ moon, no cloud cover, and an elevated stand and you can shoot almost all night long.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5943133 09/23/15 09:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,571
C
ckat Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
C
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,571
My variables stay on 6x when hunting. I am continually on the hunt for quality, used fixed-power scopes... I like 6x the best, nice compromise between magnification and field of view.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5943909 09/24/15 11:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 113
P
Pinky3169 Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
P
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 113
Higher magnification causes you to see your "wobble" area more pronounced... By turning the magnification down, you won't see this "wobble" area as much.... The tendency, when on high magnification is to try to "ambush" the target, by waiting until the cross-hairs are moving across the intended target and jerking the heck out of the trigger.. I see it every class I teach.. The key is to get comfortable with the movement. You're not moving as much as you think. Press through the wobble.. Unless you put your gun in a rest, bagged in and step away from the gun; it will never be steady. Heart beat can be see in the scope from merely touching the rifle. It all boils down to practice. Some of us will never shoot our rifle until deer season is upon us and we go check zero... Just my 2 cents....

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5944112 09/24/15 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 738
M
mreed Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
M
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 738
I have an old 30-06 with a fixed 4 power scope on it and an open sight 30-30 that I like to get out ever so often and go shoot just to make sure I can still do the job without the crutch of a high powered scope


"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5944480 09/24/15 05:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 15
T
Teamvit Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 15
Buying a good scope with adjustable parallax will keep your groups small at all magnification levels

Last edited by Teamvit; 09/24/15 05:13 PM.
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5945548 09/25/15 04:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
T
Texas Dan Online Content OP
THF Celebrity
OP Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 17,841
"When I started to use moderate, fixed power scopes on my deer rifles I discovered that they shot just as accurately at normal ranges as they did with higher power scopes. In some cases, they shot better. Some of my best 100 yard groups have come from rifles wearing 4x scopes. I'll admit that it came as something of a surprise, but seeing is believing and from what I saw I'd not hesitate to shoot at a deer 250 yards (or even a bit more) distant with one of these rifles. No less an authority than Jack O'Connor, the Dean of gun writers, stated categorically that a four power scope was all that was needed for 300 yard shots at any big game animal."

http://www.chuckhawks.com/thoughts_scopes.htm


Dan

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5945560 09/25/15 04:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,595
G
grout-scout Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
G
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,595
Here's a thought. Use what you want and don't preach to others about what works for you if you don't agree with them. You wobble just as much on 9x as you do on 3x, the magnification isn't making you wobble.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5945630 09/25/15 10:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 25,141
J
JCB Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 25,141
Don't think I have ever met anyone whos groups got tighter with less magnification. Then again I have never met Dan either. LOL.

Dan if what you say were the norm most bench rest guys would be using fixed 4X or something along those lines. Doubt you will find many of those at any competition.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5945634 09/25/15 10:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,177
D
DH3 Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
D
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,177
I don't pay much attention to my scope setting. At the range or in my blinds, I always have a solid rest. I have a couple of rifles with Leopold 4X scopes and a couple with 6 X 24 scopes. The deer (or me) cannot tell the difference.


Old age and treachery beats youth and stupid every time!
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5946036 09/25/15 03:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,201
C
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,201
I hunt with my deer rifles on about 4 power, and crank up the mag if I have time on a more precise shot. If you get a coyote running through, it's near impossible to shoot him on the move at 10x or 12x power. On 4 power, you can pick him up and make the shot on 3x-4x. When you have time to make a more precise shot, you can easily have time to dial up more magnification. But you don't have time to dial down when you need to make the shot RTFN.



Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5946961 09/26/15 12:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 32,115
F
FiremanJG Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
F
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 32,115
There is not a thing wrong with a variable scope. When I am on the move, and when the rifle is stored in the scabbard, the seat of the truck, sitting on the ground beside me, ect. the variable power scope is turned down as low as it will go. Lower magnification provides faster target aquisition and larger field of view. In contrast, higher magnification provides a more precise aim. I zeroed a rifle at 100 yards today, and shot steeo at 800. On both counts I was on maximum magnification. There is no way I could shoot as tight as I did on both distances with a fixed 4X.

When I am less that steady I do want less magnification. So when I shoot from kneeling I will tyoically go to 8X to 12X depending on target distance. Sure it is a learned and practiced skill to shoot less than steady on 8X to 12X, but that creates forgiveness in the wobble compared to 21X.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5947050 09/26/15 01:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
6
6.5x47Lapua Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
6
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 525
Back in the 90's, Schmidt & Bender made a dirt simple PM11. It was a fixed power 6x42, fixed parallax, mildot reticle, and 12 mil knobs.

Sure wish they would bring that scope back. Maybe throw in a klein reticle, and a lifetime warranty. If I were completely spoiled, that PM11 would have a capped windage knob.

As always, field of view is paramount, and simplicity is key.

Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5947134 09/26/15 02:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12,543
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 12,543
I shot my second-best buck in 2009 at about 180 yards. My scope at the time was a 4-12. He was locked up with a doe so I had time, and I moved the scope from 6 up to 12. When I refocused on the deer, I found there was a tiny little sumac branch covering part of his vitals. I never saw that on 6 and it was probable I would have hit it. It was directly between us at about 100 yards, and had I hit it most likely there would have been enough deflection to either miss the deer or wound but not kill him. With the extra magnification not only did I see the branch, I was able to maneuver and get a clear shot.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Why fixed power scores still work well, if you can find one [Re: Texas Dan] #5947905 09/26/15 09:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,680
6
603Country Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,680
I phased out the last fixed power scope about 2 years ago. Sure, they work fine, but there are better options available.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3